Priceless! Thanks Wurf.
Why you should go AccessPort with any sort of mods
- Thread starter chimmike
- Start date
Priceless! Thanks Wurf.
fishdonotbounce
Registered Zombie
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- 08.5 CWP Speed3
Ok enough bulls*** in here. The cock measuring contest is stupid.
^ Kindly identify mods, fuel type and other performance enhancements other than AP tune. Was the run made with mods as in signature, including the E85 concoction for fuel and the 3BAR Bosch MAP and recalibration, etc.
Just about had to be E85 to run 24 psi boost tapering to 20 at redline on the stock K04 with AFR's in the 12's and to avoid dangerous KR. No other plausable explanation. And that mandates the 3 bar MAP sensor mod and special tuning so as to get beyond the stock sensor maxing out at about 21-22 psi, right?
What tires were on the vehicle and did it lose traction below 4,000 rpm resulting in the torque spike?
Was a 30 shot of NOS involved?
Was the run in 3rd gear or 4th? Data log post maybe?
Just want a few basic facts regarding the conditions in which that run was made.
I'd still like to see what AP custom tunes are doing with similar mods to mine on the stock K04 turbo and on the premium pump fuel that 99% of us are using. I'm still not seeing any benefit from AP. This certainly does not support the orginal proposition of OP that AP is better for any state of mods.
At best, it establishes what we already know - AP is a great tuning tool for big turbo swaps, for E85 and other exotic fueling concoctions and other "built" engines that are not running pump gas on the stock K04, but has not been shown to be better for the typical owner with bolt on mods with a stock turbo on pump gas.
This chart does not establish superiority over HT for the overwhelming majority of MZR DISI engined cars running on the stock turbo, bolt-ons and on the kind of fuel we can get at our local gas stations. I'm still waiting to be convinced by objective evidence otherwise. No evidence, no proof, just unsupported opinion.
Just about had to be E85 to run 24 psi boost tapering to 20 at redline on the stock K04 with AFR's in the 12's and to avoid dangerous KR. No other plausable explanation. And that mandates the 3 bar MAP sensor mod and special tuning so as to get beyond the stock sensor maxing out at about 21-22 psi, right?
What tires were on the vehicle and did it lose traction below 4,000 rpm resulting in the torque spike?
Was a 30 shot of NOS involved?
Was the run in 3rd gear or 4th? Data log post maybe?
Just want a few basic facts regarding the conditions in which that run was made.
I'd still like to see what AP custom tunes are doing with similar mods to mine on the stock K04 turbo and on the premium pump fuel that 99% of us are using. I'm still not seeing any benefit from AP. This certainly does not support the orginal proposition of OP that AP is better for any state of mods.
At best, it establishes what we already know - AP is a great tuning tool for big turbo swaps, for E85 and other exotic fueling concoctions and other "built" engines that are not running pump gas on the stock K04, but has not been shown to be better for the typical owner with bolt on mods with a stock turbo on pump gas.
This chart does not establish superiority over HT for the overwhelming majority of MZR DISI engined cars running on the stock turbo, bolt-ons and on the kind of fuel we can get at our local gas stations. I'm still waiting to be convinced by objective evidence otherwise. No evidence, no proof, just unsupported opinion.
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- :
- 06 LS MS6
07 BM GT (shell has been struck from the roll)
- :
- 06 LS MS6
07 BM GT (shell has been struck from the roll)
so we go from the careful manipulation of multiple ATR tables to chucking in some 25~50% blend of a fuel mazda didnt account for.......
I'm down
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- 06 LS MS6
07 BM GT (shell has been struck from the roll)
Oh, while the weaner stick is out,........
my 3/4 shot pair of proxes RA-1's i got for 65 bux
Stupid grip
its like driving Montu
my 3/4 shot pair of proxes RA-1's i got for 65 bux
Stupid grip
its like driving Montu
This was my car, fully bolted, 50/50 e85 mix, with a 30 shot of nitrous from a dry ZEX kit. 4th gear. I have more accurate results below:
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According to a Google search for E85 locations, the closest source for me in in New Orleans, an hour and a half away each way. That's if I wanted to ever run it which I don't and suspect that 95-99% of MZR DISI engine users would not. Those are nice numbers, I'll admit, especially with the 30 shot on top, but again, I'm not going to do that to my daily driver.
What are the issues regarding lines, hoses and other fuel parts deteriorization with E85 on an engine the factory did not set up for that fuel? Doesn't E-85 desolve plastic and rubber and is corrosive? Read some articles about that. Even a 50% mixture with fuel that is already E10 is going to be very high in methanol content.
If it's all the same, I'll stick to pump gas and avoid all those risks - risks from making a mistake in the tune and risk from running a fuel mixture that is harmful to plastic and rubber and corrosive. Maybe fine for a dedicated race car where the lines can be flushed at the end of the race day and the tank emptied.
What are the issues regarding lines, hoses and other fuel parts deteriorization with E85 on an engine the factory did not set up for that fuel? Doesn't E-85 desolve plastic and rubber and is corrosive? Read some articles about that. Even a 50% mixture with fuel that is already E10 is going to be very high in methanol content.
If it's all the same, I'll stick to pump gas and avoid all those risks - risks from making a mistake in the tune and risk from running a fuel mixture that is harmful to plastic and rubber and corrosive. Maybe fine for a dedicated race car where the lines can be flushed at the end of the race day and the tank emptied.
Big Eldorado
Member
- :
- Protege es 2002
MANNNNN lets just say all you guys have some great knowledge, you've all gathered real experiance through the trials of tuning.
Now I can sit here and tell you that the 0-320-D2J in the Cessna 172P, years 1980-1986, was a great engine due to revised design on the oil circulation. No longer did it shave your cam down like your local barber. I can also tell you my EX already measured my dick, and its bigger than average.
All this info is not helpful here. What us simple folk were looking for is a pro/con honest look at this HT vs. COBB AP discussion.
My conclusion; HT seems to make almost the same power on stock turbo/stock FP with simple bolt-ons safely cuz of the rich AFR. If you wanna make some REAL ****** power you get that AP and tune your cars nuts off. Seems like thats what i should take from this long winded thread??
OH also, up here in the amazing, beautiful Canada we have 94 octane pump gas. Does either tuner have something for this??
(breakn)(jerkit)
Now I can sit here and tell you that the 0-320-D2J in the Cessna 172P, years 1980-1986, was a great engine due to revised design on the oil circulation. No longer did it shave your cam down like your local barber. I can also tell you my EX already measured my dick, and its bigger than average.
All this info is not helpful here. What us simple folk were looking for is a pro/con honest look at this HT vs. COBB AP discussion.
My conclusion; HT seems to make almost the same power on stock turbo/stock FP with simple bolt-ons safely cuz of the rich AFR. If you wanna make some REAL ****** power you get that AP and tune your cars nuts off. Seems like thats what i should take from this long winded thread??
OH also, up here in the amazing, beautiful Canada we have 94 octane pump gas. Does either tuner have something for this??
(breakn)(jerkit)
Big Eldo,
Canada is indeed beautiful. I particularly like the west coast area but most of Canada that I've seen is great. I love Hockey too so there you go.
As a life long resident of Michigan I almost feel a little Canadian. It might be because we've buried thousands of tons of Canadian waste in Michigan landfills over the years, or might be because I've crossed the border so many times to go on fishing trips. Then there's your money. The coins.......they always end up in some change around here. We used loathe them a bit, but not anymore because they're more valuable than ours.
I want to say the HT has a setting for 94 octane fuel but I'm not sure because I don't own one yet. Maybe MSMS3 can chime in.
Waiting for another unit to come up for sale here and try to get it before somebody buys it out from under me again.
Canada is indeed beautiful. I particularly like the west coast area but most of Canada that I've seen is great. I love Hockey too so there you go.
As a life long resident of Michigan I almost feel a little Canadian. It might be because we've buried thousands of tons of Canadian waste in Michigan landfills over the years, or might be because I've crossed the border so many times to go on fishing trips. Then there's your money. The coins.......they always end up in some change around here. We used loathe them a bit, but not anymore because they're more valuable than ours.
I want to say the HT has a setting for 94 octane fuel but I'm not sure because I don't own one yet. Maybe MSMS3 can chime in.
Waiting for another unit to come up for sale here and try to get it before somebody buys it out from under me again.
HT tune works great with the 93 octane I get here. It does not have a "setting" but I do get better power with 93 than with 91. My guess is that it works in conjunction with the stock ECU to allow more timing advance if it's not seeing knock retard. I'm seeing about 17 degrees timing advance on 93 octane.
I wouldn't think one more octane rating would raise an issue and it might just allow a little more timing advance. Hell, I suppose I could put some octane boost in on top of the 93 to raise it a full point and give it a try, just out of curiosity.
I wouldn't think one more octane rating would raise an issue and it might just allow a little more timing advance. Hell, I suppose I could put some octane boost in on top of the 93 to raise it a full point and give it a try, just out of curiosity.
Big Eldorado
Member
- :
- Protege es 2002
Haha Wurf man I gotta say sorry for that, I live in Toronto and you guys have taken so much of our trash I can't imagine. The change is just annoying, the smallest bill you can toss at a stripper in a 5$. And if you carry change you lose it real quick.
Who doesn't love hockey...seriously? (breakn)
I'm enjoying buying car parts from you yanks finally though, to spend 40 cents on your dollar just felt like getting f'd in the B.
I've actually noticed i get just a few more kms with 94. Not much, maybe 30kms more in the city...but still a lil' something.
I pulled up beside a MS3 the other day, sounded amazing so i had to ask...why? Intake and HT. Guy said it was like a new car, so fast.
But to be honest it was MSMS3 here that supplied SO much info that its hard to ignore, Im thinking a HT is in my future. The arguments seem to boil down to personal preference. Its like ppl who own Apple comps vs. PC, the debate rages. Since i just want a lil' more and the CoBb doesn't seem to offer anymore for simple bolt-ons it seems like the right fit for me.
GOD BLESS AMERICA, you're all nuts but we love you
(kiss)
Who doesn't love hockey...seriously? (breakn)
I'm enjoying buying car parts from you yanks finally though, to spend 40 cents on your dollar just felt like getting f'd in the B.
I've actually noticed i get just a few more kms with 94. Not much, maybe 30kms more in the city...but still a lil' something.
I pulled up beside a MS3 the other day, sounded amazing so i had to ask...why? Intake and HT. Guy said it was like a new car, so fast.
But to be honest it was MSMS3 here that supplied SO much info that its hard to ignore, Im thinking a HT is in my future. The arguments seem to boil down to personal preference. Its like ppl who own Apple comps vs. PC, the debate rages. Since i just want a lil' more and the CoBb doesn't seem to offer anymore for simple bolt-ons it seems like the right fit for me.
GOD BLESS AMERICA, you're all nuts but we love you
(kiss)
Hey,
E85 mixes seem to have 0 detrimental results on this platform. I have been running it consistently for approximately 8k miles so far and my lines/ fuel pump/ etc show no sign of abnormal wear or damage. It's been pretty nice, to be honest. Also of note, the e85 content is allowing me to run the SAME map I was running before and simply target richer AFR's for the nitrous. I haven't pulled timing at all and there is 0 knock. Pretty cool little machine we have here.
I hope you're right. 8,000 miles may not be enough to tell.
I know from my experience with two cycle outboard motors, chain saws, gas trimmers and other such things that even E10 is extremely corrosive and damaging to those fuel systems. We have to search out gasoline suppliers that advertise and promote zero ethanol at the their pumps. Maybe since our tanks, fuel pumps (low pressure and high pressure) lines, rails and such are "hardened" if you will to withstand E10 they would be o.k. with E85 and the only issue would be tune. I just don't know. Some of our fuel lines are metal and I don't know the composition of the soft lines. I'd not be inclined to trust the life of my engine to high percentages of ethanol in the fuel.
I know from my experience with two cycle outboard motors, chain saws, gas trimmers and other such things that even E10 is extremely corrosive and damaging to those fuel systems. We have to search out gasoline suppliers that advertise and promote zero ethanol at the their pumps. Maybe since our tanks, fuel pumps (low pressure and high pressure) lines, rails and such are "hardened" if you will to withstand E10 they would be o.k. with E85 and the only issue would be tune. I just don't know. Some of our fuel lines are metal and I don't know the composition of the soft lines. I'd not be inclined to trust the life of my engine to high percentages of ethanol in the fuel.
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Can't comment on AP's launch control, as I am an HT user.
But FFS, if you meen flat shifting, I have done that since just about day one, even on stock ECU. Since the turbo is out of its efficiency range, even with a tune much above 6,000 rpm, there is no reason to flat shift at redline.
I can and do flat shift at 6,000 rpm and fall back into the fat part of the torque curve WOT. I know that I have 700 rpm of "headspace" before hitting the rev limiter. I've done this hundreds of time, literally hundreds of time, on both stock tune and with HT with no harm. I'm at 64,000 miles of "very spirited" driving. You just don't want to be regularly bouncing off the rev limiter, even though it is a soft limiter.
Big turbo guys have demonstrated over and over again that the engine itself is safe to 7,000 rpm even though it would not make power that high on the stock turbo. Beyond that you could get into some valve float issues on the stock valve train regardless of other mods.
But having said that, if you were worried about hitting the rev limiter on a flat shift, then HT will allow you to raise the rev limiter, so move it to 7,000 and give yourself an additional 300 rpm of headroom for the rpm spike. I haven't had to.
But FFS, if you meen flat shifting, I have done that since just about day one, even on stock ECU. Since the turbo is out of its efficiency range, even with a tune much above 6,000 rpm, there is no reason to flat shift at redline.
I can and do flat shift at 6,000 rpm and fall back into the fat part of the torque curve WOT. I know that I have 700 rpm of "headspace" before hitting the rev limiter. I've done this hundreds of time, literally hundreds of time, on both stock tune and with HT with no harm. I'm at 64,000 miles of "very spirited" driving. You just don't want to be regularly bouncing off the rev limiter, even though it is a soft limiter.
Big turbo guys have demonstrated over and over again that the engine itself is safe to 7,000 rpm even though it would not make power that high on the stock turbo. Beyond that you could get into some valve float issues on the stock valve train regardless of other mods.
But having said that, if you were worried about hitting the rev limiter on a flat shift, then HT will allow you to raise the rev limiter, so move it to 7,000 and give yourself an additional 300 rpm of headroom for the rpm spike. I haven't had to.
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So you mean that you are able to shift from 6000rpm and lift back the clutch before the engine is on the rev limiter? I should try that!!
