dacquesta1
Member
- :
- 2000 Mazda Protege ES
Give me his info I may consider sending him one might be worth a look
A cheap "standalone" solution?
- Thread starter CustomMSP
- Start date
- :
- 03.5 YLW MSP
Id be willing to donate a little to the cause to get tweecer crack the ecu
the funny part is the asian guys at my work told us about this and even hired the guys for us through an online site. From what I understand quite a bit of work for a lot of can/us companies is done like this. its not a bad deal for either party so why not. but looking back at my post, i probably could have worded that a bit more respectfully. got nothing against asians and I drive a mazda so.. ya know.
hornsfan10609
Certified Mazda Tech
- :
- 2003.5 Mazdaspeed Protege x2
Both the ECU and the wiring connector have the Ford logo on them.
me 2
lol at having an intel chip inside!
wonder if we cna upgrade it to a dual core or something....and actually make the car faster!
on a side note, the gell keeps the internals from rusting hence why the ECU can get wet and not break unless another component outside the ecu actually shorts it out.
but one has to wonder, what is that port on the top right?
wonder if we cna upgrade it to a dual core or something....and actually make the car faster!
on a side note, the gell keeps the internals from rusting hence why the ECU can get wet and not break unless another component outside the ecu actually shorts it out.
but one has to wonder, what is that port on the top right?
UKtheGREAT
Member
- :
- 2003.5 MSP
What you didn't want to know about ECUs can be found here.
Hehe, I see electrical engineering written all over this post, and i've got to be honest- i'm excited to donate what information I can.
Warning: Fixing to Nerd out for a few, hope you don't mind. ;D
Just a few notes considering using any ECU from any SFI setup, or moreover any electronic fuel injection setup. They are all the same thing parts wise. Microcontrollers and Microprocessors, inputs and outputs, lows and highs; that's it. Alejo_NIN is correct, the 'gel' used in many electrical applications is what is called a dielectric, nonconductive coating. A fancy, nonconductive RTV if you will. The 'port' located on the top right is either a maintenance port (Able to reflash any updates, or burn a different set of commands, or a 'script' to said ECU/Microcontroller) or an additional, auxiliary set of inputs and outputs. This can be seen on some cars that are produced in a variety of different models and trims, so as to lower the cost of remanufacturing completely different ECUs for the same car, but with say all-wheel drive, or a V-8, or both!) Anyways, this is a very basic rundown as to what happens:
* Microprocessor is miss-spelled above. Not altering.
The Microprocessor reads and interprets information, either gathered directly or through its interdependency with the microcontroller. The information being sent is incredibly basic (0's and 1's, Binary, otherwise known as highs and lows). A High signal could be interpreted as 5v, or 3v- it is given to our 12v system by the battery, and regulated to what voltage we want by a voltage regulator. A low would be seen as 0.0v, or below a set amount as programmed into the Microcontroller. Microcontrollers are in almost anything and everything where it has an output of anything that depends solely on an input that it is given. TVs, remote controls, computers, car radios, everything. Highs and lows, i'm tellin' you!
The Microcontroller makes decisions based on what is kind of a 'script', or a set of implicit rules to follow. For example: The ECU is pinged 5 times with 5 volts DC from the Mass Air Flow sensor. This hits the processor and the processor interprets it as 5 units of air (How much air at this point doesn't matter for the sake of example). It shoots the same signal of 5vdc/5pls to the Microcontroller, which in turn by it's own script (Often written and 'flashed' or 'burned' to it's own memory or memory held within the ECU, much like computer RAM) says it needs to add 1 unit of fuel for every 1 unit of air. It will send a signal out to the fuel injector currently entering its intake phase; Yes, another voltage, or 'high' saying to release fuel for how long. This process happens a few million times a second, or more. For example, a 24MHz processor or controller runs through its script 24 million times a second, otherwise known as 24,000,000 cycles/second, and that certainly isn't a fast one (My computer has a 3.3GHz processor; tallies 3.3 trillion cycles a second, to put it into a sort of perspective). The reason a 24MHz processor/controller or around that speed is used is because believe it or not, that is all that is needed for these basic calculations. All electronic fuel injection systems work this exact same way, whether it be on a Ferrari or a Daihatsu. It's quite a bit to intake, but it has very basic principles and is very easy to replicate across the board. The more pistons, often the more inputs required as far as location of cams, pistons and their current phase (intake, compression, explosion, exhaust), injector, throttle position and air information. In any case, if there is any information I can offer, let me know. A coworker and I were thinking of building an ECU from scratch, essentially a Megasquirt but made from parts you would buy at say, Sparkfun.com. Would you believe an ECU costs about 30-40 dollars in parts and a handful of hours, if not less for the average 4 cylinder?
-passes soapbox-
If anyone has any questions- let me know. More than happy to help when and where I can.
PS- I'll have a look at my datasheets for the micros used in our ECU, see if I can find any info out; simply altering the information thats already there, or reflashing, and it'd be like a brand new ECU. My datasheets have the inputs and outputs of all the pins for our ECU, so it would be easy to query the MCU and see what it is wanting done.
Hehe, I see electrical engineering written all over this post, and i've got to be honest- i'm excited to donate what information I can.
Warning: Fixing to Nerd out for a few, hope you don't mind. ;D
Just a few notes considering using any ECU from any SFI setup, or moreover any electronic fuel injection setup. They are all the same thing parts wise. Microcontrollers and Microprocessors, inputs and outputs, lows and highs; that's it. Alejo_NIN is correct, the 'gel' used in many electrical applications is what is called a dielectric, nonconductive coating. A fancy, nonconductive RTV if you will. The 'port' located on the top right is either a maintenance port (Able to reflash any updates, or burn a different set of commands, or a 'script' to said ECU/Microcontroller) or an additional, auxiliary set of inputs and outputs. This can be seen on some cars that are produced in a variety of different models and trims, so as to lower the cost of remanufacturing completely different ECUs for the same car, but with say all-wheel drive, or a V-8, or both!) Anyways, this is a very basic rundown as to what happens:
* Microprocessor is miss-spelled above. Not altering.
The Microprocessor reads and interprets information, either gathered directly or through its interdependency with the microcontroller. The information being sent is incredibly basic (0's and 1's, Binary, otherwise known as highs and lows). A High signal could be interpreted as 5v, or 3v- it is given to our 12v system by the battery, and regulated to what voltage we want by a voltage regulator. A low would be seen as 0.0v, or below a set amount as programmed into the Microcontroller. Microcontrollers are in almost anything and everything where it has an output of anything that depends solely on an input that it is given. TVs, remote controls, computers, car radios, everything. Highs and lows, i'm tellin' you!
The Microcontroller makes decisions based on what is kind of a 'script', or a set of implicit rules to follow. For example: The ECU is pinged 5 times with 5 volts DC from the Mass Air Flow sensor. This hits the processor and the processor interprets it as 5 units of air (How much air at this point doesn't matter for the sake of example). It shoots the same signal of 5vdc/5pls to the Microcontroller, which in turn by it's own script (Often written and 'flashed' or 'burned' to it's own memory or memory held within the ECU, much like computer RAM) says it needs to add 1 unit of fuel for every 1 unit of air. It will send a signal out to the fuel injector currently entering its intake phase; Yes, another voltage, or 'high' saying to release fuel for how long. This process happens a few million times a second, or more. For example, a 24MHz processor or controller runs through its script 24 million times a second, otherwise known as 24,000,000 cycles/second, and that certainly isn't a fast one (My computer has a 3.3GHz processor; tallies 3.3 trillion cycles a second, to put it into a sort of perspective). The reason a 24MHz processor/controller or around that speed is used is because believe it or not, that is all that is needed for these basic calculations. All electronic fuel injection systems work this exact same way, whether it be on a Ferrari or a Daihatsu. It's quite a bit to intake, but it has very basic principles and is very easy to replicate across the board. The more pistons, often the more inputs required as far as location of cams, pistons and their current phase (intake, compression, explosion, exhaust), injector, throttle position and air information. In any case, if there is any information I can offer, let me know. A coworker and I were thinking of building an ECU from scratch, essentially a Megasquirt but made from parts you would buy at say, Sparkfun.com. Would you believe an ECU costs about 30-40 dollars in parts and a handful of hours, if not less for the average 4 cylinder?
-passes soapbox-
If anyone has any questions- let me know. More than happy to help when and where I can.
PS- I'll have a look at my datasheets for the micros used in our ECU, see if I can find any info out; simply altering the information thats already there, or reflashing, and it'd be like a brand new ECU. My datasheets have the inputs and outputs of all the pins for our ECU, so it would be easy to query the MCU and see what it is wanting done.
Last edited:
Ricktalife
Member
- :
- 2012 Subaru WRX
Wow, so have you ever tried something like this with your car before? Doesn't seem like you would have much trouble getting it done.
- :
- Banned For Being A Troll
Haltech Sprint 500
Haltech PS 1000
Haltech PS 1000
I took a small stab at this about a year ago with a ROM that was given to me by Sam because more than anything I just want our stupid cars to turn off closed loop under boost, but realized as Jeff has mentioned, there is no MAP in our cars. Our PCM has no way to read boost whatsoever, and we are stuck with the MAF and a narrowband O2. All I could maybe do is lower the closed/open trip RPM and throttle.
I decided to build the megasquirt instead. More of a hobby, learning thing, plus brand name standalones are too damned expensive.
I can say that it is not for the faint of heart there is just way too much information all over the place and nothing that really explains everything in one spot in an organized and concise fashion. Anyone can follow the steps and solder things in place, but understanding why things go where the go and whether or not you really need something is entirely different.
I finally tapped my $215 path harness last week and started reading sensors. I hope to get fuel done sometime this week, then spark, then idle, then boost. I am still debating if I want to pay the $50 for the autotune version of Megastudio. I probably will at this point, but I am really disappointed with the lack of documentation for the program. There is a lot of support out there though if you know where to look and who to ask.
It helps that it's not my only car, but the patch harness makes it very easy to go right back to stock. The most annoying part is actually unplugging the wideband since the LC1 has five connections that are using T taps from the patch harness. So I when I bring the Megasquirt and harness in for modification and tuning, I have to pry those bastards off and my fingers go numb after a few times. I am thinking about building a 6 pin connector like I did for my A/C unit to speed up the process.
I decided to build the megasquirt instead. More of a hobby, learning thing, plus brand name standalones are too damned expensive.
I can say that it is not for the faint of heart there is just way too much information all over the place and nothing that really explains everything in one spot in an organized and concise fashion. Anyone can follow the steps and solder things in place, but understanding why things go where the go and whether or not you really need something is entirely different.
I finally tapped my $215 path harness last week and started reading sensors. I hope to get fuel done sometime this week, then spark, then idle, then boost. I am still debating if I want to pay the $50 for the autotune version of Megastudio. I probably will at this point, but I am really disappointed with the lack of documentation for the program. There is a lot of support out there though if you know where to look and who to ask.
It helps that it's not my only car, but the patch harness makes it very easy to go right back to stock. The most annoying part is actually unplugging the wideband since the LC1 has five connections that are using T taps from the patch harness. So I when I bring the Megasquirt and harness in for modification and tuning, I have to pry those bastards off and my fingers go numb after a few times. I am thinking about building a 6 pin connector like I did for my A/C unit to speed up the process.
UKtheGREAT
Member
- :
- 2003.5 MSP
-->> Ricktalife: lol Not yet. Mine is used as a daily driver for now, so haven't had the priveledge. However, a coworker and myself are planning this very project with one of his project cars. It's an early 90s Ford Probe. You know, the ones that came with the F2T motors, and later on, the FSDE itself. Figured that would be fairly close. The majority of the work is all design.
There are hundreds of ways to go about getting something done, however; deciding on one of them is a little different, many have more pros than cons, so design specifics are sometimes left as vague details until a stab at the prototype. Building the hardware design itself is in essence quite simple enough. Figure out how many inputs your going to have (Fuel inj to include duty cycle and pulse width modulation of said injector, Cam pos sensor, crank pos sensor, throttle pos sensor, etc.), decide how many outputs your going to have (Digital gauge taps right off the ECU, seeing the exact data, converted from voltage to something that means a bit more to us, #s in whichever unit of measurement you desire); alot of decisions to be made. However, if you were wanting an ECU simply to make a car maintain idle and change said idle based on throttle, that is very easy. Decidedly, we're going to tear out the old engine soon, ideally so we can bench check things as things are written, designed and altered without the shell of a car wrapped around ya. I'm certain i'll start a thread once we get something that would be useful here. If this forum were full of electrical engineers, then i'd have loads of information.. but to most, it's a hook up, maybe dabble in the software or take it to get tuned and be done with it deal. Anyways, CustomMSP: I'll do some datamining and send you what I come across when I've got the time, good sir.
There are hundreds of ways to go about getting something done, however; deciding on one of them is a little different, many have more pros than cons, so design specifics are sometimes left as vague details until a stab at the prototype. Building the hardware design itself is in essence quite simple enough. Figure out how many inputs your going to have (Fuel inj to include duty cycle and pulse width modulation of said injector, Cam pos sensor, crank pos sensor, throttle pos sensor, etc.), decide how many outputs your going to have (Digital gauge taps right off the ECU, seeing the exact data, converted from voltage to something that means a bit more to us, #s in whichever unit of measurement you desire); alot of decisions to be made. However, if you were wanting an ECU simply to make a car maintain idle and change said idle based on throttle, that is very easy. Decidedly, we're going to tear out the old engine soon, ideally so we can bench check things as things are written, designed and altered without the shell of a car wrapped around ya. I'm certain i'll start a thread once we get something that would be useful here. If this forum were full of electrical engineers, then i'd have loads of information.. but to most, it's a hook up, maybe dabble in the software or take it to get tuned and be done with it deal. Anyways, CustomMSP: I'll do some datamining and send you what I come across when I've got the time, good sir.
- :
- 03.5 YLW MSP
If these cars have no MAP sensor or boost sensors can someone explain to me why when i dog it from 1st to lets say 3rd. Every time my boost gauge goes into boost or even at zero I run 10 flat even at 2.5k rpms in any gear.. any idea on how the ECU detects that?
2.0t03speed
Member
- :
- 08.5 CWP Speed 3
All protgs have a map sensor it is located behind the passenger side strut tower iirc it is used for the evap system.
