Tire wear and recommendations

[Carl1643]

When I bought my Speed3 about three years ago, May of 2008, I read in several reviews of the Speed3 not to even think about driving in snow with the stock tires and, on the recommendation of my tire guy, I replaced them with Pirelli Pzero Nero tires. Today, they were checked and showed 4/32" left on three tires and 3/32" on one. It's taken me just three years and 24,500 miles to get to this point. This is the quickest I have ever replaced a set of tires. They usually last me about 5 years or 50,000 miles. (I live in the Washington, DC area which usually gets hit with four or five snow storms each winter.)

I just spent about an hour online checking out tire reviews on The Tire Rack, and the Pirelli's I have are well rated:
7.6 out of 10 respondents said they'd buy them again and the their treadware rating is 8.2.

The treadware ratings on five other tires I checked out are: 6.6, 7.8, 7.4, 8.4, 8.7. The tires that got better ratings were Yokohama Avid Envigor (8.4) and Continental Extreme Contact DWS (8.8).

There's no indication that my alignment is out so what the heck could have caused the Pirellli's to wear down to their preset level in only 24K miles????

Jeez, I'm 72! Never been on a track with the car and don't push it that hard in the corners on the road. What is going on here?

Thanks for any insights more knowledgeable that I am can offer.

 

[oaklandopen]

You drive a fwd with too much power to the wheels. Just because you don't think you're pushing it hard, doesn't mean those tires aren't getting worn any slower

All you can do is sacrifice ultra high performance by getting something a little less with a better wear rating, and hope it lasts longer

The only real thing you can do is get a summer and winter set of wheels and tires. That way, you get maximum wear and the best tread you can have per season

If I had the money id go for some smaller steelies and bigger series tire for winters, and summer tires on the good wheels

 

[spdjnke]

hello Carl, The reason why your Pirellis are wearing so "quickly" is because they are HP tires, and believe it or not they are one of the softest compounds out there that's one reason why they stick so well when its warm out. I would have to say 24,5 is pretty good on a speed 3, I know some members here are blowing through tires in 8-10k. Now thus they are all season you pretty much have doubled the normal life of a speed3 tire.

Now one thing I can say is stay away from AVID anything, last set I owned just about killed me in rain and light snow. Now I have heard good things about the continental DWS's but haven't tired them myself however I have heard that they have soft side walls and with the stiff suspension the speed has it really makes the car become a bit unstable during corning at least with my experience with the Hankook V12 with same soft side walls.....The tire I would recommend personally if you want to stay with all seasons... is the BFG G-force T/A, they too have a 400AA treadwear rating which is fantastic with just the right balance of grip and durability and with easy driving and regular rotations I don't see why you wouldn't be able to get 35K+ out of them .....heck I got 30K out of my stock tires...and no even with mods I still baby the Shyt out of my car.

just my .02 hope it helps.

 

[MSMS3]

OP: I'm running Pirelli P-Zero Nero A/S tires too. Their tread wear rating is an extremely high 400, which makes them just about the hardest and longest wearing tread compound you can find for a tire with a speed rating for 168 mph. In fact, I regret buying them to replace my summer tires as we don't get much cold weather here and, with hindsight, I should have picked a softer compound. They just do not have much straight line traction when the right foot gets heavy in the lower gears, compared to the summer tires. Lol.

I'm 61 years old, but do drive my car hard. I now have almost 20,000 miles on the Pirelli's and they are showing almost no wear. That's why I think something else is going on with yours. Are you rotating them and if so, how frequently? The wear patterns on FWD cars with heavy front ends and very light rear are distinctly different than on RWD cars. You do need to be rotating them at least every 7,500 miles. Also tire pressure can play a major role in wear. Make sure you do keep them aired up according to the driver's inside door sticker, which I think is maybe 35 psi front and 34 psi rear.

Is the wear pattern uniform, or are you seeing more wear in the middle of the tread (over inflation), around the outside (under inflation) or more on one edge than the other (inside tread or outside tread), or are you seeing any cupping or chunking of tread anywhere, suggesting posssible alignment issues?

Something ain't right. A tire with a 400 tread wear rating (stock Bridgestones were 140 I think), does not carry exactly identically across different tire manufacturers, but darn it, 400 is super hard and your tires should be holding up well. I got 27,000 out of the super soft Bridgestone RE-050's including lots of tracking and 60 timing practice launches.

 

[Carl1643]

Thanks so much to all of you for responding.

First to answer your questions:

My tire pressure is 34 front and 32 rear.

First time I rotated my tires was at about 7k miles. At that time, during an oil change at my dealer, I was told that there some cupping and feathering noted on the tires.

I took the car to my tire guy, he confirmed the cupping and feathering and suggested I rotate the tires more often and I did so, at 5K mile intervals.

The wear pattern appears uniform to my un-expert eye.

The tire guy is a local institution. He's been in the same tiny shop for over 20 years and the on-line reviews all praise his knowledge, expertise, etc. The only beef is he is sooooo busy it is a two+ hour wait to get tires put on or rotated.

I think my best course of action is to go to him, lay it all out, and see what he suggests. This will be the 7th set of 4 tires I have purchased from him in about 15 years, and I am hoping he will give me a break on the price of a new set of tires.

Looking at the tire rack for my car, in order of my preference, here's what appeals to me. Numbers following each tire are the treadware rating.

Continental Extreme Contact DWS, Ultra High Performance (UHP) All Season 8.7 $151
Goodyear Eagle F1, UHP, All Season 7.8 $129
Kuhmo Ecsta ASX, UHP, All Season 7.4 $126
Goodyear GT (W), UHP, All Season 6.6 $145

I don't want to get two sets of tires, so the BFG G-Force are out because they are listed as HP, Summer.

Again, thanks so very much for the feedback.

 

[oaklandopen]

Did you get an alignment with your last set?

 

[Carl1643]

Nope. Never been aligned. I got rid of the OEM tires within a week of buying the car; sold them on Craig's List and bought the Pirelli's. Figured the less wear the tires had on them, the more I could get for them and that's why I sold them right away.

 

[skatethesea]

Damn, Im at 25k and I only had my car a year. Hahaa. As far as tire wear goes, I have never seen more than 15k out of a set of tires. I drive sport compacts and roadsters. Thats it. If you want a fun car, and confidence in said fun cars, you have to be ready to pay the price of rubber, oil, and gas. I dont know if you have looken at the inside of your rear tires yet. But if not, your in for a surprise.

 

[Hapa88]

Carl, unfortunately the treadware ratings on the tires you listed were based off of user survey results and not actual scientific data. Therefore comparing the numbers is not a reliable indicator of actual performance. What you should use are the TireRack "Tests" as better evidence of performance. They continuously review tires and test tires against each other, giving you a better comparison of performance.

Also note that treadwear rating on tires (UTQG numbers) can only be compared within a single manufacturer's lineup. You cannot compare a UTQG number of a Dunlop to say one from Continental Tires. Each manufacturer uses the UTQG number system differently.

The fact that your tires are showing signs of cupping, feathering, and uneven wear between all 4 tires indicates that your alignment out and/or suspension pieces are broken, out of line or deteriorating (check ball joint, wheel bearing, shock absorber, springs, bushings, etc). See this for more info:
http://www.procarcare.com/includes/content/resourcecenter/encyclopedia/ch25/25readtirewear.html
Since you haven't had the alignment checked at all, I would highly recommend you do this before dropping more money into tires, as this would seem likely seem to be the root cause of your problem (and not the tire itself).

 

[Carl1643]

Probably a wise idea. I need new tires anyway, so I'll go ahead and get them then get the alignment checked. I suspect my car guy can give me a good idea of whether I have an alignment problem by looking at the wear on all four tires plus check the ball joints and wheel bearings.

Thanks for chiming in and for your suggestions.

 

[jri4]

Also you cannot compare treadware ratings between competing companies--only among one company at a time
i.e, Goodyear Tire A has a rating of 250 compared to Goodyear Tire B with a rating of 400
NOT Goodyear Tire A has a rating of 250 compared to a Pirelli Tire A with rating of 400

 

[MSMS3]

I agree that you can't compare UTQC numbers between different brands, but you can get some inkling when the numbers are widely different. A Pirelli UTQC 400 tire has very, very hard tread compound, as I have also learned from having those Nero A/S tires on for almost 20,000 miles. They are hard and don't wear nearly as fast as my stock summer Bridgestones did. That's why I think something else is going on.

Carl, get that alignment issue addressed before spending big bucks on more tires and have the same thing happen again. If you must go with A/S, and I was making my choice again, I'd go with those Conti DWS's. I know they are pricey, but they are darned good tires.

 

[FlyPanAm]

I love my DWS's so far, though I've only had them for about 6k miles (3 months). I'm coming up on my second oil change and first rotation so I'll be able to see wear but performance-wise I couldn't be happier. As I'm sure you've read, the cool thing about the DWSs is that the "DWS" imprinted in the tread wears away with the miles to tell you what conditions are still safe, the "S" for snow wears off first, etc. After 6k the front wheels are still proudly showing all three letters with plenty of depth left.

Compared to the stocks you do lose a bit when you're pushing it in the twistys, especially with bumps in dry conditions. But I'd take them in ANY other scenario. For everyday driving they really improve the ride over stocks and make you feel superhuman when conditions go south. I had them for the 2nd half of this winter in New England and they ROCK in the white stuff. With traction on and normal driving they didn't slip once for me in the snow, you really have to try to get them to break loose (I did have to test what the limits were). All this and I can't hear any road noise above my MS exhaust.

You heard right to not consider the stocks in snow, I could barely get out of my driveway with anything more than and inch or so (seriously, I had to rock, turn traction off, etc).

Unfortunately I can't really attest to wear yet, but I'm happy in every other category. My ideal set up would be these for everyday and another set of wheels/tires for the track.

 

[Carl1643]

Since, during the first three years, while the car was still under warranty, I have been taking it to the dealer where I purchased it for oil changes and routine maintenance, I feel reasonably confident that they would have called any problem with the ball joints, wheel bearing, shock absorber, springs, bushings, etc., to my attention, but I will call them tomorrow to confirm that with my service rep at the dealership.

Alignment is something else again; I believe that if they had seen really unusual tire wear, they would have strongly suggested an alignment (like all dealerships, this place is not shy about suggesting "routine maintenance" that is not the Mazda manual that came with the car. E.g,, a brake flush at 24K miles when the manual only calls for that for cars sold in Mexico and not in the U.S. and Canada.)

I'll also ask my tire guy if he has a reputable shop to which he refers his customers for alignments.

 

[oaklandopen]

But whenever you put new tires on a car, an alignment is a given, if not to at least check to see if the car is still in spec

All you need from them, at that point, is a printout of your alignment. That sheet comes with all sorts of info, to include "in spec" and "actual" numbers, what your cushion is (ie no more than 1.3), and whether you can actually adjust a certain part (like caster you cannot change)

The only thing you have to worry about then is if the mech ***** with the numbers before he prints it out. I knew a guy that did that because some cars would be impossible to tweak enough to be "in the green".

 

[CHIEFSMS3]

I have had the Pirelli PZero Nero AS and the performance and wear were very similar to the OE Bridgestones with rotations every 5,000 miles. I use my Pirellis for a winter tire. I am now using the Dunlop Direzza Star Spec for my summer tire. I put the Continental DWS on and drove them for approx. 2000 miles before I returned them to Tirerack for another set of the Pirellis. Compared to the Bridgestone and the Pirelli the handling was terrible. The sidewalls are so soft that the handling that I was used to with the other 3 tires was something that I was not willing to live with for 2-3 winters. With the soft sidewalls there was a delay in response when turning and the car definitely felt less capable handling wise in all aspects.
I would recommend staying with the Pirelli or find another tire than the Dunlop.

 

[Carl1643]

A final question?

Would I be better advised to replace the worn tires first then get an alignment or get an alignment and then get the tires replaced or does it make any difference?

Many thanks.

P.s. Will report back here on the outcome of the alignment, what tires I get, and how the meeting with my tire guy goes... just to close the loop.

 

[Carl1643]

Thanks for the feedback/input, Chief.

As always, I go to my tire guy with what I have learned, then usually go with his recommendation

This time, I will go to him much better prepared, thanks to all the experienced input I am getting here.

 

[Hapa88]

A final question?

Would I be better advised to replace the worn tires first then get an alignment or get an alignment and then get the tires replaced or does it make any difference?

Many thanks.

P.s. Will report back here on the outcome of the alignment, what tires I get, and how the meeting with my tire guy goes... just to close the loop.

It sort of depends.

Many of the automated alignment shops of today (like the Hunter ones) use the the wheels as the alignment reference (not the tires). If the alignment shop you go to uses this system then theoretically it doesn't matter if you do it before or after getting the new tires. In a perfect world this could be the best alignment. However, tires aren't always made perfectly and there could be some inherent pull that the alignment rack doesn't account for. That's why the mechanic usually takes it out for a test drive immediately afterward and will manually fine adjust it when he gets back.

Some older shops do the alignment to the centerline of the tire. If this is the case, then buy the new tires and install them, then get the alignment done immediately afterward.

Lastly, some shops (at least around here), offer "Lifetime Alignment" so you pay a little more up front, but have the option of getting free alignments done over the lifetime of the car. Every policy is different, and some only allow 1 alignment per year, but that could be an option for you.

 

[Hapa88]

One more thing to note, if you go to the dealership to only get oil changes your car may not be getting a thorough inspection by a ASE/SAE Certified mechanic. At my dealership (I just found this out), oil changes are done by techs (which are usually high school grads that are much cheaper to pay and carry way less experience). They're trained to do oil changes and fill out that Mazda inspection checklist, not to do any other service.