Twiggy Sticks Install, tuning and results thread

[ctt 1982]

thanks lord. sent you another pm

 

[Crazee D]

just to use as a starting point for tuning presuming we have adj gears?
What about per tooth?
How many degrees is a one tooth manual adv/ret equal too?

 

[LordWorm]

just to use as a starting point for tuning presuming we have adj gears?
What about per tooth?
How many degrees is a one tooth manual adv/ret equal too?

NFI mate - all the adjustable cam gears i have ever seen, have degree markings on them of one sort or another (usually in multiples of 5 or 10). You can work it out by counting the teeth.... 720 degrees per cam gear (2 revolutions of the gear = 1 revolution of the crank) so divide number of teeth by 720 and you should be right if my high school maths doesn't fail me.....(i can't remember though, if the timing is relative to the gear or to a complete engine revolution... i.e. if 2 degrees of cam advance is 2 degrees of 360, or 2 degrees of 720.....its 12:12am and my brain is a little fuzzy...)


Its also just a guide - if you have adjustable gears, all these figures will do is get you back to what it would be if you had the right cams for your application - but its by no means "optimum" for everyone. least it gives you a starting point - but i'd certainly get them dialed in for better power if i had the gears!

 

[ctt 1982]

got a question. to advance the cams, the middle portion would be turned clock-wise with relation to the outside? that's how i'm picturing it in my head but wouldn't be surprized if i have it backwards.

 

[Crazee D]

got a question. to advance the cams, the middle portion would be turned clock-wise with relation to the outside? that's how i'm picturing it in my head but wouldn't be surprized if i have it backwards.

OK now I'm in need of a visual aid

 

[Crazee D]

http://www.camcraftcams.com/camshafttuning.htm

The Black Mystic Art of Cam Timing! Part One
http://www.symuli.com/vw/camp1.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camshaft#Timing

 

[ctt 1982]

thanks for the links crazee

i'm still having issues with the car. it still gets hung up @ 4500. it runs perfect up to that point. it doesn't matter what i set the ajustable cam gears at(i've tested every possible combination). nothing seems to affect when i hit the 'wall'. i have no idea what would be causing that. any ideas are greatly appreciated. once i have this issue solved, i'll finally get her dyno tuned.

 

[hi-perf]

thanks for the links crazee

i'm still having issues with the car. it still gets hung up @ 4500. it runs perfect up to that point. it doesn't matter what i set the ajustable cam gears at(i've tested every possible combination). nothing seems to affect when i hit the 'wall'. i have no idea what would be causing that. any ideas are greatly appreciated. once i have this issue solved, i'll finally get her dyno tuned.

what are you running or are you on stock ECU?

 

[Crazee D]

Yah, we need details of your setup and best possible description of what is happening at "the wall"

 

[ctt 1982]

i'm running the microtech. i've got a pretty decent tune, so doubt the tune is the issue. the afr's are good when it happens. i don't think it's either spark or fuel issues but i could be wrong.
at 4500, it stumbles. like it just tripped over it's feet. no knock or misfire. just feels like all fuel gets cut or something.
i'm pretty sure it's not a vacuum leak as it idles ok and runs perfect till 4500.
the only other thing that was done when the cams/gears were installed was bumping the idle up. i doubt that would cause this.
looks like i'll be taking the valve cover off tonight to make sure the timing isn't off a tooth or something.

 

[LordWorm]

i'm running the microtech. i've got a pretty decent tune, so doubt the tune is the issue. the afr's are good when it happens. i don't think it's either spark or fuel issues but i could be wrong.
at 4500, it stumbles. like it just tripped over it's feet. no knock or misfire. just feels like all fuel gets cut or something.
i'm pretty sure it's not a vacuum leak as it idles ok and runs perfect till 4500.
the only other thing that was done when the cams/gears were installed was bumping the idle up. i doubt that would cause this.
looks like i'll be taking the valve cover off tonight to make sure the timing isn't off a tooth or something.

you havn't mistakenly installed the cams the wrong way have you? (intake on the exhaust side and visa versa)

check your MT soft cut and hard cut rev limiters as well - insure you havn't accidently loaded up a map which has these set low.

 

[Crazee D]

Any updates?
I got my cylinder head in the mail. yay

 

[LordWorm]

another though ctt: check that you havn't got the microtech set to lock timing... apparently (according to some microtech guru's around here) that'll cause it to die in the bum between 3k and 4k rpm...

 

[ctt 1982]

i still haven't found what the problem is. the cam gears are lined up perfectly('e' on exhaust gear is in-line with 'i' on intake gear). the cams are not installed back wards (intake is starting to open as the exhaust is closing). the cam gears are not slipping. the soft cut is set @ 6750 and hard cut @7250. the timing is not locked. i've got logs that show the timing is advancing as it should. the plugs all look good so i know i don't have a dead cylinder(s).

i'm completely at a loss, this is starting to stress me out a little, too. i don't want to dip into the dyno tune fund to sort this s*** out. i'd hate to throw the stock cams in to see if that solves it. that's kind of the last resort. please keep the ideas coming.
thanks for all your help so far, guys

 

[LordWorm]

i still haven't found what the problem is. the cam gears are lined up perfectly('e' on exhaust gear is in-line with 'i' on intake gear). the cams are not installed back wards (intake is starting to open as the exhaust is closing). the cam gears are not slipping. the soft cut is set @ 6750 and hard cut @7250. the timing is not locked. i've got logs that show the timing is advancing as it should. the plugs all look good so i know i don't have a dead cylinder(s).

i'm completely at a loss, this is starting to stress me out a little, too. i don't want to dip into the dyno tune fund to sort this s*** out. i'd hate to throw the stock cams in to see if that solves it. that's kind of the last resort. please keep the ideas coming.
thanks for all your help so far, guys

You have a microtech log?

Pm me, i'll give you my email addy, send the log file over to me and i'll see if that answers any questions.

Further to that - can you define the problem a little bit more. Is it "just like" a rev cut... or is it slightly different. Is it a sensation of "doughiness" along with an inability to rev? does it lead up to the problem or is the problem just like hitting an instant brick wall, does it surge back up to the 4500 or does it just sit there?

When i said "are your cams in backwards" i meant, do you ahve the intake and exhaust cams in the wrong place - have you swapped them around by mistake.....

Have you changed anything else around the time when you did the cams?



I'd also try getting everything computer wise back to the simpliest possible set up you can have. Turn off all the inputs and outputs (double check that they are all off, even if you are not using them for anything), go into normal mode (idle/load tuning). Recalibrate your TPS. Double check your ignition and injector wiring. Then triple check it.

But yeah, send me the log and let me have a look at it.

 

[Crazee D]

You have a microtech log?

When i said "are your cams in backwards" i meant, do you ahve the intake and exhaust cams in the wrong place - have you swapped them around by mistake.....

Have you changed anything else around the time when you did the cams?

I'd also try getting everything computer wise back to the simpliest possible set up you can have. Turn off all the inputs and outputs (double check that they are all off, even if you are not using them for anything), go into normal mode (idle/load tuning). Recalibrate your TPS. Double check your ignition and injector wiring. Then triple check it.

Great advice!

 

[ctt 1982]

i've got you email addy in a pm, i'll send a log your way tonight.

it is very similar to a rev cut in that the rev's will oscillate ~100-200 rpm and will not climb at all. it does not lead up to the problem. it's just like flipping a light switch. if i go WOT, it happens a couple hundred rpm sooner than if i accel @ 40%tps. also at light throttle it's more of a sputter compared to WOT where it's more like tapping off the limiter.

i pretty sure that the cams are installed correctly on there respective side. i'm also under the impression that if the intake cam was installed on the exhaust side and vice versa, that the car would not run at all. so i'm sure that can be ruled out. and like i said, the exhaust is closing as the intake is opening. it would be opposite if the cams were swapped, wouldn't it?
the only other thing that was changed was that the idle was bumped up. i've played with the AAS idle screw a bit today but hasn't solved it yet. i'm starting to wonder it they messed with the TAS idle screw, the one the manual says not to touch. i'll play with that tonight to see if that changes anything.

all the inputs/outputs are turned off. the tps is zeroed. i loaded an older map. i'll try normal mode and check all my wiring tonight.

it still has me so confused that it runs awesome till 4500 and then pretty much shuts down. i'll see if i can borrow my sister's video camera and take a few vids of it tomorrow.

i'll let you know how it goes.

 

[LordWorm]

ctt - i've emailed you some new thoughts...need some clarification on what you were doing when you took that log...not sure if its a dogs breakfast because you were trying to sort things out, or because its the problem....

another quick thought - is there anyway you can turn the J&S off? so it just passes through?

Microtech is going to log timing as it sees it go out of the computer... "i'm advancing timing by this much" if you will... J&S will see it and go "oh no you're f*cking not".....

if its timing, and it sounds like it is, you wont be able to diagnose it from the microtech end as long as the J&S is doing things.

Does the J&S have an independent timing lock? and independent rev cut? can you turn the thing off for the time being just to check?

 

[ctt 1982]

you've got mail, worm. i'll unhook the power from the j&s. i'm assuming that whe signal will pass through it unaltered. it also has no timing lock or rev cut. i wish it was a simple as that.

 

[LordWorm]

any luck yet mate?