For whatever reason, I recently traded my heavily moded MSP for a truck :/ I've been looking at a few RX8's but am not extremely impressed with the performance, specifically the torque. Can anyone give me some quick words of advice? Is it fairly easy to get some low end torque? My goal would be 180-200 ft lbs.
Thinking about getting a RX8
- Thread starter Mr.broke
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Yeah... the thing about rotories is they are a little notorious for a lack of low end torque. I'd say if you're not prepared a lack of torque you probably don't want an rx-8. The other thing is a supercharger, usually stage 2, will do the trick for your low end torque needs. The problem with superchargers on rotories is that they wear down the apex seals a little faster than the turbos do, resulting in engine replacement. All in all, if you want a quick light to light car, I would go with an awd turbo platform. For longer straightaways, go for a big displacement engine. And lastly, if you are looking for a good track car, then this is the one you want. Back to the point tho, if you have your heart set on an rx-8 the torque can be remedied, but that only real things I can think of would be wider summer tires (minimal gain) and forced induction.
haha. Thanks, I've been spending all day looking into peformance parts trying to decide if the car is the right one for me. I think I'm going to go with the rx8. It handles so freaking good. I have a couple extra turbo's and a big intercooler i could use to up the torque. I've always heard rotaries are really temperamental though, don't want to mess it up.
solidtrance
Member
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- HIS: 2005 RX-8 WWP GT 6MT* HERS: 2006 Speed6 BCM 6MT**
You are on the right track. At least you are researching BEFORE you buy. IMO your torque goals will require a serious investment in time and money. The only way to get there is going to be FI (as already mentioned). I would disagree with the comment about supercharges wearing the side seals out faster than turbos. I can only think of one supercharged engine that blew in the last few years, and that guy is pushing the limits of the Pettit S/C and when he blew it he was flat ouot in 5th or 6th gear on the back stretch of his local track. Not a casual user for sure. Turbo's on the other hand have been the cause of more blown engines than I can count or hope to remember. So why is the turbo system so much more common you may ask? I think there are three reasons; 1. There are a variety of commercially available turbo systems, and many shops that will home brew you a kit. On the other hand there is only one company that make a supercharger kit for our car (Pettit). 2. A turbo kit can be much cheaper (These cheap kits are the cause of most of the FI engine failures). 3. A good turbo kit, with the proper supporting mods and a good tune have the potential to put out more peak power than the only supercharger kit that is available. Either way you go will take a lot of time and money (8-10K on the low end) to get it done right. You could knock some of that cost off if you are able to do the work yourself.
If the lack of torque is bothering you before you even buy the car I would recommend that you look elsewhere. If it bothers you now, you will hate the car in a few months. Ask yourself this, "can I take it if the soccer mom in the V6 Camary dusts me at the next light, or merging onto the highway?" That sort of stuff doesn't bother me, but it causes a lot of new RX8 owners to have problems understanding their car.
The performance that you are not impressed with, "low end torque" will never be a strength for this car. It is trash from stoplight to stoplight, now get yourself out to a country road and now your talking the right language.
You might consider looking at an MS3. Much more low end torque, handling that is just as good 9/10ths of the time. Much bigger aftermarket, many modding options. Very versatile car, in fact if I was in the market for a new car I would have a hard time picking an 8 up over an MS3.
If the lack of torque is bothering you before you even buy the car I would recommend that you look elsewhere. If it bothers you now, you will hate the car in a few months. Ask yourself this, "can I take it if the soccer mom in the V6 Camary dusts me at the next light, or merging onto the highway?" That sort of stuff doesn't bother me, but it causes a lot of new RX8 owners to have problems understanding their car.
The performance that you are not impressed with, "low end torque" will never be a strength for this car. It is trash from stoplight to stoplight, now get yourself out to a country road and now your talking the right language.
You might consider looking at an MS3. Much more low end torque, handling that is just as good 9/10ths of the time. Much bigger aftermarket, many modding options. Very versatile car, in fact if I was in the market for a new car I would have a hard time picking an 8 up over an MS3.
I would definately say you are right in the idea that more turbo blow engines are seen, but I thought that was because supercharging a rotory was more rare, not because they are worse on the engine. I definately agree that if you aren't pushing the chargers limits you wont have a problem, im just not sold on the idea that the turbos are worse than the superchargers on the seals. Dont get me wrong, if you oil the sucker every 2k miles or less you'll be in better shape, but I was under the impression that most rx-8 turbo owners tune for low end boost. Would that be a correct assumption? Personally I would tune for high end boost, since the rotory already makes high end torque that would created the most dramatic transition (the biggest "boost" effect) and I think that would conserve the seals more, as only vaccuum would be used in daily driving. But for daily driving, a supercharger would still be using boost. Would this not wear down the seals more?
Anyway solidtrance is right, your torque problems can be solved, but dont expect a race car. If you find a nice curvy road though you can have the time of your life in an Rx-8. My take on the whole idea is that all roads aren't straight all the time, and it takes more skill gauging turns, corners, etc than just punching the gas and shifting. Nowadays, I think youy can tune most if not all cars for flat foot shifting, so dragging can really come down to who puts more money into their car. Also, I find just running straightways to get repetative and boring sometimes, but taking that same old curve just a little faster every few days keeps you on the edge of your seat. And sometimes literally =) So I guess what we are trying to say is: It depends on your driving style. As was just said though, research is the best option, and that is key to this car. Frankly im still researching these cars preparing for one haha.
Oh yeah, feel free to correct me if Im wrong, but since you are here, ill just give you some of the tips I think are appropriate:
-If you are not using an conventional rx-8 turbo, dont push the psi too high. 10-12 is probably enough. Maybe 14 if you are pretty aggressive with it =)
-Be prepared to change the oil ALOT. Key to long engine life mostly comes down to oil changes. I would suggest every 2k-3k.
-Redline the car (while moving) at least once a day. Carbon deposits can kill your engine life as well.
-Wait 1 minute after and before turning on/off your car. Its good to give the oil a chance to get warmed up and moving so your seals stay lubricated.
-Just watch for cars with 50k+ millage! If the engine hasnt been replaced it will most likely need to be! Exceptions being those who have taken excellent care of the car's internals, which is hard to come by. You can use this to try and lower the price too (my little sneaky plan for when I go to buy an 8).
-Just make sure other things are maintained. Trany fluid, belts, spark plugs, etc.
And I think thats it. Happy deciding/hunting!
Oh yeah, feel free to correct me if Im wrong, but since you are here, ill just give you some of the tips I think are appropriate:
-If you are not using an conventional rx-8 turbo, dont push the psi too high. 10-12 is probably enough. Maybe 14 if you are pretty aggressive with it =)
-Be prepared to change the oil ALOT. Key to long engine life mostly comes down to oil changes. I would suggest every 2k-3k.
-Redline the car (while moving) at least once a day. Carbon deposits can kill your engine life as well.
-Wait 1 minute after and before turning on/off your car. Its good to give the oil a chance to get warmed up and moving so your seals stay lubricated.
-Just watch for cars with 50k+ millage! If the engine hasnt been replaced it will most likely need to be! Exceptions being those who have taken excellent care of the car's internals, which is hard to come by. You can use this to try and lower the price too (my little sneaky plan for when I go to buy an 8).
-Just make sure other things are maintained. Trany fluid, belts, spark plugs, etc.
And I think thats it. Happy deciding/hunting!
Thanks guys! I keep going back and forth. The thing I loved about the MSP is that is handled so good, but would still smoke a V8 off the line. I have been wondering how much boost a could hold up to also, so that helps. I've looked into a couple MS6's, they're just really hard to find! I did find a MSP sitting in someone's yard without a front bumper though 
That's also an option. You guys have been really helpful, exactly the type of things I needed to know while searching. When I test drove the 8 I don't think I got it over 6k rpm, maybe I should drive it again...
That's also an option. You guys have been really helpful, exactly the type of things I needed to know while searching. When I test drove the 8 I don't think I got it over 6k rpm, maybe I should drive it again...solidtrance
Member
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- HIS: 2005 RX-8 WWP GT 6MT* HERS: 2006 Speed6 BCM 6MT**
If you didn't get it over 6k then you didn't really experience the car. It takes a little getting use to. Just let the car warm up, while taking it easy, then run the engine until you hear the car beep. Don't look at the tach, just plant your foot and wait for the beep. It will be a whole lot more fun.
Awsome car! I got one for my wife and we both love it. Much faster than my 8 in everyday driving. i have to push pretty hard to get away from here even in pretty sharp corners. I love driving her car, but always look forward to getting back in my 8. From what you have said, I think this would be a better option for you. For the cost of an intake, Turbo Inlet Pipe, cat delete mid pipe and an Accessport you can easily net 80whp peak, a similar increase in torque and launch control. Makes the car a lot more fun, and will really suprise some folks.
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If you want those torque numbers, as everyone said you have to go FI. FI is not cheap, you need a quality turbo kit (NOT THE s*** GREDDY KIT) and you need to pay for a quality tune....With that being said....
Watch what you read about the rotary, there is lots of BS out there. Seals fail because of improper tuning and maintenance. Most people that blow their RX8s are the people that own A) Greddy Turbo Kits that are not upgraded and B) people that do not get the proper tuning done on their car. The Renesis Engine from factory is actually really resilient and can handle 400hp.
all the power is from about 5.5k up so if you revved to 6k u have no properly driven a RX8.
there are plenty of ways to keep your engine healthy and going for awhile...
higher oil weight
oil changes no later than 3k miles
premixing
midpipe (gets rid of the chance of a clogged cat that will kill your engine)
When it really comes down to it...its a great DRIVERS car....and it needs a little bit more attention to detail when maintaining it...you give it that she will treat you well
Watch what you read about the rotary, there is lots of BS out there. Seals fail because of improper tuning and maintenance. Most people that blow their RX8s are the people that own A) Greddy Turbo Kits that are not upgraded and B) people that do not get the proper tuning done on their car. The Renesis Engine from factory is actually really resilient and can handle 400hp.
all the power is from about 5.5k up so if you revved to 6k u have no properly driven a RX8.
there are plenty of ways to keep your engine healthy and going for awhile...
higher oil weight
oil changes no later than 3k miles
premixing
midpipe (gets rid of the chance of a clogged cat that will kill your engine)
When it really comes down to it...its a great DRIVERS car....and it needs a little bit more attention to detail when maintaining it...you give it that she will treat you well
So, I looked at quite a few cars and ran into another 8 today. I took everyone's advise and redlined it quite a few times, drove on some winding roads. AWESOME CAR!!!! So, I'm officially a Mazda owner again. Looking forward to modding it a little, but I've got some research to do. First, the exhaust, then FI. I miss my turbo. Thanks a ton for you help guys. I would have never gotten back into an 8 without the advise.
solidtrance
Member
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- HIS: 2005 RX-8 WWP GT 6MT* HERS: 2006 Speed6 BCM 6MT**
Congrats. If you take care of the car you will not retgret it. I love my 8. Enough that I am moving to Japan and instead of selling it and getting a new car when I return I am going to fpay to store the car for the whole time I am gone. I am doing the same for my wife's MS6. When you find a car you like, it is hard to think of getting rid of it.
There is some decent "basic" information in one of the stickied threads in this section that may get you started on your modding research. Let us know if you have questions, and let us know what you are planning so we can let you learn from our mistakes. Enjoy your "new" car, and be sure to give it the beans regularly. It is good for you and the car.
Depending on the year and milage there are a few things that I would recomend doing right away for the cars health, safety of the engine. You are obviously no newb so I'm sure you are already planning most of the maintenance, however there are few things that need more attention on the 8 than other cars.
I would seriously think about doing the following:
SeaFoam
Oil Change
Trans/Diff
Coils/Plugs/Wires
??? What else am I missing guys???
The Seafoam and Coils are the ones that are not common and should be done if the car has more than 36K miles. There is another sticky for the maint info.
Congrats again and welcome to the club. Get use to people asking you lots of questions about your car.
There is some decent "basic" information in one of the stickied threads in this section that may get you started on your modding research. Let us know if you have questions, and let us know what you are planning so we can let you learn from our mistakes. Enjoy your "new" car, and be sure to give it the beans regularly. It is good for you and the car.
Depending on the year and milage there are a few things that I would recomend doing right away for the cars health, safety of the engine. You are obviously no newb so I'm sure you are already planning most of the maintenance, however there are few things that need more attention on the 8 than other cars.
I would seriously think about doing the following:
SeaFoam
Oil Change
Trans/Diff
Coils/Plugs/Wires
??? What else am I missing guys???
The Seafoam and Coils are the ones that are not common and should be done if the car has more than 36K miles. There is another sticky for the maint info.
Congrats again and welcome to the club. Get use to people asking you lots of questions about your car.
phunky.buddha
Booga Booga?
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- DFW TX
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- No mo MZ5 want MX5
solidtrance
Member
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- HIS: 2005 RX-8 WWP GT 6MT* HERS: 2006 Speed6 BCM 6MT**
Yea, I wouldn't have thought of coils. I did think of seaform, but wasn't sure if it was safe. First mod I'm planning is cat-delete. From what i've read, it's a necessity. True? Do you guys know of any replacement pipe that will keep the check engine light off? Any exhaust suggestions in general? I prefer to go to a local guy, but if there is a system that will keep the check engine light off, I'll go that way. Other than that I want to make it a comfortable daily driver, iPod hookup, Subwoofer, tinted windows. Then I'll likely work on the suspension and get some gold wheels before too many other mods.
also, its a 2007, 66k miles 6 speed. It's that blue-ish green color fully loaded other than gps.
also, its a 2007, 66k miles 6 speed. It's that blue-ish green color fully loaded other than gps.
solidtrance
Member
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- HIS: 2005 RX-8 WWP GT 6MT* HERS: 2006 Speed6 BCM 6MT**
You will be fine, there are even injection ports on the lower intake mani that are specifically for decarbing the engine. All you have to do is disconnect the eccentric shaft position sensor (located on the front of the engine, you just have to remove the Intake box). Connect the seafoam to the intake ports and crank the engine (15-20 sec for each side). Let it sit for a little bit (hook the eccentric shaft pos sensor back up whit you are waiting. Then start her up and watch the show.
None of the cat delete pipes out there will defeat the cel. The only way is with another highflow cat (get the davesport one, here) or using an accessport. I would recommend getting the accessport. It will help with other things, and if you buy it through mazdamaniac he will help you nail down a tune that will help with everything. If you decide to get rid of the cat and not replace you will need at least one resonator, I have a dual res mid pipe and its still LOUD.
Be carefull with the suspension, its easy to make it worse. Do plenty of research before you do anything. I did progress tech springs with koni sport (yellow) struts, and the end result was much lower than expected. It is fine, I just have to be careful whenever I go over even the smallest bump or driveway.
Yes that is fine so long as you do an oil change when you are done. I have not done this in the past because with the 8 you are only able to change about 50-60% of the oil at one time (because of the twin oil coolers).
If you can make it to a place called Fuel down by the river Saturday mornings for cars and coffee there are normally a couple of local RX-8 owners there. I am there when I'm home but normally I'm in the Miata. Everyone is great and pretty knowledgeable about the cars. You just missed out on a cruise and cookout they had two weeks ago.
