Your first oil change!

[Puyapim]

If you thrash your transmission driving WOT all the time then don’t expect the fluid to be lifetime. Treat it well. Drive sensibly.

 

[Unobtanium]

What sort of proof do you want me to provide? A Mazda filter beside a BMW filter with some sort of specific measurements showing that Mazdas oil filter is smaller then an average filter? Jesus Christ.

I’m not the only one on this forum who mentioned that Mazdas oil filter is small. I just find it really funny that when 3 other people say the same thing as me, no one blinks an eye. But as soon as I start to spread around someone else’s good advice, people like you start to lose their s***..

I digress. The best part is that you ask for proof or some sort of rebutal yet don’t even bother to provide your own argument when you reject my idea. No... you just have to act like a primitive ape and lose your mind when I provide some sort of theory or idea that contradicts whatever the dealerships brainwash you with. It’s kind of ridiculous, and people like you are why this forum isn’t as good as it should be.

Who. Cares? The oil-filter exists mainly to filter out large chunks of crap. It doesn't do much for the small particles of silica that get into the engine due to ineffective air-filter performance. In fact, many race-cars block off the oil-filter...I am unaware of any that run air-filter free. Do you really think the physical size of the oil filter matters that much? Is THAT MUCH crap getting in your engine that you need an XXXL MAGNUM oil-filter to catch it all? I suggest you use an air-filter that's good. The OEM is fine. And not fret over the oil filter. People have shown you plenty of scientific data suggesting that the OEM oil filter is plenty sufficient to the life expectancy of the oil.

"The oil-filter is physically small. It must be ineffective past 3,000 miles, even though Mazda claims it's good for over 10,000, and I say "mazda suggests things for a REASON...(except when I have my own wild unsubstantiated theories...)..."

Seriously? "It looks small, so the filter must be ineffective." That is the basis of your theory? The entire crux of it, even? "The filter looks small."

I'll write this down "Filter performance ineffective, because it looks small to me." and forward my evidence-based concerns to Mazda North America and see if maybe we can lobby for a big filter.

 

[GJ-Molestor]

Who. Cares? The oil-filter exists mainly to filter out large chunks of crap. It doesn't do much for the small particles of silica that get into the engine due to ineffective air-filter performance. In fact, many race-cars block off the oil-filter...I am unaware of any that run air-filter free. Do you really think the physical size of the oil filter matters that much? Is THAT MUCH crap getting in your engine that you need an XXXL MAGNUM oil-filter to catch it all? I suggest you use an air-filter that's good. The OEM is fine. And not fret over the oil filter. People have shown you plenty of scientific data suggesting that the OEM oil filter is plenty sufficient to the life expectancy of the oil.

"The oil-filter is physically small. It must be ineffective past 3,000 miles, even though Mazda claims it's good for over 10,000, and I say "mazda suggests things for a REASON...(except when I have my own wild unsubstantiated theories...)..."

Seriously? "It looks small, so the filter must be ineffective." That is the basis of your theory? The entire crux of it, even? "The filter looks small."

I'll write this down "Filter performance ineffective, because it looks small to me." and forward my evidence-based concerns to Mazda North America and see if maybe we can lobby for a big filter.

No unobtanium, that’s not what I said. I said that the filter is small, which means it starts to lose its effectiveness after 3000 Miles which is why your engine oil suddenly starts to get dirty quicker at this point.

I never said that the filter is so bad that everyone needs to start swapping them out every 3000 Miles. That would be ideal, because your engine oil will stay clean and functional for a lot longer then usual, and DI engines like clean oil but it’s totally not necessary.

Once your motor reaches higher mileage, just be sure to run some sort of engine oil additive or an additive based engine oil like shell rotella through there to help clean things out. I remember my oil filter in the BMW came out looking far cleaner after one interval of shell rotella having used castrol the whole cars life.

 

[Nelson de Leon]

If you guys want to talk about filters, then I think maybe you would like to open a separate thread for that. Plus, maybe you could dwell on filter element gauging it in terms of microns, the total surface area of the filter, and the "flow rate" of oil or air on a filter.

 

[yrwei52]

Bah! I'm at 5000 miles on flex oil with the moly and I'm at 80%.

You may either have lots of highway miles, or you may need an upgrade on your PCM firmware according to a TSB. Mine needed a PCM firmware upgrade or my Flexible oil change maintenance monitor is totally screwed up! (boom07)

If your Oil change due message doesnt come up at either 10,000 miles or 12 months, your Flexible oil change maintenance monitor needs a PCM firmware upgrade.

Personally Id change the factory oil at about 5,000 miles. But do check the version of your PCM firmware whenever you have a chance visiting your Mazda dealer to make sure its up to date.

 

[madar]

You may either have lots of highway miles, or you may need an upgrade on your PCM firmware according to a TSB. Mine needed a PCM firmware upgrade or my Flexible oil change maintenance monitor is totally screwed up! (boom07)

If your “Oil change due” message doesn’t come up at either 10,000 miles or 12 months, your Flexible oil change maintenance monitor needs a PCM firmware upgrade.

Personally I’d change the factory oil at about 5,000 miles. But do check the version of your PCM firmware whenever you have a chance visiting your Mazda dealer to make sure it’s up to date.

My daily commute is 25 miles one way so it has plenty of time to heat up and burn off any moisture or contaminates. I go through 4 municipalities and spend about 8 miles on winding country back roads. I don't think I'd stretch it to 10k, though. Probably around 8k if it says there's still life left. Either way I'm not totally relying on the monitor, just want to see what it says.

 

[yrwei52]

Wow, people really get their panties in a wad over this subject. Why in the world would anyone care if someone else' 'wasted' their money on what some would consider premature oil changes? Strange bunch here..

Anyway... Riddle me this.. Does Mazda have ANY maintenance schedule for SKYACTIV TECHNOLOGY automatic transmissions in the owners manual? I will assume the SKYACTIV TECHNOLOGY automatic transmission doesn't need any form of maintenance because the manufacturer said so right?

We have two sides of argument, we want to present evidence to support our opinions. Not only were trying to persuade the other side, but also we want many CX-5 owners who are seeking recommendations on this subject like OP can have better idea which side he should believe and not to get more confused.

Now we have plenty of UOAs to prove the factory-filled oil have no problem to pass 5K miles, so as the the oil life on possible factory-fill Mazda moly oil used in following oil changes. For those who want to keep the engine oil and filter longer by following either Flexible or Fixed maintenance schedule listed in CX-5 owners manual, they should have no worries of doing it after they saw those UOA reports.

If you want to change your oil at 1K or 3K miles, yeah its your choice. But I have a couple of concerns on this if others took your advice.

Firstly, Mazda uses high-moly factory break-in oil with a purpose like Honda does. Honda openly tells its owners dont change the factory oil early. Mazda says nothing on this but it doesnt specifically say you need to change first oil early either. For 2017 CX-5 like OP, Mazda uses Flexible OCI as the default. This means the first oil change is like the rest, 5K~7.5K miles or 12 months whenever the Oil change due message is displayed. The problem is in the US, even Mazda dealers may use oils not recommended by Mazda. If a new CX-5 owner changes his first oil at 1K miles, hell lose the benefit of high-moly oil immediately which is not good for the engine in the long run!

Secondly, more frequent oil change generates more waste which is not good for environment. Wed think we have used oil recycling system which should protect the environment. But the fact is in the US high percentage of used oil is burned during the recycling process, which caused air pollution issues. I believe in Europe and most other areas Mazda and all other car manufactures specify much longer OCI such as 20,000 km / 12,427 miles or 12 months is to reduce the waste and pollution for environment in addition to reduce maintenance cost for owners. Car manufactures can have much better control on which oil and filter been used in a vehicle which is under warranty, as the owners have to follow the manufacture recommended maintenance schedule or the warranty will be voided.

Used Motor Oil Recycling
Oil is a non-renewable and dwindling global resource, one that most of us depend on every day. Under state law, used oil is classified as a hazardous waste and must either be recycled or disposed or properly.

Currently, more than half of the used oil collected in California is shipped out of state or offshore to be burned as fuel, resulting in toxic air pollution (such as phosphates, sulfur, and heavy metals including zinc, cadmium, copper, lead and benzene) and CO2 being released into the atmosphere. California's strict air emissions standards do not allow the burning of used oil.

As for transmission fluid, thats whole another story ⋯

 

[yrwei52]

If you guys want to talk about filters, then I think maybe you would like to open a separate thread for that. Plus, maybe you could dwell on filter element gauging it in terms of microns, the total surface area of the filter, and the "flow rate" of oil or air on a filter.

I agree. The size of the oil filter is not a deciding factor for the quality and longevity.

And always use Mazda OEM oil filter for the best quality as SkyActiv engines need different specs on oil filter where only Wix makes one which meets specified requirements by Mazda.

 

[yrwei52]

My daily commute is 25 miles one way so it has plenty of time to heat up and burn off any moisture or contaminates. I go through 4 municipalities and spend about 8 miles on winding country back roads. I don't think I'd stretch it to 10k, though. Probably around 8k if it says there's still life left. Either way I'm not totally relying on the monitor, just want to see what it says.

If you reach 12 months mark before 8K miles, itd be interesting to see if your oil change warning would be triggered. Itd be nice if youre willing to send in your oil sample to BlackStone at that time and see the UOA result from a factory fill for 8K miles.

 

[madar]

If you reach 12 months mark before 8K miles, it’d be interesting to see if your oil change warning would be triggered. It’d be nice if you’re willing to send in your oil sample to BlackStone at that time and see the UOA result from a factory fill for 8K miles.

I may have misunderstood the conversation. Are you talking strictly factory fills here? I'm actually on my second oil change with moly. Changed mine originally at 4181 miles. Car currently has 9200 on the clock. Dealer had my car set to 5000 miles fr my first oil change. I intend to switch to Pennzoil next time around.

 

[rj_make]

We have two sides of argument, we want to present evidence to support our opinions. Not only were trying to persuade the other side, but also we want many CX-5 owners who are seeking recommendations on this subject like OP can have better idea which side he should believe and not to get more confused.

I think one would have to be mentally challenged to end up confused by this or any other related thread on this topic. The OP seams quite sharp, and I suspect others who read this in posterity are too, but I digress.

Now we have plenty of UOAs to prove the factory-filled oil have no problem to pass 5K miles, so as the the oil life on possible factory-fill Mazda moly oil used in following oil changes. For those who want to keep the engine oil and filter longer by following either Flexible or Fixed maintenance schedule listed in CX-5 owners manual, they should have no worries of doing it after they saw those UOA reports.

If you want to change your oil at 1K or 3K miles, yeah its your choice.

See that's my point. Why do the "gate keepers" care to the point of dogma (I'll address the "environmental" concern later.) if someone want's to keep cleaner oil in their CX5 over the manufactures recommendation? I think every one can agree the cleaner the oil the better and that one has to balance that with being wasteful with their resources.

But I have a couple of concerns on this if others took your advice.

Firstly, Mazda uses high-moly factory break-in oil with a purpose like Honda does. Honda openly tells its owners dont change the factory oil early. Mazda says nothing on this but it doesnt specifically say you need to change first oil early either. For 2017 CX-5 like OP, Mazda uses Flexible OCI as the default. This means the first oil change is like the rest, 5K~7.5K miles or 12 months whenever the Oil change due message is displayed. The problem is in the US, even Mazda dealers may use oils not recommended by Mazda. If a new CX-5 owner changes his first oil at 1K miles, hell lose the benefit of high-moly oil immediately which is not good for the engine in the long run!

You do realize you are attempting to make a correlation from one manufacturers instructions with another, one on which you called me out on? (engine builder vs Manufactures). Mazda doesn't explicitly say NOT to change the oil before a predetermined value (mileage or time) period, so the (by your own argument) comparison is moot. That said your concerns are noted with the molybdenum disulfide usage. However that is extremely easy to resolve. Simply use the Mazda's Moly OR add ~200ml of molybdenum disulfide to the oil change.

Secondly, more frequent oil change generates more waste which is not good for environment. Wed think we have used oil recycling system which should protect the environment. But the fact is in the US high percentage of used oil is burned during the recycling process, which caused air pollution issues. I believe in Europe and most other areas Mazda and all other car manufactures specify much longer OCI such as 20,000 km / 12,427 miles or 12 months is to reduce the waste and pollution for environment in addition to reduce maintenance cost for owners. Car manufactures can have much better control on which oil and filter been used in a vehicle which is under warranty, as the owners have to follow the manufacture recommended maintenance schedule or the warranty will be voided.

I would suggest a little more research into Oil, specifically Synthetic Oil development and recycling. You may be pleasantly surprised at how much goes back into the working system. Are you suggesting that manufacturers should void warranties based on maintenance schedules that are more rigorous then MFG suggested?

 

[rj_make]

SNIP You added this:

As for transmission fluid, that’s whole another story ⋯

Why is it another story? IMO it's the perfect analog . I think for those who think Mazda engineers are omniscient may perhaps see in a tangible way they are not.

 

[yrwei52]

I may have misunderstood the conversation. Are you talking strictly factory fills here? I'm actually on my second oil change with moly. Changed mine originally at 4181 miles. Car currently has 9200 on the clock. Dealer had my car set to 5000 miles fr my first oil change. I intend to switch to Pennzoil next time around.

I was under the impression that you just got your new 2016.5 CX-5 not long ago due to transmission issues from previous CX-5. Didnt realize youre racking up miles that fast!

 

[madar]

I was under the impression that you just got your new 2016.5 CX-5 not long ago due to transmission issues from previous CX-5. Didnt realize youre racking up miles that fast!

...and loving every mile (yippy)

 

[CX-5um]

If you reach 12 months mark before 8K miles, it’d be interesting to see if your oil change warning would be triggered. It’d be nice if you’re willing to send in your oil sample to BlackStone at that time and see the UOA result from a factory fill for 8K miles.

To be honest, I've yet to see one 0w20 oil analysis not get the 8k+ nod from BlackStone on a skyactiv engine. I'd say folks just choose by name/color of bottle/and fancy technical words and call it a day

That said Team Pennzoil Platinum YO!!!

 

[yrwei52]

To be honest, I've yet to see one 0w20 oil analysis not get the 8k+ nod from BlackStone on a skyactiv engine. I'd say folks just choose by name/color of bottle/and fancy technical words and call it a day

That said Team Pennzoil Platinum YO!!!

Yet some people keep ignoring those UOA’s and believe 1K or 3K OCI is better. Not to mention other regions have been using 20,000 km / 12,427 miles OCI with no ill effect at all!

 

[CX-5um]

Yet some people keep ignoring those UOA’s and believe 1K or 3K OCI is better. Not to mention other regions have been using 20,000 km / 12,427 miles OCI with no ill effect at all!

Pretty interesting article about warnings of extended (15k) oil changes https://blog.modbargains.com/15000-mile-oil-change-myth/

That said not sure why they include pics from super extreme conditions?

"Why do I have such a problem with this lengthy oil change recommendation?
For Manufacturers like BMW, Ford and Mercedes that offer pre-paid scheduled maintenance services, it makes financial sense for them to push out the intervals as long as possible so they have to pay for as few as possible. While today’s oils are dramatically improved over the oil products of just a decade ago – with some even guaranteed for 15,000 miles, there are so many variables to wear and the contaminants that can end up in your oil that such a recommendation could be causing a lot of premature wear and gunking up the inside of your motor. After the warranty period is up, the manufacturer is totally off the hook for your engine, but the thing is, the long term harm of these short intervals probably won’t rear its ugly head till after 100,000 miles – at which point you might need an engine or a very expensive repair service. It’s almost planned obsolescence in action through mechanical failure by deliberate design. "

 

[rj_make]

Yet some people keep ignoring those UOA’s and believe 1K or 3K OCI is better. Not to mention other regions have been using 20,000 km / 12,427 miles OCI with no ill effect at all!

Lest there be any confusion due to me not being clear enough or reader comprehension. The 1 and 3K numbers were recommendations with initial oil changes on new engines (effort to clear high particulate values and perforated/loaded filter media's). After which the recommendation was 3-5K as a subsequent/standard OCI.

 

[rj_make]

Pretty interesting article about warnings of extended (15k) oil changes https://blog.modbargains.com/15000-mile-oil-change-myth/

That said not sure why they include pics from super extreme conditions?

"Why do I have such a problem with this lengthy oil change recommendation?
For Manufacturers like BMW, Ford and Mercedes that offer pre-paid scheduled maintenance services, it makes financial sense for them to push out the intervals as long as possible so they have to pay for as few as possible. While today’s oils are dramatically improved over the oil products of just a decade ago – with some even guaranteed for 15,000 miles, there are so many variables to wear and the contaminants that can end up in your oil that such a recommendation could be causing a lot of premature wear and gunking up the inside of your motor. After the warranty period is up, the manufacturer is totally off the hook for your engine, but the thing is, the long term harm of these short intervals probably won’t rear its ugly head till after 100,000 miles – at which point you might need an engine or a very expensive repair service. It’s almost planned obsolescence in action through mechanical failure by deliberate design. "

I didn't get a chance to read the article yet, but I would guess they used the extreme variant to help present a bias toward an opinion? Off to check out the article.

EDIT: The article didn't have much in the way of evidence for the opinion being presented, but I think it was fairly well reasoned overall.

Again I think it all boils down to balance. We all know 'fresher' oil/oil filter is better, but we also don't want to be wasteful. If it's more balanced for an owner to follow the manufactures recommendation exactly, I say go for it. Perhaps you will wind up saving more money over time.

If you're like me and want to try and preserve the motor for as long as possible ( I push mine to 200+K) then perhaps the balance falls to a more rigorous OCI.

 

[GJ-Molestor]

Pretty interesting article about warnings of extended (15k) oil changes https://blog.modbargains.com/15000-mile-oil-change-myth/

That said not sure why they include pics from super extreme conditions?

"Why do I have such a problem with this lengthy oil change recommendation?
For Manufacturers like BMW, Ford and Mercedes that offer pre-paid scheduled maintenance services, it makes financial sense for them to push out the intervals as long as possible so they have to pay for as few as possible. While today’s oils are dramatically improved over the oil products of just a decade ago – with some even guaranteed for 15,000 miles, there are so many variables to wear and the contaminants that can end up in your oil that such a recommendation could be causing a lot of premature wear and gunking up the inside of your motor. After the warranty period is up, the manufacturer is totally off the hook for your engine, but the thing is, the long term harm of these short intervals probably won’t rear its ugly head till after 100,000 miles – at which point you might need an engine or a very expensive repair service. It’s almost planned obsolescence in action through mechanical failure by deliberate design. "

That is precisely what the manufacturers are trying to do. Same with recommending that you dont change the transmission fluid. You will only suffer drivetrain issues from following these pieces of advice conveniently when your warranty is up, resulting in expensive out of pocket repairs.