why do people stretch tires?

[magnumP5]

I'm trying to keep this debate civil.

I see what you're getting at - maintaining tire width while changing wheel width. In that case, yes, the tire contact patch will not change theoretically no matter how wide the wheel you put on it. However, the weight matter doesn't go away. If you take a Protege with 215/40R17 (stock tire diameter for a non-MP3/MSP Protege in 17") on a 17x7 and bump the wheel up to a 17x8 all you are doing is increasing weight (assuming constant wheel "design"). Increase to a 18x8 and you're increasing the wheel weight even more with a slight tire weight reduction by going down to a 215/35R18. My point is, if you can only fit a 215-series tire, why bother fitting a 17x9 wheel? Tire flex can be reduced by running quality tires to the point where being mounted on a 17x7 or a 17x8 won't matter. If that is the case, then what other reason, other than appearance is there to run such wide wheels and stretch tires. I think part of the illusion is going from a stock tire size with aspect ratios usually being 50 or greater to something stretched with a small aspect ratio (40 or lower). Obviously there is improvement, but it is by no means the best "handling" setup.

But you're right, all my knowledge comes from watching racing and discussion matters with the Tech's. All the Grand-Am RX-8's run 18x8 wheels, I believe. I can't remember the tire size but I can tell you there was no stretch and good amount of sidewall. All I'm saying is that if a 19x10 wheel gave them better performance, they would run it.

 

[yudkib]

the reason drifters would stretch tires is to reduce the contact patch so they can break traction more easily in underpowered applications. its the same reason they run the tires over the recommended PSI.
conversely, drag cars run under recommended pressure to increase the contact patch for a straight-line race.

you should do neither of those if you actually want to corner. including stretch your tires.

 

[HKPRO5]

The drift guys in Japan did it to cut the cost down on tires by purchasing smaller tires and "stretching" them to the rim. More money= more tires. agreed with the looks only.

 

[Wagonbacker9]

The drift guys in Japan did it to cut the cost down on tires by purchasing smaller tires and "stretching" them to the rim. More money= more tires. agreed with the looks only.

I guess that makes SOME sense, seeing as they burn through tires like none other, but with the build cost of most of those cars, (and rebuilding when they spin out) I just don't see the cost of tires really factoring in.

 

[magnumP5]

the reason drifters would stretch tires is to reduce the contact patch so they can break traction more easily in underpowered applications.

Again, while this is in practice quite a lot (unfortunately) it really isn't necessary. In any RWD vehicle (even a Miata or N/A RX-7) enter a corner a little faster than recommended and see what happens - the rear will kick out slightly. In regular racing this is detrimental so we maintain throttle input and countersteer accordingly. In drifting this is exaggerated even more by the use of braking. However, what I failed to remember, and that Carl reminded me, was drifting also awards "style" points so obviously bigger, flashier wheels help.

 

[HKPRO5]

I'm talking about the non pro guys. The ones that do it for fun. Low budget drifting. lol

I have fat ass tires on my FDs lo

 

[vw2p5]

Okay so as far as I've read, the only benefit to stretching tires is to put smaller tires on larger rims for fitment issues, and looks. Their is no other handling benefit, ride benefit, or anything like that. And to top it off, it's not safe. Well thanks everyone for the heads up.

 

[Wagonbacker9]

In any RWD vehicle (even a Miata or N/A RX-7) enter a corner a little faster than recommended and see what happens - the rear will kick out slightly.

Same goes for my MSP... not sure if it is the car, tires, suspension, or just my driving style, but my car starts to oversteer (unless I have the throttle mashed) rather than understeer if I come into a corner at about 2.2x the "recommended" corner speed under light throttle.

Okay so as far as I've read, the only benefit to stretching tires is to put smaller tires on larger rims for fitment issues, and looks. Their is no other handling benefit, ride benefit, or anything like that. And to top it off, it's not safe. Well thanks everyone for the heads up.

Precisely correct.

 

[magnumP5]

Okay so as far as I've read, the only benefit to stretching tires is to put smaller tires on larger rims for fitment issues, and looks. Their is no other handling benefit, ride benefit, or anything like that. And to top it off, it's not safe. Well thanks everyone for the heads up.

Appearance is the main reason. From the above posts it's obvious there are differences in opinion regarding handling and performance and the guys the champion the scene will say there's no safety concern and to be honest I've never seen a tire pop off as a result. It really comes down to what YOU want to do. If over all performance is your goal I'd like to suggest a well-balanced wheel/tire combintion and there are many threads regarding what works and what doesn't. If appearance is your thing I'd get in touch with the Slammed Thread/Aggressive Fitment Thread guys as they know far more about the subject than I do.

Same goes for my MSP... not sure if it is the car, tires, suspension, or just my driving style, but my car starts to oversteer (unless I have the throttle mashed) rather than understeer if I come into a corner at about 2.2x the "recommended" corner speed under light throttle.

Are you sure you aren't slightly lifting throttle at all? Almost sounds like off-throttle oversteer, which I've encountered many times both in my old P5 and now the RX-7. If I kept my foot into it the old P5 would end up just pushing right through the corner.

 

[Wagonbacker9]

Appearance is the main reason. From the above posts it's obvious there are differences in opinion regarding handling and performance and the guys the champion the scene will say there's no safety concern and to be honest I've never seen a tire pop off as a result. It really comes down to what YOU want to do. If over all performance is your goal I'd like to suggest a well-balanced wheel/tire combintion and there are many threads regarding what works and what doesn't. If appearance is your thing I'd get in touch with the Slammed Thread/Aggressive Fitment Thread guys as they know far more about the subject than I do.

It is not hard to find pictures of tires with shredded sidewalls though... which has to lead me to believe there is danger in it.

 

[justanothermp5]

Okay so as far as I've read, the only benefit to stretching tires is to put smaller tires on larger rims for fitment issues, and looks. Their is no other handling benefit, ride benefit, or anything like that. And to top it off, it's not safe. Well thanks everyone for the heads up.

uhh...not really any proof that its any less safe then a regular tire, but the rest of it is pretty much true
there are pictures, of shredded tires, yes, but nowhere does it say the brand, or what size tire on what size rim, so its hard to say for sure

my brother runs 195/40's on a 8.5" wheel, its bumpy as hell, you feel every little rock on the road, but i havent heard him say anything about handling or traction being an issue

 

[Wagonbacker9]

uhh...not really any proof that its any less safe then a regular tire, but the rest of it is pretty much true
there are pictures, of shredded tires, yes, but nowhere does it say the brand, or what size tire on what size rim, so its hard to say for sure

my brother runs 195/40's on a 8.5" wheel, its bumpy as hell, you feel every little rock on the road, but i havent heard him say anything about handling or traction being an issue

Oh christ.

A) If there IS potential for your sidewall to contact the fender lip, that right there is unsafe. You can argue the semantics of it all day, but it doesn't change the fact. Most of the pics I've seen came up under a search for "stretch" so... if you want to say they're not correlated, by all means, go right ahead. But I would say regardless of manufacturer or size, using a "stretched" stance encourages you to have a fitment which has potential for your tire to contact the body of the car, with resultant disaster being documented in said pictures.

B) less traction in an emergency situation = less safe. simple as that. having big ass tires on the ground allows me to get myself out of trouble when other people do stupid s***, and it's saved my ass more than a few times.

C) stretching could lead unseating the bead, which could lead to a loss of control of the vehicle. Not saying its overly likely, but the tire manufactures recommend a wheel width for a given tire for a reason beyond "I felt like it".. so I tend to lend it some credibility

 

[justanothermp5]

Oh christ.

A) If there IS potential for your sidewall to contact the fender lip, that right there is unsafe. You can argue the semantics of it all day, but it doesn't change the fact. Most of the pics I've seen came up under a search for "stretch" so... if you want to say they're not correlated, by all means, go right ahead.

B) less traction in an emergency situation = less safe. simple as that.

C) stretching could lead unseating the bead, which could lead to a loss of control of the vehicle. Not saying its overly likely, but the tire manufactures recommend a wheel width for a given tire for a reason beyond "I felt like it".. so I tend to lend it some credibility

A. How does stretching tire automatically make your car low enough to hit the fender lip? It doesnt, next question

B. 195's are the stock size tire on dx protege's, so he has plenty of tread AND traction according to mazda

C. COULD, COULD, LIKELY, all words that mean: I'm making s*** up here

 

[Wagonbacker9]

A. How does stretching tire automatically make your car low enough to hit the fender lip? It doesnt, next question
Height has nothing to do with it. suspensions compress. ANY suspension can be bottomed out in the right circumstance.
B. 195's are the stock size tire on dx protege's, so he has plenty of tread AND traction according to mazda
yep, and I love having more. if I'm going to up the wheel width, it'll be for a good reason
C. COULD, COULD, LIKELY, all words that mean: I'm making s*** up here
yep, I'm full of s***. so are tire manufacturers

 

[justanothermp5]

lol ok
Welllllll, any suspension can compress and bottom out under the right circumstances, very true,
but i can stretch a ****** motorcycle tire on my 16x6 stock wheels
and do i have stretch: yes, can i bottom out: sure, will i hit the sidewall on the fender lip: FAWK NO

this is about tire stretching, not low offset wheels, even though most people who run low offset wheels stretch tires, its not always vice-versa

 

[yudkib]

its true, carl has no idea what hes talking about.

 

[magnumP5]

...and I was just about the say this was the most civil stretched/un-stretched discussion I've ever seen.

I think the conclusions are as follows:

1. Stretched tires are primarily used to fit wide wheels and is mostly an appearance-thing.
2. While there may be some handling/performance benefit of stretched tires over a stock setup it is not the best handling/performing combination.
3. While not required to do so, stretching is common in the drifting scene for "style points" and/or to run cheaper rubber and provide less traction.
4. The stretched setup may/may not be safe/unsafe depending on the amount of stretch, the tires used, the manner the car is driven, where the car is driven, etc., etc., etc.
5. The decision to stretch/not stretch is up to the OWNER of the car and the decision should be based on what HE/SHE plans to do with HIS/HER car.
6. Wagonbacker9 and justanothermp5 will get into an argument regardless of the thread topic.

Did I miss anything?

 

[Wagonbacker9]

...and I was just about the say this was the most civil stretched/un-stretched discussion I've ever seen.

I think the conclusions are as follows:

1. Stretched tires are primarily used to fit wide wheels and is mostly an appearance-thing.
2. While there may be some handling/performance benefit of stretched tires over a stock setup it is not the best handling/performing combination.
3. While not required to do so, stretching is common in the drifting scene for "style points" and/or to run cheaper rubber and provide less traction.
4. The stretched setup may/may not be safe/unsafe depending on the amount of stretch, the tires used, the manner the car is driven, where the car is driven, etc., etc., etc.
5. The decision to stretch/not stretch is up to the OWNER of the car and the decision should be based on what HE/SHE plans to do with HIS/HER car.
6. Wagonbacker9 and justanothermp5 will get into an argument regardless of the thread topic.

Did I miss anything?

1. Yep
2. Yep
3. Sure
4. Sounds reasonable
5. Absolutely
6. Yep
7. Disinformation being spread across the forum is really irritating.

 

[jonridinhi]

I left and we all still agree. Especially on 6!!!

 

[justanothermp5]

...and I was just about the say this was the most civil stretched/un-stretched discussion I've ever seen.

I think the conclusions are as follows:

1. Stretched tires are primarily used to fit wide wheels and is mostly an appearance-thing.
2. While there may be some handling/performance benefit of stretched tires over a stock setup it is not the best handling/performing combination.
3. While not required to do so, stretching is common in the drifting scene for "style points" and/or to run cheaper rubber and provide less traction.
4. The stretched setup may/may not be safe/unsafe depending on the amount of stretch, the tires used, the manner the car is driven, where the car is driven, etc., etc., etc.
5. The decision to stretch/not stretch is up to the OWNER of the car and the decision should be based on what HE/SHE plans to do with HIS/HER car.
6. Wagonbacker9 and justanothermp5 will get into an argument regardless of the thread topic.

Did I miss anything?

hahaha yea, that sounds about right