lightning and GT get passed by MSP

[ThrillRide]

most of them were driving schools & I had no way to time a lap. Guess I'm not a good driver

ah don't beat yourself up. i'm sure you are a decent driver.....well as long as you don't look at the crapy rustangs that run 1:20s at mosport as well as a few other blocky lumbering vehicles. hey at least you have a unique decent looking ride.

 

[apocman]

Well said, I have a lot of respect for you guys and I hope you continue to have fun at the tracks... Lord knows I would love to be at a track...

Wes, I was at Shannonville with you, in the grey Focus. I checked out your car, nice setup you have there.

I also passed the GT, and got the EXACT same response from all the Focus keyboard racers. "Oh, he must have been going slow. His tires must have sucked. He was only running on 4 cylinders. etc..."

People who have never been on track, or even autocrossed, can't even begin to comprehend how a fwd economy car can be as fast or faster than the big faptastic cars.

People have to realize, that the big cars are capable of much more speed, obviously. But they are MUCH more difficult to drive at 100% capability. It's pretty damn scary, and the consequences of even a tiny mistake are HUGE. Therefore, on a trackday, where we're just in it for fun, and the winner doesn't take home $1,000,000.... a well build fwd track ***** can beat up on the big cars. It's easy to get 100% out of our cars than it is to get 80% out of a GT.

But, it seems everybody is an expert because they have played 100's of hours on GranTourismo with no crash damage simulation.

 

[ThrillRide]

Wes, I was at Shannonville with you, in the grey Focus. I checked out your car, nice setup you have there.

I also passed the GT, and got the EXACT same response from all the Focus keyboard racers. "Oh, he must have been going slow. His tires must have sucked. He was only running on 4 cylinders. etc..."

People who have never been on track, or even autocrossed, can't even begin to comprehend how a fwd economy car can be as fast or faster than the big faptastic cars.

People have to realize, that the big cars are capable of much more speed, obviously. But they are MUCH more difficult to drive at 100% capability. It's pretty damn scary, and the consequences of even a tiny mistake are HUGE. Therefore, on a trackday, where we're just in it for fun, and the winner doesn't take home $1,000,000.... a well build fwd track ***** can beat up on the big cars. It's easy to get 100% out of our cars than it is to get 80% out of a GT.

But, it seems everybody is an expert because they have played 100's of hours on GranTourismo with no crash damage simulation.

you like several others so far just don't seem to read all the lines. there is not doubt in my mind that any car can be made to go super fast and driver super great. but if the driver in the car can't take the car around the turns it just doesn't matter what the chassis look like or the power under the hood. good for your if your ugly focus passed a GT. the argument here started with the fact...."fact"....that the MSP in stock form and even in modded form will not out perform a ford GT. i'm not talking about driver here. take a skilled driver give him both cars and the GT runs away.

look at some of the just plane dumb comments about the msp (in stock form) is better set up for track events with small straights. who is dumb enough to say that?? "better set up" LMAO. track style driving is exactly what the GT and GT40 were made for. GT40 was made to out run the ferrari in Le Mans. but hey now we have a puny 170bhp ecobox that is better set up for le mans. what were all those morons thinking dropping tons of cash on super cars when they could buy a tiny MSP and drop a couple grand on susp and make it run le mans.
just look at all those MSPs up there on the podium every sunday. crazy C6R drivers what were they thinking.

read between the lines before you argue.

 

[Metal MP5]

i'm planning to build my car for the track also, videos like the one in here are really motivating hehe i can't wait to finish fixing my engine and put the car on the track

 

[Laser03pro]

ThrillRide I dont think you understood him he was just saying it is easier to go all out in a msp then it is in a Ford GT. You would need a skilled driver that could really drive the gt and use most of its power im sure the guys driving the GT's wernt no professional drivers.

 

[Wesman II]

ah don't beat yourself up. i'm sure you are a decent driver.....well as long as you don't look at the crapy rustangs that run 1:20s at mosport as well as a few other blocky lumbering vehicles. hey at least you have a unique decent looking ride.

ThrillRide guys like you are why I need a 4 month break from this fu*cking board regularly & would rather post my videos on NSXprime. I have read a few of your old post and threads, they are very telling. I don't give a sh**te what you think of my lap times, the Speed World challenge pole last year was 1:29 at Mosport.
http://www.world-challenge.com/2004/events/mos/tc-qual.html

No doubt your WRX would do 1:15s though, cause WRXs rule! Maybe one day I will make it to Texas and you can show me how to drive, cause you are at the track all the time right? Then you can show your taillights to this 'unique decent looking ride' (fu)

 

[P-51]

The problem is you can't seperate the driver from the car. Have you ever driven a 911? At speed? How about a 911 turbo?

Do you have any idea how hard it is to drive fast in those things? You have a choice between understeer, more understeer, or massive oversteer. Not many people can get 100% out of them.

So, when you say that a certain car is OBVIOUSLY faster than another car.... who's driving? Because when you're talking sub-pro drivers... it's entirely possible that a given driver is faster in a FWD track ***** than a super car.

Some of the supercars are worse than others. The GT should actually be pretty decent. 911's are terrible. Corvettes are much easier.

If you're talking about putting a professional racer in the cars... well then no s*** sherlock.

This was a trackday. Those were Ford engineers driving. (Which doesn't say much one way or the other. Some could find a dipstick if it poked them in the eye, some are very fast club racers.)

Two FWD cars passed the GT. I don't think ANY of the Cobras, Mustangs or Lightnings did, for the record. Wes was the ONLY guy to pass me that day.

 

[TurfBurn]

I skipped about 6 pages to simply make one comment:

I have yet to be beat by a corvette (including Z06's) or semi-stock 911 in auto-x when running near equivalent tires. LOL . I'm sure it will happen... but i'm not really a great driver (I still hold out hope though )... so it isn't me doing it.

 

[Wesman II]

I skipped about 6 pages to simply make one comment:

I have yet to be beat by a corvette (including Z06's) or semi-stock 911 in auto-x when running near equivalent tires. LOL . I'm sure it will happen... but i'm not really a great driver (I still hold out hope though )... so it isn't me doing it.

You had better check with some LeMans teams about that according to ThrillRide it just isn't possible.

 

[ThrillRide]

please explain who it is easier to go "all out" in an MSP over a Ford GT.
Thanks

ThrillRide I dont think you understood him he was just saying it is easier to go all out in a msp then it is in a Ford GT. You would need a skilled driver that could really drive the gt and use most of its power im sure the guys driving the GT's wernt no professional drivers.

 

[TurfBurn]

Damn it.. I read it all and I have to comment...

MP3's still have a faster slalom record with Road and Track than all but a few cars... on stock tires (which, while decent, are not the kind of rubber fitted on stock "supercars").

Suspension settings and design for handling and cornering at sub 100 mph speeds are VASTLY different than those for a 200 mph car... so yes.. the GT very well could be not set up as well as the MSP for a given track... why the hell do you think you run different shock, spring, and alignment settings for every different track you run on? What is great for one track is ridiculously scary and crappy for another track... I had the wrong settings when I was at gingerman... and the slightest mistake resulted in uncontrollable spinning with the MP3... I literally shifted my weight in my seat slightly during the back sweeper turn at Gingerman that is straight back from the stands, and that led to the car spinning in track... between my alignment issues and the fact we couldn't get heat into the hoosiers the car was unpredictable and frightening to drive.

So while the GT is leagues beyond the MP3 or MSP there are certainly races or circumstances I wouldn't be that surprised by it being beat by a solid setup in other cases. There are a lot of variables past "it's a supercar therefore it will always win."

 

[ThrillRide]

You had better check with some LeMans teams about that according to ThrillRide it just isn't possible.

le mans teams dont run local cone races.

 

[TurfBurn]

please explain who it is easier to go "all out" in an MSP over a Ford GT.
Thanks

Simple... go ask any rally racer out there.. they'll tell you to start with a Volkswagon Rabbit and race that.. once you learn to get 100% out of that move up...

The simple fact is that a car can easily exceed the abilities of the driver... knowing the nuances and throttle control and steering response of the vehicle goes lightyears for determining how much handling you can pull out of a car...

Most Porsche drivers will tell you there is a steep learning curve... older 911's tend to bite people in the ass until they learn to use their potential properly.. then you can easily eek more out of them.

Professional drivers often talk about using practice laps as "setup" time in new cars so they can get use to the handling variations... the limits in a performance supercar are often very very fine lines... and walking on a fine line is a lot harder than walking down a broad street... You make a mistake in the MSP it takes only minor efforts to correct it out... make a mistake in a turbo 911 and you'll likely be in a wall... even if the speeds were the same between the two.

 

[Wesman II]

Post your times at your local track Mr. Badass

 

[Laser03pro]

How cause im sure they didnt have the balls to go flying into the corners with a 100k car or however much they cost and with that much power you just cant floor it all the time.

 

[ThrillRide]

ThrillRide guys like you are why I need a 4 month break from this fu*cking board regularly & would rather post my videos on NSXprime. I have read a few of your old post and threads, they are very telling. I don't give a sh**te what you think of my lap times, the Speed World challenge pole last year was 1:29 at Mosport.
http://www.world-challenge.com/2004/events/mos/tc-qual.html

No doubt your WRX would do 1:15s though, cause WRXs rule! Maybe one day I will make it to Texas and you can show me how to drive, cause you are at the track all the time right? Then you can show your taillights to this 'unique decent looking ride' (fu)

glad to see i got under your skin. the huge middle finger is a very compelling argument and had caused me to change my mind. your car is the greatest and you are the greatest driver. you own that crazy ford gt like mad

 

[Laser03pro]

Thanks Turf didnt feel like trying to explain that well lol.

 

[TurfBurn]

glad to see i got under your skin. the huge middle finger is a very compelling argument and had caused me to change my mind. your car is the greatest and you are the greatest driver. you own that crazy ford gt like mad

Car to explain to all of the methodology behind every driving school in the country of merit that starts someone out in a econobox or pickup truck and graduate you through more and more performance oriented vehicles until you finish out in a Viper or Formula car or Vette or the like if it is so easy to get 100% out of a high end vehicle from the start??

 

[TurfBurn]

le mans teams dont run local cone races.

But you said it wasn't possible to out perform a GT.. and you said it wasn't possible for the MSP/MP3 to be "better set up" for a particular track..

Explain please!

 

[Wesman II]

glad to see i got under your skin. the huge middle finger is a very compelling argument and had caused me to change my mind. your car is the greatest and you are the greatest driver. you own that crazy ford gt like mad

Until you have some tracktime under your belt, sir, stick to what you know. I have a video that proves, on that day, at that track, I passed a GT. And then again at another track.
You need something else to do beside get under multiple people's skin on msprotege.com, there is no prize in it you know....