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- San Antonio, Texas
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- '15 CX-5 Miata AWD
Thanks, it's nice to know that ass-hatery isn't ok here.
Body dented by itself - Skyactive = Flimsy?
- Thread starter gova
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Thanks, it's nice to know that ass-hatery isn't ok here.
Of course any car will dent in a severe hail storm. Personally, I think body panels that flex a little are more resistent to getting dented by hail because the flex can absorb some of the impact. And it looks like the windshield survived intact (unless it's been replaced). Also, be glad the quarter panels aren't made of brittle plastic.
Here are more photos of hail damaged cars (non-CX-5):
Moral of the story: Even heavy old school body panels are susceptible to hail, perhaps more so than modern lightweight ones made with steel alloyed for flexibility.
Been couple weeks, what did they say?
what happened after op left his cx-5 in the sun with the hatch open.
hahahaahhaa
My 2014 GT was hit in the side July 3rd by a Lexus. Low-speed impact; at first the only visible spot was where the headlight lens/bulb made contact in the center of the right-front passenger door. When it finally got to the body shop, we noticed buckling in the right front fender _forward_ of the impact. That means the door hinge buckled and pulled the sheet metal with it.
This corresponds with the tech bulletin on how they're trying to stiffen the driver's door to minimize mirror vibrations. It's also tied to the issue of hood vibration. And it may also be relevant to this thread, about sheet metal deforming at the rear liftgate.
Basically what it means is that "SkyActive", as a technique, is an extremely lightweight design rendering. It saves a lot of weight and the car rides "perky". But it also means that any sort of collision is going to be a more serious repair job, with a lot more interconnected parts affected by any bending motion.
Whether you like it or not, and whether you feel cheated by Mazda or not, the fact is that every car manufacturer is gong to be going this way to help meet future CAFE/emission standards. You want to see a thin, lightweight door? Visit a Nissan Cube at the dealer. It's about the strength of a pizza delivery box. But this ugly brick of a car gets 30+mpg.
This corresponds with the tech bulletin on how they're trying to stiffen the driver's door to minimize mirror vibrations. It's also tied to the issue of hood vibration. And it may also be relevant to this thread, about sheet metal deforming at the rear liftgate.
Basically what it means is that "SkyActive", as a technique, is an extremely lightweight design rendering. It saves a lot of weight and the car rides "perky". But it also means that any sort of collision is going to be a more serious repair job, with a lot more interconnected parts affected by any bending motion.
Whether you like it or not, and whether you feel cheated by Mazda or not, the fact is that every car manufacturer is gong to be going this way to help meet future CAFE/emission standards. You want to see a thin, lightweight door? Visit a Nissan Cube at the dealer. It's about the strength of a pizza delivery box. But this ugly brick of a car gets 30+mpg.
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Well said! To say nothing of the possibility that with this new generation of lightweight cars folding up on impact by design to save the passenger compartment from deformation, insurance rates could skyrocket as higher and higher percentages of them are totaled. Ah yes, gives new meaning to the phrase "We're the government and we're here to help!"
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You have been misinformed.
If the impact was to the center of the door it was the sheet metal and/or the internal frame of the door that started to buckle which then transferred the force of impact through the door hinges. Because modern technique requires the passenger safety cage to be as strong as possible while maintaining light weight construction, the door is designed to be structural in the event of a crash. This means if an impact is directed directly at the driver or passenger, the door latch and door hinges are designed to maintain substantial structural integrity when loaded to safely transfer the impact to stronger parts of the chassis. Because cars are many times less expensive to repair (or even discard) than human beings, this is a huge step in the right direction. Not only does it save the personal pain and agony of tens of thousands who would otherwise have serious or even life-threatening injuries, it also saves billions of dollars in medical costs nationwide. How is this a bad thing?
Anyone who thinks modern chassis design is a step in the wrong direction needs to check into the nearest mental hospital.
Increased vibration in the hood and door panels is primarily due to the use of thinner/lighter body panels in modern chassis design while simultaneously making the entire passenger safety cage more rigid and lighter. The rigid chassis members naturally transmit more road/engine vibrations precisely because the frame is lighter and more rigid. And the thinner sheet metal comprising the aerodynamic shell is lighter thus it has less damping effect on vibrations. I do not see minor vibrations of the body being a major issue except to the extent that it affects ancillary attached components such as the side view mirror. The fine tuning of the harmonics of the mirror assembly as well as the attachment area is all that's necessary to eliminate such issues.
Some people are alarmed to see the wings of the airliner they are cruising at 30,000 feet on flapping wildly in the turbulence. Informed passengers rest easy in the knowledge that the wings would break off if they were rigid.
What? You need to sit down and think this one through calmly. Hint: The heat of the sun does not cause the metal by the lift gate to dent. Of course, if you try to drive into your garage with the liftgate open, you can expect something to give. This is not a new phenomenon.
Mike deflates another amateur engineer.
I would definitely hope that the hinges would transfer the energy to the front structure of the car. Otherwise if you get hit in the door you just end up with a door lodged in you.
And it isn't just door hinge and sheet metal involved. The door hinge transfers the energy to the front structure and if there is enough energy that gives. Which absorbs some of the energy and is exactly what you want to happen. Then the sheet metal follows the structure.
The sheet metal is mostly for appearances and aerodynamics. The underlying structure of the car is designed to absorb and transfer energy around the cabin. When it gives and bends that is it absorbing the energy. When the surrounding structure is affected that is it transferring the energy. This is what allows people to walk away from collisions that would have killed them 30 years ago.
Search for "Malibu vs Bel Air crash test" and see what happens when a 'solid' car that doesn't give or transfer energy meets a modern car that does head on. And remember how solid the old cars seemed? You could sit on the hood to watch a drive-in movie and not dent it.
here's a spoiler for the video:
The sheet metal on cars is getting thinner, however as you've probably noticed cars are still way heavier than they were 20 years ago. That is because of all the extra reinforcement throughout the structure. The front fender isn't a structural part of the car and if the cars structure were actually weaker it wouldn't have done so well in the side impact test
So, thin sheet metal? Yes.
Flimsy structure? Not a chance.
Get hit hard enough to bend the underlying structure and you end up with bent sheet metal? Of course.
Back into our out of a covered parking area with the hatch open and catch it on something? yeah it will bend around it.
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The entire impact, as stated, was where the headlight lens' bulb made contact with the center of the sheet metal. A dimple about the size of a golf ball hitting the car.
This was sufficient for the hinge integrity to be destroyed, and pull the sheet metal of the front fender.
It has been six weeks since the accident. The current bodyshop effort is to replace the entire SKIN, that is, the outside of the door panel. I might have the car back Saturday or Monday. It was only 5 weeks old when the Lexus hit it.
As far as the veiled ad hominem -- shame. You really ought to know better! If you've made 847 posts in this forum, you essentially represent the forum to people not so obsessed. Kindly restrict your discussion to things you know about.
Actually, if you'd bothered to even read the TSB, you'd see that Mazda is recommending a metal strut inside the left front door to strengthen the mount point. That is not normal.
A Classic straw man post -- no one, certainly not me, said anything like what you are talking about.
Photos? It sounds like a good demonstration of how the CX-5 received top ratings in side impact crash testing. Amazing that such thin sheet metal can transfer a relatively small force so effectively (almost as amazing as how tough that front headlight bulb on the Lexus must be ;-) The fact that the door only buckled minimally while transferring the force to the stronger parts of the chassis is a text book example of how to design a car that protects the occupants from side impact.
Very good! It makes me think Mazda threw cost concerns aside and specified high tensile strength steel sheet metal for the door panels.
I'm glad Mazda is being pro-active about this issue that affects a minority of CX-5 owners. A strut in the mirror area is probably the surest way to dampen vibration in the door skin where the mirror attaches. Kudo's to Mazda for paying extra for a solution with a high chance of reducing any vibration to a minimum. I can think of no practical solution that would change the harmonics of the mirror to a greater degree.
You mentioned the post in this thread about sheet metal deforming by the lift gate. I know you are not the one who claimed the sun caused the sheet metal to deform when the lift gate was left open in the sun - but you did reference the original topic of this thread and say the problem might be related.
However, you completely ignored my main point - that repairing a car after a collision is far cheaper than putting the occupants through the pain, suffering and lost work caused by injury (not to mention death). Have you ever seen the bill from even a minor emergency room visit? Highway fatalities have been steadily declining with modern chassis design and the extra safety of modern automotive construction is saving this country billions of dollars.
It appears the OP of this thread (who blamed the sun for the dents near the liftgate struts) has not returned to tell us what Mazda determined as a cause of his dents. My guess? A collision with a garage door of an open liftgate. But I would like to hear the official story.
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I feel the need to comment on this..
The OP never blamed the sun on his dents. In fact, he didn't even mention if it was sunny or not (though he did say that the left or rear side was the "sunny" side, I wouldn't take that to mean that the weather was clear.) It's not completely uncommon for it to be 95F and overcast in some areas. If anything, he implied that the weight of the hatch might be to blame.
The fact that he mentioned the temperature may or may not be relevant. The he had the foresight to include the information may indicate that he's not sure what information is important, so decided to err on the side of completeness. The same for his mention that the sun was on the left side (or maybe the rear?) of the car. As someone who troubleshoots issues on a daily basis, I'd much rather people give me too much information instead of not enough.
As for why he might not have come back... Assume for the moment that he really has no idea how the dents got there so posted here for polite discussion of the issue. From his point of view, the weight of the hatch is/was probably a "best guess." Now read this entire thread again, see how he was treated, and you should be able to understand why he hasn't come back.
Look at the original post. He says:
I interpret "sunny" to mean "sunny". If it means "overcast" to you, that's your own interpretation.
One thing you are correct about - He didn't specifically blame the sun even though he hinted it might be relevant. It was worse than that. He indicated the damage came simply from the weight of the hatch being open for an hour.
If that were true, the dealer lots would be full of dented CX-5's. I've left my hatch open for 24 hours before. Do I need to tell you the metal did not slowly dent from it's own weight? It's irrational to believe that the damage was not caused by some sort of impact. Cars do not dent from sitting parked with the hatch open.
As I said: "(though he did say that the left or rear side was the "sunny" side, I wouldn't take that to mean that the weather was clear.)" Personally, and we will all interpret differently, I take this to mean that the sun was on that side of the sky. I don't take it to mean that the sun was shining directly on that panel. In my case, I'm trying to give the OP the benefit of the doubt instead of assuming he's an idiot.
Yes, he did imply that. While I don't agree with the idea that the hatch weight would cause the issue, I could see how a person who isn't familiar with the structure of the body would jump to that conclusion based on only the information in the original post. (I happened to study the body shop manual, so I know that skin damage from frame stress is extremely unlikely without massive force.)
Yet, people insisting that he drove into the garage with the hatch open and was deliberately not saying that is calling the person a liar. Being that the original poster is completely anonymous on this forum, I'd see no reason whatsoever for them to lie on here.
Funny you should say that. I picked up my CX-5 on an evening, and the next day when I went to give it it's "welcome home" bath, I noticed that there were 3 indentations on the left side, above and very slightly behind the rear door. The size of the indentations gave me the first impression was that the car was hit by golf balls. I drove out to the dealership the next business day, and the GM apologized profusely, loudly yelled at the guy who is supposed to inspect the cars both when they come off the delivery truck and before given to customers, and made an appointment for me to take care of the damage. Being I had already accepted delivery, I was grateful that he took responsibility instead of saying "too bad." According to him, they've seen similar damage on other CX-5 before customers accept delivery.
Perhaps the OP had the damage all along and never noticed?
Of course CX-5's get damaged in transit. That happens to every car model ever made and is completely different from denting on it's own. Accidents happen but are not relevant to this discussion.
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