AWD Mazdaspeed 3, STI killer

[ALIEN3T]

MS6 RWD IS USED FOR TRACTION, BUT UNDER SPEEDS LIEK FREEWAY AND STUFF I THINK ITS SUPPOSE TO SHUT DOWN (PULL a plug rwd is gone). mainly to save on gas, dont need it, cvut down on the drag. and it comes back on when needed.

or since everyone wants AWD, 1 know one company that woudl liek to do the volvo s40 rear end from the awd model (if thats the right model ) for it is the same platform!

or is you all want to know, just call DG!! an idea?

 

[Ferdball]

Interesting...

 

[fourthmeal]

FYI, I wrote this on a similar thread a while back, it seems a good time to repost it here.


I work at Identifix, which provides fix information for dealerships and independent repair shops. A person who was wearing a Mazda "Zoom Zoom" polo shirt (who later identified himself as one of the Mazda Engineers that helped design the MS3 on the North American side of the corporation) who was visiting our company in Las Vegas came by and spoke with me as I was leaving for the day. He asked how I like the Speed3, and what is my impression of this, that, etc. I told him, "pretty good except for when my engine fell out of the damn car", and he remarked that he heard about this happening and said he was afraid it would be an issue down the road. I asked him a few questions about why they used such weak mounts and why the engine moves as much as it does, and he said the NVH guys won that battle...

Then we got into traction issues. He showed me the DSC/TCS trick that a lot of you know now (the one where you start the car with the button pressed, to disable ALL computer intervention), and he mentioned that it will make the car much more powerful in 1st and 2nd (he didn't mention boost limitation but I took the hint.) I asked him why the heck is it FWD if it has almost 300HP, and he mentioned that it CAN BE AWD with some parts from the parts bin, and a few custom parts. He shrugged and said he was for AWD, but the MS6 was flopping pretty badly, and they wanted to try something different, and it just came to be what it is today. He said the trans can take it, and the tunnel is already there sharing space with the exhaust, and the rear subframe can take it as well.

Now, whether he was just running theories through my mind like engineers tend to do, or whether he was hinting at some seriously cool s***, I don't know. But I do know that the day this happened, I turned off my DSC/TCS system and I haven't left it on since (unless it is raining!)

 

[Igve2shtz]

AWD MS3 = Me trading in the MS6 in a heartbeat.

To correct some rumors: The AWD in the MS6 is for traction, not for drifting. Yes, it has FWD bias, but let me tell you what you are missing: NO torque steer! Plus, understeer is severly limited, only when really pushing the envelope. And let us not forget, No Spinning in 1st, second, or even third. Our only real problem is the fact that all the weight is still on the front wheels, so it isnt as neutral handling as, say a BMW.

And AWD systems in Evos and STIs and WRX's is beefier ... Not necessarily more advanced.

An MS3 with the MS6 AWD, stronger mounts, and definetly some stronger axles would be astonishing. Just ask yourself, how many videos do you see of stock MS3's taking on Evo 8's, and STIs from a 50 mph roll, and keeping up with, or beating them? Now add AWD and you have yourself a stoplight demon.

 

[x'ed]

I don't know man... I think you might be off here. The WRX, by comparrison, has a rwd bias... while the ms6's awd system is more biased towards the front wheels. that's a huge difference and one that can't be overlooked.

No it doesn't, it is just a 4x4, straight up 50/50 power split front and back, no rwd bias. Ever driven a wrx? You would be shocked at how much it understeers on the stock suspension. It is not advanced at all, its the same 4x4 system that has been used for 100 years. See the post above mine for further explanation.

 

[x'ed]

LOL @ STi killer.

That's never going to happen. How many years of experience does Subaru have perfecting their performance awd transmission systems compared to Mazda?

Trasmission systems being perfect? Is that why wrx trannies blow as often as hookers on sunset blvd? An mazda 3 with awd would be all over a wrx, pretty competitve with an sti after just an intake and boost controller. It already handles just about as well as an sti on tarmac. I don't think its a stretch. Maybe not an sti killer, but it would be competitive.

 

[Igve2shtz]

No it doesn't, it is just a 4x4, straight up 50/50 power split front and back, no rwd bias. Ever driven a wrx? You would be shocked at how much it understeers on the stock suspension. It is not advanced at all, its the same 4x4 system that has been used for 100 years. See the post above mine for further explanation.

Not to start a battle or anything, but just letting you know: This is for a 2005 Suburu WRX STi from Motor Trend:
Subaru's all-wheel-drive system uses an open planetary center differential with a rear-drive bias (35 percent front, 65 rear). An electronically operated hydraulic clutch can progressively lock this differential automatically or manually. When fully locked, the torque split is 50/50. The differential apportions torque based on throttle position, cornering force, acceleration or deceleration rates, and wheelslip.

This is the link: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedan/112_0410_rally_sedan_comparison/road_course.html

 

[PeterC]

No it doesn't, it is just a 4x4, straight up 50/50 power split front and back, no rwd bias. Ever driven a wrx? You would be shocked at how much it understeers on the stock suspension. It is not advanced at all, its the same 4x4 system that has been used for 100 years. See the post above mine for further explanation.

+1. I owned an 02 WRX (not an STI), and that car had no RWD bias. It's tendency to understeer is very clear the moment you power through a turn on boost. The STI has that DCCD system where you can push more power to the rear, but not the standard WRX.

 

[ill_eagle94]

I don't know man... I think you might be off here. The WRX, by comparrison, has a rwd bias... while the ms6's awd system is more biased towards the front wheels. that's a huge difference and one that can't be overlooked.

The new WRX has a Viscous center and open front and rear diffs. That's not very advanced.

 

[ms3guy22]

you will have a great car,.....that has a curb weight over 3600 lbs, thats a great power to weight ratio

 

[RODSCALIP5]

LOL @ STi killer.

That's never going to happen. How many years of experience does Subaru have perfecting their performance awd transmission systems compared to Mazda?

Actually Mazda has years of experience with AWD, just not in the U.S. But I agree that it may not be an STI Killer.

 

[x'ed]

Not to start a battle or anything, but just letting you know: This is for a 2005 Suburu WRX STi from Motor Trend:
Subaru's all-wheel-drive system uses an open planetary center differential with a rear-drive bias (35 percent front, 65 rear). An electronically operated hydraulic clutch can progressively lock this differential automatically or manually. When fully locked, the torque split is 50/50. The differential apportions torque based on throttle position, cornering force, acceleration or deceleration rates, and wheelslip.

This is the link: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedan/112_0410_rally_sedan_comparison/road_course.html

Look at the post below mine for proof from an owner. I know the sti does, but the person I was responding too said that the wrx doesn't which it does not. The STI does have an awd system that can send more power to the rear, the wrx does not, and never has. Two completely different beasts. In America the wrx is much more intended to be a smart family car that drives well in incliment weather than a sports car, the sti is the balls out sports car. That's not to say the wrx cannot be made sporty, but from the factory it is not intended to, which is why it comes with some of the worst wheels you will find on a stock car.

 

[Rotary_Powered]

He showed me the DSC/TCS trick that a lot of you know now (the one where you start the car with the button pressed, to disable ALL computer intervention), and he mentioned that it will make the car much more powerful in 1st and 2nd (he didn't mention boost limitation but I took the hint.)...

Huh? Really? Anyone on with more details on this? Has it verified?

 

[x'ed]

It does seem to do something, the car seems to pull harder up to redline. Just tried this the other day and both lights come on, the dsc light and the light with the car loosing control, traction control light i guess. It did seem to pull harder, but then again it was a cold night and this car is much stronger with cold temperatures.

 

[x'ed]

Huh? Really? Anyone on with more details on this? Has it verified?

What kind of FC do you have? I had an SA (1979 rx7, they started being called FB later) and had an 89 turbo II motor in there with a gsl-se rear end and turbo II tranny with a wolf 3d standalone ecu. I love rotaries, I really want to get a first gen gsl-se and drop a turbo II in there again, oh well, the 240 will do for now.

 

[fourthmeal]

What kind of FC do you have? I had an SA (1979 rx7, they started being called FB later) and had an 89 turbo II motor in there with a gsl-se rear end and turbo II tranny with a wolf 3d standalone ecu. I love rotaries, I really want to get a first gen gsl-se and drop a turbo II in there again, oh well, the 240 will do for now.

LOL, geez that was a hell of a threadjack..

PM him for that stuff man!




As far as the DSC switch, I don't know for sure, but it feels like first and second gear aren't inhibited by anything. It will lay serious rubber in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, without a clutch-drop. That doesn't translate into extra acceleration mind you, but I prefer to decide for myself what limits I'm at.

Try it, and evaluate it on a dyno sometime. I'd love to see proof as well, but until then the switch stays hit for me.

 

[CHICO2003]

No it doesn't, it is just a 4x4, straight up 50/50 power split front and back, no rwd bias. Ever driven a wrx? You would be shocked at how much it understeers on the stock suspension. It is not advanced at all, its the same 4x4 system that has been used for 100 years. See the post above mine for further explanation.

Well even if it's 'only' 50/50, that's still more of a rwd bias than the fwd bias the MS6 awd system exudes. It's all relative...

 

[CHICO2003]

you will have a great car,.....that has a curb weight over 3600 lbs, thats a great power to weight ratio

Exactly. why is everyone forgetting about weight? as it stands, the MS3 weighs in at about the same (if not more) than a WRX. Yet, in terms of its acceleration... it's roughly the same. Add a few extra lbs for an awd system and suddenly the MS3 is laggin behind. So maybe Mazda was right all along. .... or maybe they should've made the CAI and catback standard. that would've negated the extra poundage.

 

[Ferdball]

Try it, and evaluate it on a dyno sometime. I'd love to see proof as well, but until then the switch stays hit for me.

I thought you had to disable it on a dyno. I don't know why I thought that, but I would imagine that the system would freak out if the rear wheels weren't turning, while the front were.

 

[Young Roids]

Exactly. why is everyone forgetting about weight? as it stands, the MS3 weighs in at about the same (if not more) than a WRX. Yet, in terms of its acceleration... it's roughly the same. Add a few extra lbs for an awd system and suddenly the MS3 is laggin behind. So maybe Mazda was right all along. .... or maybe they should've made the CAI and catback standard. that would've negated the extra poundage.

Yea I will take the MS3 as is without the parasitic losses due to awd and the extra weight.