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STX Build Thread
- Thread starter 122 Vega
- Start date
xelderx said:Looking forward to this Vega. Does the ABS have to remain active or are you planning on pulling the fuse? I'm hoping the Carbotechs front and rear don't give you too much rear bias. Something else you need to do...drill the s*** out of some brake rotors. You can save like 3lbs per wheel like that.
14.6
D. Original equipment ABS braking systems may be electrically disabled, but may not be removed or altered in any other way.
Only drill the s*** out of the rotors if it is an autox only set of rotors it is not worth it on a daily driven car IMO.
BigB said:For EMS we are running Hondata OBD1 chip in a stock housing for a OBDII car... 180WHP...
In my STS Sentra SE-R I have a daughterboard that does everything you said cannot be done. It alters ignition timing and duty cycle all of which is legal as long as it is in stock housing.
ST does build upon SP rules and IT rules. You have to choose which path to take for your car. You can either build to SP specs or IT specs.
I will copy your post to the ST forums and we'll see where it goes, I fully believe that this is not allowed. ST does not build upon SP rules, otherwise I could change to an FMIC, sheet metal intake, larrge injectors, standalone, run no cat, port the head 1" from the face etc. This is not allowed in STX.
"14. The Street Touring category of vehicle modifications is meant to fit between the current Stock and Street Prepared categories.
14.1 Authorized Modifications - STS
A. All SOLO 2 Rules Stock Category allowances, plus allowances contained in 14.1 through 14.10"
No mention of Street Prepared rules being allowed.
Altering duty cycle is allowed IF the ECU does it by modifying incoming MAF or MAP signals. You cannot run the injectors directly from the aftermarket ECU.
You also are allowed only to alter timing on vehicles with "Factory adjustable distributor ignition systems." If you can loosen your distributor and advance the timing, then you can, but the distributor is not adjustable on coil on wire systems therefore making ignition timing illegal
intake's not illegal, it's legal so long as you don't need to move anything around in the engine bay. In the case of the protege, you need to move the rad overflow bottle, which gives you like 15 extra hp in itself lol. Just a weird technicality...
Moving the overflow bottle is considered "altering the chassis of the vehicle" and therefore illegal. If SP rules were allowed, I could change the radiator and the overflow bottle and put the filter behingd the grille.
Britt
Britt
122 Vega said:I will copy your post to the ST forums and we'll see where it goes, I fully believe that this is not allowed. ST does not build upon SP rules, otherwise I could change to an FMIC, sheet metal intake, larrge injectors, standalone, run no cat, port the head 1" from the face etc. This is not allowed in STX.
"14. The Street Touring category of vehicle modifications is meant to fit between the current Stock and Street Prepared categories.
14.1 Authorized Modifications - STS
A. All SOLO 2 Rules Stock Category allowances, plus allowances contained in 14.1 through 14.10"
No mention of Street Prepared rules being allowed.
Altering duty cycle is allowed IF the ECU does it by modifying incoming MAF or MAP signals. You cannot run the injectors directly from the aftermarket ECU.
You also are allowed only to alter timing on vehicles with "Factory adjustable distributor ignition systems." If you can loosen your distributor and advance the timing, then you can, but the distributor is not adjustable on coil on wire systems therefore making ignition timing illegal
Sorry... you are partially correct about SP.. what I should have said is... if your taking your car from ST to SP it can be done 1 of 2 ways... staying in the ST ruleset and going from there, or building to the IT ruleset.
Well.. on my SE-R the daughterboard replaces the stock ignition/fuel map with a custom one. I have a distributor on my car, as do all SR20s. These are completely legal ECU upgrades. It is a stock ECU with a daughterboard that allows changing the programs with a simple ROM flash. This is also an OBDI car.
When you said you cannot alter timing and duty cycle you were wrong and you have proven yourself that you were misleading.
122 Vega said:Moving the overflow bottle is considered "altering the chassis of the vehicle" and therefore illegal. If SP rules were allowed, I could change the radiator and the overflow bottle and put the filter behingd the grille.
Britt
moving, i read this to mean relocating. I don't know how much room you have but technically couldn't you keep the bottle in the same general area and zip tie it down to the intake housing or something else in the engine bay?
It is a stock ECU with a daughterboard that allows changing the programs with a simple ROM flash. This is also an OBDI car.
When you said you cannot alter timing and duty cycle you were wrong and you have proven yourself that you were misleading.
I'm not sure how I was misleading, but the duty cycle is altered by way of altering incoming sensor signals, not by directly driving the injectors with alternate drivers. Reflashes and EPROMS are legal, but we are discussing the MSP in STX, where neither of these mods exist.
So as I reread the rules you are right, you are completely legal, but, this is not applicable to the MSP.
Britt
I assume "factory adjustable distributor systems" to mean one that can be altered by moving the distributor. I would be interested in seeing the Factory service manual for your car to see if the section that shows alteration of ignition timing includes reprogramming of the ECU. I am referring to cars which specifically have adjustments at the distributor, like Miatas, Neons and most Toyotas.
Britt
Britt
moxnix said:14.6
D. Original equipment ABS braking systems may be electrically disabled, but may not be removed or altered in any other way.
Only drill the s*** out of the rotors if it is an autox only set of rotors it is not worth it on a daily driven car IMO.
Thanks for the clarification. And yes...get an extra set of rotors to lighten up for competition. Might as well go ahead and shave them down to the sevice limit thickness as well. You need to pull all the strings for Nats.
BigB said:moving, i read this to mean relocating. I don't know how much room you have but technically couldn't you keep the bottle in the same general area and zip tie it down to the intake housing or something else in the engine bay?
You're still moving it.
Britt
Rally Ninja
Member
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- MSP
I missed you yesterday I guess when I went to CS Britt. Damnit man I was going to run STX. Now I have to find some place else to run. I'm getting owned in DSTOCK. Maybe I'll do STS or something.
122 Vega said:I assume "factory adjustable distributor systems" to mean one that can be altered by moving the distributor. I would be interested in seeing the Factory service manual for your car to see if the section that shows alteration of ignition timing includes reprogramming of the ECU. I am referring to cars which specifically have adjustments at the distributor, like Miatas, Neons and most Toyotas.
Britt
Base timing stays the same. That is, the timing at the distributor/crank and at idle. Yes, you adjust base timing by moving the distributor either clockwise or counter-clockwise.
I was saying you were misleading because you stated that these modifications were not legal in ST, which in fact they are.
Now, whether they are appiclable to a MSP is another issue altogether.
Just trying to point out that if you want to go by the rules you need to understand not only how they apply to your vehicle but to the others you will be up against.
How long have you been in Solo?
I look forward to your build as I too think the MSP could do well in STX. I think it is better sorted from the dealer than a WRX.
The problem with it being so well sorted stock is that other cars stand to gain more from mods than the MSP does.
Having seen the Toxic Performance MSP kicking ass on sunday at devens in DS and seeing this STX build it makes me wonder if anybody is going to make a DSP build. There seem to be rumors floating around about moving the top BMW's out of DSP and with them gone the MSP I think could do pretty well as a DSP car.
Will you be doing bushings or sticking with stock there?
13. I don't know if you have been reading the sccaforums but there is talk about changes for seat weights for next year to a different number but including the bracket to prevent some of the crappy lightweight bracket mounting jobs out there. I would think that yours would be ok.
I just added up your prices $7,568(omg)(shocked) + everything you don't have prices listed for I hope you have lots of luck with this and can I get a co-drive in it?(evil)
Having seen the Toxic Performance MSP kicking ass on sunday at devens in DS and seeing this STX build it makes me wonder if anybody is going to make a DSP build. There seem to be rumors floating around about moving the top BMW's out of DSP and with them gone the MSP I think could do pretty well as a DSP car.
Will you be doing bushings or sticking with stock there?
13. I don't know if you have been reading the sccaforums but there is talk about changes for seat weights for next year to a different number but including the bracket to prevent some of the crappy lightweight bracket mounting jobs out there. I would think that yours would be ok.
I just added up your prices $7,568(omg)(shocked) + everything you don't have prices listed for I hope you have lots of luck with this and can I get a co-drive in it?(evil)
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