XEDE vs CPE EMS

[Captain KRM P5]

You know what I want.... KEn....Jordan?


I wanna use my Nintedo DS with an EMS, so I can "draw" my fuel map damn it LOL (headbang)

or at least use the stylus to make easier changes..... any chance on you guys making it happen?

(kinda like that DTEC or whatever with the gamboy advance sp) ????

haha you are persistent sir, i grant you that. there are revisions underway for the XEDE unit, however i do not think DS support is one of them

 

[Koenig]

haha you are persistent sir, i grant you that. there are revisions underway for the XEDE unit, however i do not think DS support is one of them

Any chance you can tell me what I need to know to start my own fabricating?

I do know computer programming....... is it possible for me to some how get ahold of the XEDE info so I can make it work with the DS interface?

(I've already hacked my DS and PSP)



I could make it work for EVERYONE....WOOOO HOOO (rockon)

or at least you could just look into DS support as one of the revisions?

That would definitely seal it for me.....

notebooks = large and clunky
Nintendo DS = hides away in my center console (group)


wouldn't really have to be "draw" my fuel map (Although I wish!) but more along the lines of being able to easily make changes, kind of like the DTEC with the Advance SP, but using the stylus to select changes instead of moving the keypad around to highlight and change things.

 

[gsrtype1]

the exede is 1,000 how much is the cpe, that makes a diff, but i don't want any cel' lights like the capt. was saying .. maybe exede is a little more experianced(bicker) who knows we need unbiased dyno and real world tests

 

[forrestang]

now, we are one of the few companies with first hand views and experience of both systems in action on this particular vehicle. i'd say we are the only company to have direct experience tuning both of these systems on this particular vehicle honestly. my brother spent some time tuning the CPE system and i'll let him chime in if he wants to. He was impressed with the feature set of the system as it sits right now. Something that bothered him, and I'll admit bothers me, is that the car would throw check engine lights and try to revert/override if trying to tune outside of aggressive acceleration. I do not know if this is typical of the system or perhaps an error made in install. Otherwise, tuning was smooth and easy and changes were noticable on both driving and instrumentation. We've been trying to get more time with the system and I know the owner is itching for dyno time as well.

So you guys will be able to say that you've got two cars with two different EMS's on them, and you've tuned them both.

Should be good for the community.

IIRC, you'll have two cars with two big turbos with the engine management systems, so you guys should be able to get at least one of them to make some good power!!!

It really would be awesome if we could get both of those cars to that dyno on the 7th? Is it looking like we can get at least 5 cars there?

 

[Koenig]

hey ken can you elaborate on what you were talking about with you and your brother saying that the car would throw CELs and revert/override when trying to tune outside aggressive acceleration?

Give me a better example? like what you were trying to tune and what the result was, that makes you feel that opinion.

 

[RevLimitLaunch]

the exede is 1,000 how much is the cpe, that makes a diff, but i don't want any cel' lights like the capt. was saying .. maybe exede is a little more experianced(bicker) who knows we need unbiased dyno and real world tests

cpe is only 600

 

[Chris-BE]

The CPE Standback is light years better then the XEDE system. No doubt about it!

 

[Captain KRM P5]

oh yeah and heres a link to my guy musoms dyno results with the standback and a fmic...looks like me and him pretty much have the same numbers....so do some research before you post...(gtfo)
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3207597#post3207597

and see, this is the kind of thing that can work two ways; fans of the XEDE can say that jason got as much or even more power with less money spent, less time spent and less mods put into the car and fans of CP-E can say that musom's car just needs to be tweaked. there is a difference between being a fan and being a fanatic. not one fact is out there, proven or otherwise, that says one system is "light years ahead of the other."

as for my concerns i voiced above, i'll see if Aric wants to chime in on this thread with his thoughts on tuning the standback. he is a member of the forums and i'd rather have him go into greater detail than misconstrue his thoughts.

 

[Koenig]

I'll prove which one is better.......give me one of each and i'll put both on the car, one after the other and the best tunes out there and then i'll go to the track and see what's up

LOL

Ok maybe that won't REALLY happen, but if anyone has access to both should try that........the best tune with the Standback and the XEDE on cars with the same bolt on parts...... nice

 

[www.cp-e.com]

I would like to see the CEL issue ironed out if possible.

Thanks for being so professional about all of this Ken. We asked you to honestly represent both products and it looks like you've done just that, so we really appreciate your dedication to delivering an unbiased account of both products' peformance.

Regarding the CEL issue, what I think happened is that you tried to make changes to the map in closed-loop operation. This would explain the CEL, and why the car was overriding the changes you were making. During closed loop operation the car is going to try to hit a target air/fuel ratio, and anytime you try to deviate from that air/fuel ratio the car will (try to) correct the error. Of course I wasn't there so I can't say for sure, but that's my best guess with the information you've provided. In order to make changes while in closed loop you'll either need to 'fool' the oxygen sensor or use some kind of stand-alone system.


Jordan

 

[Karma_hunden]

forget about piggybacks..those are old school. Buy the ALL NEW KARMA direct boost controller. It comes with a hose connected to the turbo that goes all the way to you. Add your own psi's by just blowing on it. Good if you have a girl companion, she will practice good and make your car faster! BUY NOW!!! TIMES RUNNING OUT!!!





























full efficiency not guaranteed...monoxide inhalance might result fatal to user.

 

[Chris-BE]

Yeah and you know this because you also have a xede system on your car to right?....Me and forrestang have the same turbo kit and same tmic so when my turbo is installed and his is tuned well know then. My bet...theyll both be pretty much the same
oh yeah and heres a link to my guy musoms dyno results with the standback and a fmic...looks like me and him pretty much have the same numbers....so do some research before you post...(gtfo)
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3207597#post3207597

So I need to do some research?

Easy there kid. I based my opinion on what I know, and on what I have experienced. The first rate service given by CP-E is a major factor in my selection. The fact that it worked just great on the first try, (unlike some XEDE users I read about) is on par with their QUALITY WORK. The instructions are amazingly clear, easy, and with geat pictures.

Beside the fact that your argument is based on PURE SPECULATION. You don't have the same exhaust, don't have the same turbo.

Are your dyno numbers from the same dyno? Same day? Did you do a before/after dyno run that showed the gains you received from your modifications? If you can't show me before and after dyno runs with and with-out the mods then your argument lacks any credibility.

Do I need to go over the features or should I say NON features of the XEDE compared to the CP-E Standback? How easy is it to change the boost settings on the fly? Can you tune by using the fuel settings, or just by the MAF? Can you tune to allow VTA with a SIMPLE map change? Can you call the good folks that designed and make the XEDE directly any day of the week? Not a reseller! (You can at CP-E btw.)

Do you have the CP-E Standback? Oh you better do some research then.

 

[Captain KRM P5]

Thanks for being so professional about all of this Ken. We asked you to honestly represent both products and it looks like you've done just that, so we really appreciate your dedication to delivering an unbiased account of both products' peformance.

In order to make changes while in closed loop you'll either need to 'fool' the oxygen sensor or use some kind of stand-alone system.

i gave you my word that i would fairly and accurately represent the product. now you and josh just need to get back to me about some other business stuff

as for the closed loop override, i would normally agree however we have not encountered that so far on the XEDE. again, that could be any number of things and not representative of either product in either way.

 

[jcgemt2003]

So I need to do some research? I'm a dumbass?

Easy there kid. I based my opinion on what I know, and on what I have experienced. The first rate service given by CP-E is a major factor in my selection. The fact that it worked just great on the first try, (unlike some XEDE users I read about) is on par with their QUALITY WORK. The instructions are amazingly clear, easy, and with geat pictures.

Beside the fact that your argument is based on PURE SPECULATION. You don't have the same exhaust, don't have the same turbo.

Are your dyno numbers from the same dyno? Same day? Did you do a before/after dyno run that showed the gains you received from your modifications? If you can't show me before and after dyno runs with and with-out the mods then your argument lacks any credibility.



Do I need to go over the features or should I say NON features of the XEDE compared to the CP-E Standback? How easy is it to change the boost settings on the fly? Can you tune by using the fuel settings, or just by the MAF? Can you tune to allow VTA with a SIMPLE map change? Can you call the good folks that designed and make the XEDE directly any day of the week? Not a reseller! (You can at CP-E btw.)

Do you have the CP-E Standback? Oh you better do some research then.

Feel free to insert more child like smiley faces in your next argument, it really makes your thoughts more compelling.

b**** Im 30 so watch who your calling kid...your the one who said that the standback is light years ahead.that sounds like speculation if I ever heard it ..Ive seen both in person have you? I have a crush bent catback exhaust and a cpe cold air intake with a cpe hks blowoff valve..and the ets tmic...he has the full cpe setup....we make the same numbers...yes your fukn dumbass...I believe that the customer service I recieved from both ken and cpe are both pretty much equall....I like them both actually...Who gives to s**** about vta or recirt....oh and YES I CAN change my boost on the fly....So theres one actual thing that the cpe ems can do that xede cant...OH YEAH AND HERE YOU GO (chair) More child like smiley faces that everyone uses but you because your how old?
Just how many people have problem with there Xede on there speed6? As far as I knew theres been only 2 people with it on there car....Me and 4drhtrd...hmmm...so that make 1...dumbass. Oh yeah and the only problem he had with his was that he couldnt add any more fuel because he maxed out the maf. But you would know that if you did some research.(screwy) (breakn) (pissed) :mad: (nana) (hi)
(first) (poke) (outie) I personally think they both do what there supposed to do...not one any better than the other...If one was really better than we'd see bigger gains from one and not the other....the objective is to control fuel, boost and timing....seems to me they both do that...So as far as Im concerned you dont know your dick from your elbow..I dont care if you do test drive cars...so in closing....
ITS NOT THE SYSTEM ITS THE TUNER

 

[Koenig]

b**** Im 30 so watch who your calling kid...your the one who said that the standback is light years ahead.that sounds like speculation if I ever heard it ..Ive seen both in person have you? I have a crush bent catback exhaust and a cpe cold air intake with a cpe hks blowoff valve..and the ets tmic...he has the full cpe setup....we make the same numbers...yes your fukn dumbass...I believe that the customer service I recieved from both ken and cpe are both pretty much equall....I like them both actually...Who gives to s**** about vta or recirt....oh and YES I CAN change my boost on the fly....So theres one actual thing that the cpe ems can do that xede cant...OH YEAH AND HERE YOU GO (chair) More child like smiley faces that everyone uses but you because your how old?
Just how many people have problem with there Xede on there speed6? As far as I knew theres been only 2 people with it on there car....Me and 4drhtrd...hmmm...so that make 1...dumbass. Oh yeah and the only problem he had with his was that he couldnt add any more fuel because he maxed out the maf. But you would know that if you did some research.(screwy) (breakn) (pissed) :mad: (nana) (hi)
(first) (poke) (outie) I personally think they both do what there supposed to do...not one any better than the other...If one was really better than we'd see bigger gains from one and not the other....the objective is to control fuel, boost and timing....seems to me they both do that...So as far as Im concerned you dont know your dick from your elbow..I dont care if you do test drive cars...so in closing....
ITS NOT THE SYSTEM ITS THE TUNER

Although It's not my arguement I didn't know 30 yr olds used that kind of language....

OH BTW both of your arguements are pointless.......yes that's right..... pointless....... it wouldn't matter if XEDE was far better than CPE, there are still going to be people who prefer the tunability of the CPE and those who prefer XEDE......... do us all a favor and STFU and stop arguing so those of us don't have to read your posts thinking it might have information on helping to choose which EMS we might want to buy....

I have yet to buy an EMS and neither of you douche bags are helping further my decision towards either product with viable info.......... (bicker)

 

[RevLimitLaunch]

Although It's not my arguement I didn't know 30 yr olds used that kind of language....

OH BTW both of your arguements are pointless.......yes that's right..... pointless....... it wouldn't matter if XEDE was far better than CPE, there are still going to be people who prefer the tunability of the CPE and those who prefer XEDE......... do us all a favor and STFU and stop arguing so those of us don't have to read your posts thinking it might have information on helping to choose which EMS we might want to buy....

I have yet to buy an EMS and neither of you douche bags are helping further my decision towards either product with viable info.......... (bicker)

+1 to the crap; on another note, i'm more or less biased to whoever comes out with pnp first lol.

 

[Killer]

b**** Im 30 so watch who your calling kid...your the one who said that the standback is light years ahead.that sounds like speculation if I ever heard it ..Ive seen both in person have you? I have a crush bent catback exhaust and a cpe cold air intake with a cpe hks blowoff valve..and the ets tmic...he has the full cpe setup....we make the same numbers...yes your fukn dumbass...I believe that the customer service I recieved from both ken and cpe are both pretty much equall....I like them both actually...Who gives to s**** about vta or recirt....oh and YES I CAN change my boost on the fly....So theres one actual thing that the cpe ems can do that xede cant...OH YEAH AND HERE YOU GO (chair) More child like smiley faces that everyone uses but you because your how old?
Just how many people have problem with there Xede on there speed6? As far as I knew theres been only 2 people with it on there car....Me and 4drhtrd...hmmm...so that make 1...dumbass. Oh yeah and the only problem he had with his was that he couldnt add any more fuel because he maxed out the maf. But you would know that if you did some research.(screwy) (breakn) (pissed) :mad: (nana) (hi)
(first) (poke) (outie) I personally think they both do what there supposed to do...not one any better than the other...If one was really better than we'd see bigger gains from one and not the other....the objective is to control fuel, boost and timing....seems to me they both do that...So as far as Im concerned you dont know your dick from your elbow..I dont care if you do test drive cars...so in closing....
ITS NOT THE SYSTEM ITS THE TUNER

any more posts like this and you may not be here that long. Capeche?

 

[Killer]

and for the others...PLEASE keep this a civil debate.

 

[Captain KRM P5]

and for the others...PLEASE keep this a civil debate.

that has been both my and jordan's intent from the outset.

 

[cherryspeed]

This a very interesting thread sprinkled with some pretty silly name calling and immaturity.
Everybody needs to calm down a bit, afterall we are all on the same damn team!
The bottom line is that the CPE is the first, and only, ems designed with the 2.3 mzr engine as it's specified target. I have seen this unit working in person, and have followed it's development very closely. There is a tremendous amount of potential there for subsequent versions to deal with some of the specific issues we have with this engine and ecu: items like throttle position and direct injection. I have no doubt, given some time (ok it's cpe, so maybe a year...lol) that the standback will be running circles around other, more generic tuning options.
And it would be hard to argue that the fuel pressure method of controlling fc is more appropriate for our disi engines for extracting the absolute most power vs maf clamp.
I am sure CPE has plans to develop this unit for many other vehicles (can you say 335i), but the bottom line is that they are using our engine for the development of this unit. This means we are getting all the great info and improvments, plus all the benefits of first rate customer service, directly from the MANUFACTURER.
That said I have absolutely nothing against the XEDE or DTEC options for our car. I have had fantastic results with my dtec, and am very impressed with the results of the xede on the car from Ken. My car, as well as that one, are currently devolping higher gains than vehicles with a complete CPE set up.
The issue comes into play when you start factoring in things like fuel cut, maf voltage, direct injection and throttle position. These are the areas where a specified ems will be able to shine. Will it create a huge hp gain over the more generic units, probably not. It may, however, allow the car to have a smoother power delivery and less issues with fuel cut and pressure. IE: it will more than likely make it easier for the end user to extract a very impressive increase in usable, safe hp

I would be very interested to see these side by side results. Hopefully you and your brother can get together and share with the rest of us what you have experienced. It would be a great thing for the community.

And, as stated earlier which bears repeating,

It's not the ems...it's the person tuning it....lol