Why you should go AccessPort with any sort of mods

^ Yes.

You can complete that shift without hitting the rev limiter enough to induce any fuel or ignition cut. Start practicing with flat shifting at 5,500 rpm until you are quck enough to move up to 6,000. When Car and Driver magazine first tested an '07 MS3 the magazine testers were having trouble with launch technique. A Mazda engineer actually recommended flat shifting at the drag strip. They quoted him in the magazine "go ahead, it won't hurt it." And it didn't.

Flat shifting not only saves time at the dragstrip by speeding up the shift itself. In a turbo car, it helps keep the turbo "on boil" so to speak, so that boost stays up and you do not have spool it back up.
 
Thought I would post up my review "Hypertech vs. Cobb AP shoot out" I did on another forum for anyone still wondering about which way to go. I had both on my car and did a bunch of data logs with each and general drivability observations.

Ok got my maf calibrated and here are the Cobb pulls:
gears 2 to 4 (89 deg. ambient temp.)

Shootout Winner: Cobb AP

Shootout 2nd place: Hypertech tuner

The Ht is a nice conservative tune for those who don't feel comfortable tinkering with their tune. Basically flash and forget it. If you don't like to tinker or feel uncomfortable with tuning get the Hypertech tuner.

The Cobb AP won the shoot out for the following reasons:
1) pulls harder ( not running in the 9 AFR's )
2) ability to adjust throttle response (wild child or linear response)
3) ability to adjust the boost on a per gear basis (can limit the amount of torque in gear 1 and 2 to any amount)
4) ability to reduce spiking
5) ability to adjust the MAF calibration to get near zero LTFT's
6) ability to dial in your AFR's to where ever you feel safe with
7) ability to adjust the map for winter if necessary
8) too many other things to list that you can adjust IF need be
 
Perhaps ^ should have spent a bit more time looking back at how his HT actually functioned.

For instance,

1) pulls harder ( not running in the 9 AFR's )

I disagree. Pig rich AFR's with tapered boost allow HT to get really aggressive with timing advance, far more that AP OTS tunes and more than most AP custom tuners are using. This combination produces dyno results comparable to or better than all AP OTS tunes with comparable mods (even stage 2) on the stock KO4 and pump gas. The data logs and dyno charts are over on the other forum to prove this. AP is not better in this regard. You do NOT make more power on this DISI engine by leaning out AFR's. Instead, you lose the manufacture's intended cylinder cooling that keeps knock under check and allows the more aggressive timing advance that HT uses.

2) ability to adjust throttle response (wild child or linear response)

I disagree. Why adjust what does not need adjusting? HT's throttle response is much better than stock. It is noted for its smoothness. AP users are not heard to make that claim and frequently b**** about it the other way.

3) ability to adjust the boost on a per gear basis (can limit the amount of torque in gear 1 and 2 to any amount)

I disagree. Why would you want to do this? HT permits you to turn the 0-60 limitation on or eliminate it. Just like AP. Custom tuning of boost per gear seems very strange. I don't see anyone doing this nor any reason to do this by anyone on any of the boards. Sounds like a solution for a non-existent problem.

4) ability to reduce spiking

I disagree. HT, in fact does this. I was getting really bad boost spikes when running a catless dp/rp on stock tune. When I went with the HT tune, no only did I get the benefits of the tune, but it eliminated those 21-22 psi spikes allowing me to hit a steady 18-19 psi at WOT with a nice taper down at higher rpm as timing gets aggressive.
5) ability to adjust the MAF calibration to get near zero LTFT's

I disagree. That is also exactly what HT does with its large catalog of intake choices. Each intake choice has been pre-set for MAF correction. That's what they are intended to do and what they do. I get very, very accurate LTFT's just by selecting the intake choice that matches the intake I'm running. It's based on MAF housing size, shape and whether an air straightener is used.

6) ability to dial in your AFR's to where ever you feel safe with

Agree and disagree. Again, leaning out AFR's is NOT the way to make power. Yes, AP lets you adjust it. but HT has it right for all bolt on mods and stock K04 and pump gas. The key to making power on this car is to keep AFR's rich, expecially at high load high rpm conditions, taper boost and crank in as much as 18 degrees of timing advance. it works extremely well, and many AP custom tuners are begining to figure out this and that they really cannot improve much on HT's mapping for cars running stock K04 and pump gas.

7) ability to adjust the map for winter if necessary

Agree and disagree. If you are needing to adust the map for changes in weather, you are really not tuning properly. Again, if you use load tuning geared to the actual compressor map efficiencies of the K04, you can run 19 psi safely with relatively lean AFR's at low rpm, which both HT and AP allow. If you try to maintain that boost all the way to redline and maintain lean AFR's you will run into problems in cold weather. Why not simply taper the boost, richen the AFR's, stay in the compressor map efficiency of the little K04 and enjoy the year round power that comes from aggressive timing?

WINNER: HT. Safety. The real winner to me is HT because for our engines it is the winner. They survive. The do not blow.

There seem to be absolutely no, zero, nada, zip instances of HT induced zoom, zoom, boom, but a lot of AP tuning blow ups. I'll take 95-99% of what the engine can safely deliver on stock turbo and pump gas and know that it will be absolutely safe.

Now, in fairness:

There are some things that AP does better, but only when you depart from the stock K04 and pump gas situation. Once you go big turbo, or once you start messing with exotic fueling like E-85 blends, then AP is absolutely THE route to go.

Also, if you want a one step - tune and monitor solution, AP is better because it has built in monitoring and datalogging, although it cannot real time display more than just a few parameters. I preferred to buy separate and much more sophisticated monitoring software (ScanXL Pro with Mazda specific PID's). I can monitor everything for every sensor on the entire car simultaneiously and view as many of them as I want at any time. I do have to use a laptop computer for this. And the combination of my tune and monitoring is still cheaper than AP, and certainly well cheaper than paying someone for a questionable quality AP custom tune that might make me go Zoom, Zoom, Boom.
 
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MSMS3, you sound like a HT fanboi. I had both devices and ran both of them extensively back and forth and did a LOT of data logging. I did a lot of daily driving, city, highway and a lot of pulls on both products. I bought the HT to try it and since I already had the Cobb AP thought I would do a comparison for the other guys who might have had the same questions. I'm not bashing the HT and it does wake the car up and makes more power . However if you read my post I'm explaining the reasons why I personally liked (and still do) the Cobb AP. I'm not going to go over my list and debate you because I really could care less about doing that. The reasons I listed are all valid and true as measured by me on my car and with data logs. I really wanted to keep the HT but the more I compared it and for the reasons listed the CObb AP won the shootout.

PS. my testing was done using load based tuning on the AP. Now that Cobb has boost-based tuning perfected, the AP gets a couple more stars for smoothness and hitting and holding boost targets perfectly.
The Cobb definitely pulls harder and longer then the HT, there is no doubt about this. ANyone who has had both devices will agree with this (except fanbois)
 
My car pulled ahead of my good friend's MS3. He has an exhaust mani and ported intake mani over me. The rest of the mods are fairly even. He's PERM tuned on AP and I have HT.
 
Ugh... this ******* argument. I make more power with the same mods on a AP.

AP = Win. And infinitely adjustable.
 
My car pulled ahead of my good friend's MS3. He has an exhaust mani and ported intake mani over me. The rest of the mods are fairly even. He's PERM tuned on AP and I have HT.
crappy driver, crappy AP tune, boost leak, doesn't know how to shift ?????? hummm many possible reasons
 
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Flyrevs, maybe you could post up a good log for comparison? What did you use to log HT? Did you run those logs through Virtual Dyno? Just wondering.
 
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crappy driver, crappy AP tune, boost leak, doesn't know how to shift ?????? hummm many possible reasons

Or maybe HT worked better? I agree it might be a bad AP tune, seem to be a lot of them out there including almost universal condemnation of OTS maps. I don't have the time to learn the intracies of dozens of AP tables, the patience to avoid one tiny mistake in just one of them to avoid disaster, don't have the desire to pay someone else to mess with those tables who may know far less than he boasts, nor the desire to go through all of that for maybe 10 whp more than I get with absolute safety and a lot less money.

If I ever go big turbo or try E85 blends AP will be a part of that. Until then compared AP tunes are showing me no benefit over what I have.

Datalog post please?
 
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Flyrevs, what is the red text in your sig? Does that mean that you went zoom zoom boom on AP tune? Just curious about the red text.
 
Yes, it's a long story. Here is the short version. I took the car in for an oil change to the stealer (34K miles). Got home (20 miles) and it was smoking like a mofo. CHecked the oil and it was totally black, like it never got changed and 3+ qts. over filled. I think they never drained the oil and just added the new oil. Drained the oil and refilled it, about 1 week later I blew up on a trip to Virginia, I was not even in boost, maybe 3000 rpm driving like an old lady out of the plant and BOOM - rod through the side of the block. At the time I had a FMIC, test pipe, and Cobb AP running stage 2 map 18 psi. My data logs looked great and the car ran great. After the blowup I was taking the FMIC off and it was full of oil. So I gotta believe my blowup was dealer caused from being 3+ qts overfilled. The stealer claimed I was racing it, but they were full of crap as I was not. I got it covered under warrantee.

ps. Sorry I no longer have the data logs, they were on my old webserver that I let expire - never pulled the files off.
 
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Or maybe HT worked better? I agree it might be a bad AP tune, seem to be a lot of them out there including almost universal condemnation of OTS maps. I don't have the time to learn the intracies of dozens of AP tables, the patience to avoid one tiny mistake in just one of them to avoid disaster, don't have the desire to pay someone else to mess with those tables who may know far less than he boasts, nor the desire to go through all of that for maybe 10 whp more than I get with absolute safety and a lot less money.

If I ever go big turbo or try E85 blends AP will be a part of that. Until then compared AP tunes are showing me no benefit over what I have.

Datalog post please?
You are correct, for flash and forget the HT wins hands down. I like to tinker and already had an AP and knew how to use it, so the HT seemed limited compared to the AP. If I had the HT first, I probably would not have bought the AP. Really they are both good products just for different types of car enthusists.
 
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What happened to you probably would have happened is you were completely stock. So sorry, but Mazda stepped up and made it right. I hate dealers for that reason. Have never taken mine back for anything in 68,000 miles.

No current data logs, or did you sell the car, change mods or something?

AP is a powerful and useful tool. But for those us on stock turbo and pump gas it offers very little improvement over HT but commands great attention to detail to prevent disaster. I do not have the time or inclination to devote.
 
Plausible deniability, bro.

I think this should be the definitive post of this thread.

There's nothing wrong with the Hypertech. I owned one, did really give me what I was looking for.

I now own an AccessPort. YOU WILL MAKE MORE POWER IF YOU KNOW HOW TO TUNE WITH AN AP EVERY. SINGLE TIME.

It's not about what the AP can do, it's unfortunately about what the HT can't do. And that's really above adjusting idle and restrictor in the 1st few gears, that's just about everything elese. And that's why I switched. More power, and the option. I may never use the AP to it's fullest ability, but I have the option. And that's more than enough for me.
 
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No current data logs, or did you sell the car, change mods or something?
I was referring to the data logs I had posted when I was doing the HT / AP shootout, these are gone now. I still have the car, motor #2 is running great, my mods are in my signature.
 
i gotta agree with ^Domino81^ i ran a HT for over a year and was very pleased with the results, car ran great while on the HT Tune. so i have no complaints against the HT and it was a great start. i just recently sold the HT and bought a Cobb AP, the OTS maps felt better right away and the car ran stronger, but none of the OTS maps fit my exact mod list so ive since done tons of data logging and have been working with Dizzy Tuning getting custom maps and the car is a freakin monster now compared to what it was with the HT Tune or the Cobb OTS tune. Having the proper tune to support your mods has never been more apparent with me until now. So if you have gone beyond the basic bolts ons and want to get the best out of what you have the AP is the answer.
 
MSMS3, you sound like a HT fanboi. I had both devices and ran both of them extensively back and forth and did a LOT of data logging. I did a lot of daily driving, city, highway and a lot of pulls on both products. I bought the HT to try it and since I already had the Cobb AP thought I would do a comparison for the other guys who might have had the same questions. I'm not bashing the HT and it does wake the car up and makes more power . However if you read my post I'm explaining the reasons why I personally liked (and still do) the Cobb AP. I'm not going to go over my list and debate you because I really could care less about doing that. The reasons I listed are all valid and true as measured by me on my car and with data logs. I really wanted to keep the HT but the more I compared it and for the reasons listed the CObb AP won the shootout.

PS. my testing was done using load based tuning on the AP. Now that Cobb has boost-based tuning perfected, the AP gets a couple more stars for smoothness and hitting and holding boost targets perfectly.
The Cobb definitely pulls harder and longer then the HT, there is no doubt about this. ANyone who has had both devices will agree with this (except fanbois)

It would be interesting to see a comparison of exhaust gas temperatures and pre-intercooler air temperatures between your Cobb tune and the Hypertech tune. Both of these readings would be criticle indicators of how safe the Cobb tune was for your engine and turbo.

Chris
 
No "fanboi" here. I don't think I have two mods from the same company. My decisions are data driven, and I have objection to subjective terms like "pulls harder". Post up data logs and compare. I would bet that many people are not even logging their calculated EGT's. It is fact based on the documented experience of failed K04's on 18 psi boost out past 6000 rpm with lean AFR's that when EGT's consistently exceed 1500-1550 degrees F. the tune becomes unsafe.

With my mods I'm hitting 1510 catless. I do not think it prudent to have a hotter tune on this engine. Hitting 300-310 whp is good enough for me and very close to the upper safe limit for this car with stock turbo on pump gas.
 
i gotta agree with ^Domino81^ i ran a HT for over a year and was very pleased with the results, car ran great while on the HT Tune. so i have no complaints against the HT and it was a great start. i just recently sold the HT and bought a Cobb AP, the OTS maps felt better right away and the car ran stronger, but none of the OTS maps fit my exact mod list so ive since done tons of data logging and have been working with Dizzy Tuning getting custom maps and the car is a freakin monster now compared to what it was with the HT Tune or the Cobb OTS tune. Having the proper tune to support your mods has never been more apparent with me until now. So if you have gone beyond the basic bolts ons and want to get the best out of what you have the AP is the answer.

It would be interesting to see some datalogs of exhaust gas temps and pre-intercooler air temps with your custom tune. Both would be a good measurement of how safe the tunes are for your engine and turbo.
 
Data Log Info

i attached my most recent datalog which is also associated with the virtual dyno graph. but my datalog doesnt have the exhaust temp....i can add it.
 

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