AWD Mazdaspeed 3, STI killer

CHICO2003 said:
Exactly. why is everyone forgetting about weight? as it stands, the MS3 weighs in at about the same (if not more) than a WRX. Yet, in terms of its acceleration... it's roughly the same. Add a few extra lbs for an awd system and suddenly the MS3 is laggin behind. So maybe Mazda was right all along. .... or maybe they should've made the CAI and catback standard. that would've negated the extra poundage.
Click to expand...


No, because wrx's (up to 07) don't dyno much over 200whp. We would still probably be making about 220whp. The only reason that we have equal times in the quarter mile is because we don't hook up, our trap speed is about 6mph higher. And our car is so much more easier to mod than the wrx up to 300whp its not even funny. The wrx needs a new turbo for those types of number, we need an intake, turboback and cp-e standback.
 
I thought the only difference (besides the seats, wheels, and other BS) between the WRX and Sti was the IC, suspension, awd and ecu. I've been told it's relatively easy (and cheap) to turn a wrx into an sti (at least from the power dept)

Anyway... you hit the nail on the head. The WRX, even though it's seriously outponied, STILL keeps up (if not beats) the MS3 in every acceleration test. Reason: AWD Putting the MS6's awd system would theoretically fix that... but suddenly the car would weigh a few hundred lbs more than it did... and more than the wrx. for what you'd gain with traction you'd lose in the power/weight dept. Adding those upgrades you referred to would fix that... but in the end, you might be back where you started.

As far as I'm concerned... the MS3 is fine the way it is. AWD is overrated. Unless you live up in the mountains and find yourself driving through snow more often than not... what's the point? oh... i know! quicker 0-60 and 1/4 times right? Seriously... is there a worse way to gauge a car's performance? Everyone is so freakin enamored with these #s... it's sickening. meanwhile, the majority of people out there (myself included) rarely (if ever) peel out... drag... whatever. a) bad for the tires b) bad for the tranny c) bad on the wallet (cops don't seem to be a big fan of street racing) good enough for me. give me a car that's quick (from a roll) and handles well and I'm good. the MS3 more than fits that bill. The extra weight of an AWD system would only make the car slower.... and since I don't drag or live in the mountains, awd would be pointless. As for TS... go pump some iron you pussies. haha
 
CHICO2003 said:
For what you'd gain with traction you'd lose in the power/weight dept. Adding those upgrades you referred to would fix that... but in the end, you might be back where you started.
Click to expand...

I don't think adding awd to the ms3 is gona add so much weight that is going to be slow. I'll say about 100 to 150 pounds maximum. I mean, a drive shaft and a rear diff, not much weight to me.
 
Last edited:
CHICO2003 said:
I thought the only difference (besides the seats, wheels, and other BS) between the WRX and Sti was the IC, suspension, awd and ecu. I've been told it's relatively easy (and cheap) to turn a wrx into an sti (at least from the power dept)

Anyway... you hit the nail on the head. The WRX, even though it's seriously outponied, STILL keeps up (if not beats) the MS3 in every acceleration test. Reason: AWD Putting the MS6's awd system would theoretically fix that... but suddenly the car would weigh a few hundred lbs more than it did... and more than the wrx. for what you'd gain with traction you'd lose in the power/weight dept. Adding those upgrades you referred to would fix that... but in the end, you might be back where you started.

As far as I'm concerned... the MS3 is fine the way it is. AWD is overrated. Unless you live up in the mountains and find yourself driving through snow more often than not... what's the point? oh... i know! quicker 0-60 and 1/4 times right? Seriously... is there a worse way to gauge a car's performance? Everyone is so freakin enamored with these #s... it's sickening. meanwhile, the majority of people out there (myself included) rarely (if ever) peel out... drag... whatever. a) bad for the tires b) bad for the tranny c) bad on the wallet (cops don't seem to be a big fan of street racing) good enough for me. give me a car that's quick (from a roll) and handles well and I'm good. the MS3 more than fits that bill. The extra weight of an AWD system would only make the car slower.... and since I don't drag or live in the mountains, awd would be pointless. As for TS... go pump some iron you pussies. haha
Click to expand...

Power wise it is pretty easy to turn an wrx into an sti, but the biggest difference is that the sti is a six speed with a variable type awd system. Other than that, it has a different ic, suspension, brakes, interior, wheels, turbo, turbo manifold, tires and on and on. Ignoring the variable awd system, it would cost you at least ten grand for all the parts to get a base wrx to sti standars, using subaru parts at least. You can get coilovers for 1500, big brakes for 1500 and a 20g turbo with supporting mods for 2000, wheels and tires for 1500 and compete with an sti in a wrx though, maybe even be faster, but then you still have that glass tranny.

The point is taht the ms3 makes so much more power, that it would make it equal in the acceleration department stock for stock, and would destroy it in handling and braking (handling and braking would be pretty close to an sti, as they already are) despite the weight, it may even be slighly more powerful still. WRX's actually make between 165 and 190whp, depending on the year. And it's not about the launch, it's about people like me who track there cars (race track, not quarter mile) that would like to have a car that won't torque steer out of every corner. I love my car, but it would be better with awd.
 
fourthmeal said:
I work at Identifix, which provides fix information for dealerships and independent repair shops. A person who was wearing a Mazda "Zoom Zoom" polo shirt (who later identified himself as one of the Mazda Engineers that helped design the MS3 on the North American side of the corporation) who was visiting our company in Las Vegas came by and spoke with me as I was leaving for the day. He asked how I like the Speed3, and what is my impression of this, that, etc. I told him, "pretty good except for when my engine fell out of the damn car", and he remarked that he heard about this happening and said he was afraid it would be an issue down the road. I asked him a few questions about why they used such weak mounts and why the engine moves as much as it does, and he said the NVH guys won that battle...

Then we got into traction issues. He showed me the DSC/TCS trick that a lot of you know now (the one where you start the car with the button pressed, to disable ALL computer intervention), and he mentioned that it will make the car much more powerful in 1st and 2nd (he didn't mention boost limitation but I took the hint.) I asked him why the heck is it FWD if it has almost 300HP, and he mentioned that it CAN BE AWD with some parts from the parts bin, and a few custom parts. He shrugged and said he was for AWD, but the MS6 was flopping pretty badly, and they wanted to try something different, and it just came to be what it is today. He said the trans can take it, and the tunnel is already there sharing space with the exhaust, and the rear subframe can take it as well...
Click to expand...

Um... you told him about the forums, right?
 
redspeed said:
I don't think adding awd to the ms3 is gona add so much weight that is going to be slow. I'll say about 100 to 150 pounds maximum. I mean, a drive shaft and a rear diff, not much weight to me.
Click to expand...

not directly related to the MS3 or MS6, but the 1st gen Protege AWD tranny weighs 160lbs, vs the 75lbs of the fwd. The whole car weighs 350lbs more than the 2WD version (which has power everything while the 4WD does not).

I think an estimate of 250lbs more is reasonable, if we believe DG's claim of the rear diff direct fitting to the rear subframe. This extra weight can easily be overcome with power, if the MS3 is as easy to mod as many have proven. Anyone on here with more than 300whp on their MS6 broken drivetrain parts yet?

another random thought: A stock STi can break its drivetrain if treated improperly.
 
4l5vurn.jpg


from SEMA
 
almightybmw said:
not directly related to the MS3 or MS6, but the 1st gen Protege AWD tranny weighs 160lbs, vs the 75lbs of the fwd. The whole car weighs 350lbs more than the 2WD version (which has power everything while the 4WD does not).

I think an estimate of 250lbs more is reasonable, if we believe DG's claim of the rear diff direct fitting to the rear subframe. This extra weight can easily be overcome with power, if the MS3 is as easy to mod as many have proven. Anyone on here with more than 300whp on their MS6 broken drivetrain parts yet?

another random thought: A stock STi can break its drivetrain if treated improperly.
Click to expand...

Damn! 85 lbs difference for the protege trans, that is a lot. But the ms6 and ms3 tranny are the same except for the PTO, so hopefully the difference in weight won't be that much.
 
Ferdball said:
Um... you told him about the forums, right?
Click to expand...

I DID! Mazdas247. Dude he was a cool guy, I wish I'd have gotten his card or something. I didn't realize just how useful he could have been to us until after I was doing burnouts in the parking lot with the DSC/TCS off. LOL!
 
So if the rear diff does fit, what other parts would you need? A custom driveshaft? This is very intriguing.
 
aperently they used the speed 6 rear diff on this one. wrx is a 50/50 until you get into the sti which hac DCCS i forget what it stands for nowdays but it allows diffrent values through a computer controled clucches but standard is 40/60 rear biased granted this info is just off the top of my head. speed 6 is front biased and starts sending it back not sure if it can send it all to the back or if it is limited to 50/50. and there are 3-4 other threds on theroies on makeing our car AWD and some on this car.
 
since its the same.
throw an lsd from an RX* of for one in there. then it wont be a problem.
 
i really like my MS3, but I would really enjoy testing an AWD MS3!

R
 
trying to read all the sponsors on DG car. maybee they have stuff avilible.
like racecages.com on there. and i cant read the rest! lol
 
Please log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

T
Difference between rear subframe of Mazdaspeed3 and Mazda3?
Replies
1
Views
3K
njaremka
N
T
Smoke only on downhills? 2008.5 Mazdaspeed3
Replies
3
Views
3K
concept
concept
M
Major Mazdaspeed3 Clutch issues…Help!
Replies
2
Views
2K
muteme87
M

Latest posts

Back