Gear box fluid

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Mazda 2
I know there is a thread on here somewhere but cannot find it.

I was planning to change the fluid for something a bit better than stock.

Do i need a full synthetic or do i use a semi

What do people recommend? I was looking at Redline mtx


Thanks in advance

GB is a manual
 
It calls for GL4 75W85. DO NOT get anything rated GL5(or GL4/GL5).

It is a differential rating, the GL5 has extreme pressure additives, by default anything rated GL5 passes GL4 standards, but those ratings have nothing to do with being in a manual transmission, its all for hypoid gear survival in a differential.

Sulfur(the most common EP additive) attacks yellow metals, meaning your brass synchros. Run it for 10-15k miles and you'll be rebuilding the transmission. I'd use it in an emergency, but flush it out for GL4 asap.


The correct fluid is Redline MT85.

MTL is super thin IIRC and is not right for our application.

I know I've read here some references to other fluid weight specs, like 75w90. If that's the case MT90 is what you want. According to a couple sources at work it calls for 75w85(MT85).
 
It calls for GL4 75W85. DO NOT get anything rated GL5(or GL4/GL5).

It is a differential rating, the GL5 has extreme pressure additives, by default anything rated GL5 passes GL4 standards, but those ratings have nothing to do with being in a manual transmission, its all for hypoid gear survival in a differential.

Sulfur(the most common EP additive) attacks yellow metals, meaning your brass synchros. Run it for 10-15k miles and you'll be rebuilding the transmission. I'd use it in an emergency, but flush it out for GL4 asap.


The correct fluid is Redline MT85.

MTL is super thin IIRC and is not right for our application.

I know I've read here some references to other fluid weight specs, like 75w90. If that's the case MT90 is what you want. According to a couple sources at work it calls for 75w85(MT85).

^ Partly correct. I'll post a quote I made on the Miata.net forums after doing some research into the topic.

UTMorpheus said:
Yellow metal = brass, muntz, and certain copper alloys. Brass is what is used on the synchronizers in the Miata.

You need to understand that GL-4 and GL-5 are GEAR OIL specifications and not TRANSMISSION OIL specifications. GL-4 oils are meant to have a lesser degree of sulphur and phosphorus additives than GL-5, as well as a different package of friction modifiers.

Here is why it matters:

GL-5 is meant for extreme pressure and extreme temperature protection. When the sulphur/phosphorus additives contact high pressure and high temps they create a hard coating on any surface they are touching. This is typically a good thing. When the gears this coating is on experience friction between themselves, instead of the gears being slowly worn away, this coating is worn away. Then more of the additives are deposited restoring this coating and re-adding protection from friction and wear. Differentials and transmissions use hard steel gears, so when the friction wears off this coating, it doesn't damage the gears themselves.

However our transmissions have brass synchronizers. These are softer than the coating provided by the additives. When the coating is worn off by friction, it takes small amounts of the softer brass along with it. GL-5 also contains a different type and level of friction modifiers. These prevent the synchonizers from releasing and spinning freely resulting in "notchy" and hard shifts, or grinding if they are really bad.

When changing from one GL-5 to another GL-5 you are going to experience the same result as changing your engine oil. For a little bit while the fresh additive package does it's work of cleaning the old gears, the different(between brands) friction modifiers will help or solve some shift problems, and fresh base oil re-lubricates all the moving parts better than the old. However you are still doing damage due to the different concentration of sulphur/phosphorus and different types of friction modifiers.

To provide the best shifts, and the longest transmission life, you need an oil that provides three things:
1) Corrosion and pressure protection for the steel gears
2) Corrosion and pressure protection for "yellow metal" synchronizers
3) An additive package that allows the synchonizers to slip properly

With the NA, NB, and NC 5 and 6-speed transmission this is going to be GL-4 rated gear oil due to the yellow metal. The differential is void of yellow metals, therefore either GL-4 or GL-5 can be used, however due to the higher pressure protection GL-5 rated oils are recommended for the differential.

Here comes the hard part. Many manufacturers no longer make GL-4 gear oil because GL-5 is superior to it in the proper application(read: applications lacking in yellow metals). This is why many forum members have gone to the Motorcraft and Redline series because they are specifically designed for "synchromesh" transmissions and carry a GL-4 rating.

Think of your transmission as a wall. The steel gears are drywall, the synchronizers are the paper coating on the actual plaster. Now you want to hang a hook on the wall, you have two options: 3M Command adhesive, and 3M grey double-sided tape(the kind they use to attach spoilers, vent visors, etc. that's a #$%& to get off).
The GL-4 is the Command, the GL-5 is the grey double-sided tape from hell.

When you violently remove the Command tape, it comes off clean without any real damage to the paper. When you violently remove the grey stuff, it tears off some of the paper, but leaves the plaster drywall intact. This is what is happening to the gears and synchros in your transmission, just on a much slower scale.

Also, you won't be 'rebuilding the transmission after 10-15k miles'. You'll just have grinding gears, notchy shifting, and poor engagement. It will wear the synchros at an increased rate, but not anything near that quickly. Now the above info was for the Miata with a separate transmission and differential, but on a traverse gearbox like the Mazda2 with an integrated diff, you're looking to use strictly a GL-4 based oil because that's what it was designed to use.
 
^ Partly correct. I'll post a quote I made on the Miata.net forums after doing some research into the topic.



Also, you won't be 'rebuilding the transmission after 10-15k miles'. You'll just have grinding gears, notchy shifting, and poor engagement. It will wear the synchros at an increased rate, but not anything near that quickly. Now the above info was for the Miata with a separate transmission and differential, but on a traverse gearbox like the Mazda2 with an integrated diff, you're looking to use strictly a GL-4 based oil because that's what it was designed to use.

If tearing it apart to replace synchros isn't considered a rebuild I don't know what is.


FWIW I've personally witnessed (2) Kia/Hyundai manual transmissions need synchros replaced about 15k miles after the fluid was changed. GL5 was used at time of a clutch replacement. One had about 60k miles, the other 75 or 80k IIRC. I'm sure all different transmissions will wear at different rates with the wrong fluid, but that is based on personal experience when I didn't know any better(the mfr actually says GL4 or GL5 is allowed IIRC, but if you get dealer fluid its GL4).
 
Thanks for the info. I will look for some gl4 based oils. Has anyone used the redline stuff or any other brand?
 
I used Redline MT90 in my Mazda3, worked great, used to grind gears shifting quickly, no issues afterwards. It took about 200 miles to smooth out completely, it was great after the fluid change but it gets better with a bit of use.

I'll be putting MT85 in my 2. There aren't a whole lot of alternatives for other 75w85 GL4 fluids, like there is for 75w90. Looks like Castro Syntorque may be an alternative. It should be available at Dodge and Chevy dealers as its used in some heavy truck manual transmissions, and some newer Vipers. There is a 75w90 version and 75w85 version so just be aware of that.
 
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I'm going to use Valvoline Synpower 75w85 fluid. I autocross, and I want my tranny to live a long time with occasional abuse. This is a GL4 oil, and reasonable cost.
 
If tearing it apart to replace synchros isn't considered a rebuild I don't know what is.


FWIW I've personally witnessed (2) Kia/Hyundai manual transmissions need synchros replaced about 15k miles after the fluid was changed. GL5 was used at time of a clutch replacement. One had about 60k miles, the other 75 or 80k IIRC. I'm sure all different transmissions will wear at different rates with the wrong fluid, but that is based on personal experience when I didn't know any better(the mfr actually says GL4 or GL5 is allowed IIRC, but if you get dealer fluid its GL4).

My point is you're going to 'tear apart synchros' in 10-15k miles to the point of needing a rebuild. Maybe if the synchros are already nearly destroyed, but not on a healthy transmission. In most cases you swap out the fluid for the correct stuff and after a few hundred miles it improves back to normal shift qualities.

I'm going to use Valvoline Synpower 75w85 fluid. I autocross, and I want my tranny to live a long time with occasional abuse. This is a GL4 oil, and reasonable cost.

First, no Valvoline gear oil is GL-4. They are all GL-5 or 'rated for GL-4/GL-5'. They are NOT the correct fluid. Make sure you are actually reading the label and not the marketing material. The only GL-4 fluids that I know of are the Magical Ford(Motorcraft) Full Syn, Redline, Amsoil, and bulk fluid at Napa.
 
Hey guys thanks for the info. Another quick question. Does our GB have a pump of any type. Wanted a oil cooler set up
 
After reviewing the oil specs, I ordered and changed to Red Line GL4 75W-85 MT85 trans oil. One thing noticeable right away: the gear to gear resistance in the shifter is a about half of the factory oil. And the butt dyno says that 0-60 is faster too.

I used to own an 07 TC, and I know it was faster after changing to synthetic. I hit an acceleration ramp every morning, and it was getting to the speed limit faster, with the same shift points.

I also have hopes this will make the tranny survive autocrossing.

Two notes: First the plugs are 23MM on a 2014 2. Second, watch the splash when you dump the factory oil. If it is warm, it comes out in a very large stream and splatters in an empty pan.
 
Thanks I just ordered the mt85. I will note to run for the hills when I drop it when it hot............ Ohhhhh yeaaahhhh
 
3.07 qts from what I remember. I picked up 4 bottles from tripoint and the guys with the speed 3's were amazed at how much a little cutie like ours drinks
 
Not sure how, but not only did my tranny fluid look pretty good but somehow it took almost 3.5 qts and could've taken more. I even jacked up the rear to even out the chassis. OEM fill stuff kinda looks like coolant.
 
Not sure how, but not only did my tranny fluid look pretty good but somehow it took almost 3.5 qts and could've taken more. I even jacked up the rear to even out the chassis. OEM fill stuff kinda looks like coolant.

As long as it didn't smell like coolant lol.

Did you measure from the inspection hole or the fill hole?
 
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