AMS Mazda Speed 3 Test: The in's and outs of the MS3 powerplant

[shark77]

when the mazda WDS computer (their huge scan tool) is plugged in it checks to see if the current flash is up to date also checks the version number. So they would be able to see right away. Also if mazda comes out with a flash newer than what Cobb has they will flash the ecu and you will have a stock mazda tune all over again.

Cobb AP downloads the current map on the ecu and stores it before it installs it's own map(s). So, if you go to the dealer, you just need to unmarry the AP from the car, and the factory map is put back in place.

If you do not unmarry the AP and the dealer tries to flash the ecu, they will be unable to and get an error.

 

[dread]

so if it is unmarried there is no way to detect that it has ever been there?

 

[nocoastgangster]

I'm getting married this weekend, but alas not to a MS3.

 

[dread]

congrats, I got married 6 months ago.

 

[Nutari]

Cobb AP downloads the current map on the ecu and stores it before it installs it's own map(s). So, if you go to the dealer, you just need to unmarry the AP from the car, and the factory map is put back in place.

If you do not unmarry the AP and the dealer tries to flash the ecu, they will be unable to and get an error.

The Mazda computers can tell WHEN it was last modified. if you go in and say . yes it sees a stock map, but that it was modified recently, they can go into their database, check when your last service/warranty work was done and see if the computer was touched. If not, they will ask you why your computer has been recently accessed.

 

[desperado-c]

The Mazda computers can tell WHEN it was last modified. if you go in and say . yes it sees a stock map, but that it was modified recently, they can go into their database, check when your last service/warranty work was done and see if the computer was touched. If not, they will ask you why your computer has been recently accessed.

Finally, a response that makes sense. It's probably even true, also. So, if a tech happens to see the date of the stock map, they might bother to tell the service manager, who might deny a warranty claim. Maybe we can check the Subie forums to get a sense of how often this happens.

 

[tru-boost]

Finally, a response that makes sense. It's probably even true, also. So, if a tech happens to see the date of the stock map, they might bother to tell the service manager, who might deny a warranty claim. Maybe we can check the Subie forums to get a sense of how often this happens.

i know you are talking for warranty purposes, but i am still looking at price/funtion.
the AP actually tunes the ECU the xede just lies to it in a pre set manner !!
sure it will work and i have even considered it, ( until cp-e told me they have a VERY similar product to be released for $600 ) but IF the AP c omes out i WILL get it...if not I'll save the $400 and buy the piggy back from cp-e.

 

[Captain KRM P5]

the xede just lies to it in a pre set manner !!

pre-set? the xede is user tunable by as wide if not wider range of functions right out of the box. it should be noted that alot of piggybacks 'lie' to the stock ecu if going by that definition. lets be clear and honest about the capabilities of all systems involved and not be misdirected or misinformed.

captain, I did not mean to suggest that you were biased, in fact I have great respect for your knowledge and opinions.

its cool, i did not think so whatsoever. i want to stay informed on all possible solutions as much as the next guy i'm all for different options. when there is more concrete information from cobb closer to a potential release dat you can be sure i'll be keeping in touch with them.

 

[Pololo_MS3]

This is GOOD NEWS

I am sure the "COBB way" has more capabilities than the XEDE and AMS supporting the hardware, I won't be surprised if they become the "ultimate tuning place" for our MS3

However, the KEY thing here is WARRANTY and me, like a few other folks here that drive the car everyday, DO care about warranty!

Sure the XEDE is still a "piggyback" and might not even let me control everything I want to, unlike the standalone ECU, but if the overall results are real (I test drove the BEGI car ), warranty is still in effect, there is no other route for me

On the other hand, if you don't care about warranty, then XEDE might not be the best route(bigger turbo, ECU, FMIC) but so far it's proven to be the only way to get reliable power

I believe the technicians are not that "trained" SW wise; I experienced this with my RX8 as they were clueless about SW version and even checksum of the SW downloaded, but I don't want to take my chances

Granted, the "stock SW" is stored but once you load it again prior going to the dealer, the latest download date and time will be the one you did it and not the dealer, unless of course there is a way to fool the ECU by changing the date it was downloaded

If the technician happens to see this discrepancy, I am sure you can kiss your warranty good bye

My 2 cents,
Carlos

 

[Captain KRM P5]

if plug and play happens (BEGi is optimistic at this point) for the XEDE than I know that will allay alot of peoples' current concerns. your voices have been heard by all parties involved, trust me

like the tech support dept at cobb told me today, if a technician is using a WDS (the machine mazda uses to read the onboard computer systems) and is trying to look for things he will find it. whether or not they care or know how to interpret that is something else. "unmarrying" the system before youre trip in will lessen the chance of this happening of course. this is true of any aftermarket parts on the car.

of course, there are other possibilities. having worked at a dealer with subaru and mazda lines, we had guys come in with a ton of stuff on thier STi's, including Cobb, and we still honored the warranty even if it was obviously not the manufacturer's fault. generally if the customer came in and was honest or not a jerkoff, we'd take care of him. if they tried to lie or were otherwise dishonest about thier cars the technicians or service writers would give less leeway. there is also the fact that some junior techs and apprentices won't know what to look for.

moral of the story; don't give your dealer an un-due reason to look for something and they probably won't

 

[desperado-c]

... having worked at a dealer with subaru and mazda lines, we had guys come in with a ton of stuff on thier STi's, including Cobb, and we still honored the warranty even if it was obviously not the manufacturer's fault. generally if the customer came in and was honest or not a jerkoff, we'd take care of him. if they tried to lie or were otherwise dishonest about thier cars the technicians or service writers would give less leeway. there is also the fact that some junior techs and apprentices won't know what to look for.

moral of the story; don't give your dealer an un-due reason to look for something and they probably won't

Thanks for another good, real world post, making the point that if you care about your warranty, it is never cut and dried. Seems to show that service departments are like cops when it comes to warranties: some are gonna be strict and some easy, but a lot depends whether they think you're screwing with them.

 

[zoom-zoomhatch]

That's a really nice analogy.

 

[desperado-c]

That's a really nice analogy.

Thanks, I have a BS in analogy, and went on to get an MD in proctology.
Figured I have to deal with lot of a*&^%les no matter what line of work I went into, so might as well get paid accordingly. JOKING, JUST JOKING!

 

[gbalanced]

Being a Mercedes technician and working at a certified dealer, I can tell you that more likely than not, the tech will neither care, recognize what he's looking at is aftermarket software programming, or even think to look for that kind of thing when trying to determine the source of the problem the car was brought in for. Granted we get software updates monthly for our machines and sometimes when a car comes in with "Self adaptation of mixture formation" codes for the ME (Motor Electronics, ie. ECU) we do usually have newer software on the machines and just overwrite the existing software on the vehicles computer.

I can honestly tell you that not one person in the shop would suspect aftermarket tuning to be at fault for a problem, but I cannot vouch for Mazda and their performance vehicles, especially because they are more associated with "tuner" cars and are modified more often than Mercedes. They are most certainly not going to be looking at fuel maps or ignition advance, let alone do I even think their computers are capable of calculating/retreiving such values because ours don't even do that. For fuel enrichment purposes all we see are the ms of the duty cycle of the injectors.

If you ask me I think you are all way overreacting and overestimating the intelligence/cunning of your average shop/technician. This isn't a TV show or a movie people. These are people just trying to get by and make a living. They aren't super detectives out to try and solve and intricate puzzle or catch the customer doing wrong because it ends up wasting more time. Wasting more time = less money for us commission paid folks

Anyways, just thought I would shed a little light on the subject with an insiders opinion.

By the way, I noticed the last post on this thread was in January. Anyone have any updates as to the progress of an ECU Flash? I myself would be more than confident of bringing into the dealer without even wasting my time of trying to flash it back to stock. I'm just like the next guy trying to get the most out his car while maintaining his warranty-- helps keep costs down

 

[numbnuts22715]

if you're talking about Cobb, there still isnt an ETA. It could be a while. I'm perfectly fine with waiting, I saw what Cobb did to my friends WRX. It's simply amazing, and a mod like that is completely and totally worth waiting for. Cobb has my complete support.
It almost makes it another reason to get this car.

I dont even have it yet, but plan on getting one in a few weeks.

 

[chriscecc914]

its nice to see a company like AMS has taken interest in our cars. Welcome to the forums.

 

[Captain KRM P5]

its nice to see a company like AMS has taken interest in our cars. Welcome to the forums.

this is a REAL old thread. AMS is not doing anything to these cars as of right now.

i too would like to see the cobb solution. we installed it on a legacy GT here and it worked great for what it is. its been vaporware on the mazdaspeed3 for a year now. they keep saying something is happening but they even pulled the unit from thier webpage

 

[shadow1]

Has anyone done piggyback tuning with like a SAFC? Although not as thorough as an ECU reflash, it does help make power.

 

[Captain KRM P5]

you know what, the SAFC series did not work on cars like the Protege and Miata because the computers were too smart and would override them. i do think an SAFC NEO would work on this car and the other new mazdas, but i'll need a volunteer to prove that.

 

[shark77]

this is a REAL old thread. AMS is not doing anything to these cars as of right now.

i too would like to see the cobb solution. we installed it on a legacy GT here and it worked great for what it is. its been vaporware on the mazdaspeed3 for a year now. they keep saying something is happening but they even pulled the unit from thier webpage

Word over at Cobb is that we are looking at a time around SEMA for a release date on AccessPort2.