Taking her in for pinging, last chance for anyone with a similar problem?

[table5511]

I'm dropping her on Monday evening to diag warmup pinging/pre-ignition.
I have not heard anyone on here with this problem.

Pings (sounds like marbles bouncing around in the top end) consistently, only under moderate accelleration, and only until the coolant temp reaches normal operating temp. Once it reaches normal operating temp, its like a light switch, it gets turned off. It does not start to go away as it warms up, no, it literally immediately ceases as soon as the needle gets to the middle. Doesn't matter what the temp is outside.

Have tried 89 octane for awhile at shell, that did nothing.
Have tried both oem and K&N filters now, and no difference.

Stealership basically stating that unless it is something inside the engine that the 60k warranty likely would not cover it. (B.S.).

 

[HOLOHOLO]

Gettin close to the 60K mark... I would take it in every time it farts or sneezes. Get it documented. Good luck!

 

[10Molavi]

Maybe a weak temp sensor?

 

[table5511]

I found a tsb that I've never seen before for some reson. It is to the T the problem I am having.

01-035/10 Subject: ENGINE SPARK KNOCKING / PINGING TYPE NOISE WHEN COLD

"The noise can be heard only when the engine is cold. It disappears after the engine reaches normal operating temperature."

Basically it is a computer re-program with the latest software version and this fixes it.

Labor hours: 0.3 Hrs.

"Additional diagnostic time cannot be claimed for this repair"

"This repair will be covered under Mazda's New Vehicle Limited and Federal Emmisions warranty..."

So this should be covered under the 8 year Fed emissions warranty then.

And I take this to mean the dealer cannot try an charge a 1 hour diagnostic fee lol.

They are not going to like me when I bring it in this afternoon.

 

[table5511]

Done.
Covered, zero dollars for me. They reflashed the ecu.
Service writer said no, senior technician said likely no, and another technician said maybe yes.
Senior technician said because the ecu was not broken, the tsb did not fall under the federal emmisions warranty.
I argued it is damaged and needs to be repaired, and the fed. warranty even says that if a part is not working right, it should be repaired under said warranty.
I pointed right to the page on the technical service bulletin that says it falls under the federal emmisions warranty.
Then the service writer told me my vin did not fall into the affected vins for that tsb.
I also showed him the entire federal emmisions warranty, I printed out every page and highlighted applicable sections.
I said I was going to need that in writing that their dealership would not be covering this under the federal emissions warranty.
At that point, the service writer contacted the district manager, who then agreed to cover it.

I will say that they were all very professional and did not treat me poorly or roll their eyes.. they were very curteous, and I tried to be as well.
I just simply stated that no hard feelings, but I feel like it is covered and would gather anything required if it was not.

So thankfully my ecu is reflashed, and hopefully, no more cold pinging.

BTW one of the technicians said he has done several CX-9 reflashes for this problem and it fixed every single one.

 

[Reggie Watts]

Great job helbigtw! Persistence pays off. I hope that it corrects the problem. (I probably would have said "OK, how much will this cost to fix?"

 

[ceric]

It seems like this is a problem for later model.
The TSB was issued in Jan, 2010.

Great job, helbigtw. Now people with this issue know what to do.

 

[HOLOHOLO]

Sounds like a cheap and simple fix. .3 hrs! Why all the drama??

 

[table5511]

.3 warranty hours, no diagnosis time allowed. Regular price 89.95 diagnosis plus whatever labor hours they decide to assign. They wanted a couple hundred bucks from me. Dealers are only allowed real actual labor under warranty work, but for out of pocket they are not required to follow manufacturers labor times. This is one reason to avoid stealerships for out of pocket work that does not require MMDS.

 

[HOLOHOLO]

That car's just on the verge of everything being out of warranty, right? So I would be looking at you as a great big fat annuity plan, or a soon-to-upgrade customer and spiffing you this no brainer repair.

At least I'd get paid somethin from Mazda on the job, and I'd keep you com'n back.

I wonder if they had wrestled with corporate before over this repair...?

 

[dsc888]

I absolutely agree with you on this. I service my cars at the dealer when under warranty just so that I am covered should something go wrong later. But you would have to give me a reason to come back on basic repairs which any local mechanic can take care of for much less money.

That car's just on the verge of everything being out of warranty, right? So I would be looking at you as a great big fat annuity plan, or a soon-to-upgrade customer and spiffing you this no brainer repair.

 

[table5511]

Well I'm gonna have to take it back in and leave it.
Still pinging under load when engine is cold.

I will be sure to advise them NO TEARDOWN UNLESS I APPROVE. I can already see them trying something like "it had 2 quarts of oil..."
I will be taking a video at the dealer of my oil level, the dash showing no lights, etc etc that way they can't try something dumb.

 

[dsc888]

Well I'm gonna have to take it back in and leave it.
Still pinging under load when engine is cold.

I will be sure to advise them NO TEARDOWN UNLESS I APPROVE. I can already see them trying something like "it had 2 quarts of oil..."
I will be taking a video at the dealer of my oil level, the dash showing no lights, etc etc that way they can't try something dumb.

helbigtw,

Any updates to your situation? I'm curious as to whether the dealer was able to sort out your problem with the cold pinging. I personally don't have the problem but am a bit curious.

 

[table5511]

I'm waiting until after Easter weekend... my wife is gonna have to rent a car. I tried a can of Seafoam in the gas tank, and that didn't do anything. I didn't think it would, because if the problem was simply carbon buildup in the combustion chamber, the pinging would also occur at warm engine temp as well. The only thing I can think of is either a bad maf sensor, bad coil, bad fuel injector or internal engine problem. Its just weird though that it goes away suddenly when normal temp is reached.... almost like a timing issue. But as they already re-flashed the computer, I dunno. I'm stumped.

 

[J&J's Dad]

It does sound like an open loop timing advance issue. As soon as the engine reaches normal operating temp and goes closed loop, different timing advance settings eliminate the preignition. That's about the only thing that could cause such a difference between cold and normal orperating temperature behavior. The TSB pretty much clinches it. Do you have an OBD2 scanner that lets you see the timing curve? Maybe they didn't flash the PCM properly, or at all, knowing dealerships?

 

[dsc888]

I'm waiting until after Easter weekend... my wife is gonna have to rent a car. I tried a can of Seafoam in the gas tank, and that didn't do anything. I didn't think it would, because if the problem was simply carbon buildup in the combustion chamber, the pinging would also occur at warm engine temp as well. The only thing I can think of is either a bad maf sensor, bad coil, bad fuel injector or internal engine problem. Its just weird though that it goes away suddenly when normal temp is reached.... almost like a timing issue. But as they already re-flashed the computer, I dunno. I'm stumped.

Good luck! Please let us know. Does Seafoam really work for carbon buildup that cause pinging when warm? I seen folks make big white smoke from adding it to the crankcase. Crazy stuff.

 

[J&J's Dad]

I've never tried Seafoam, but I know most of the off the shelf products work marginally. I'd had exllecent results from B&G products, particularly fuel injection system cleaning products. They don't sell direct to consumers, only shops, so they can be tricky to find. I usually try to locate the triple product kits for sale on line. They include the 44K, Fuel Injection system and Air Intake system cleaning products together in one kit. http://www.bgprod.com/home.html

 

[table5511]

So the cold pinging finally stopped while we were out of town. Went on a little road trip from central Kentucky to Pittsburgh, PA, and then one day from there up to Erie, PA which is almost in Canada.

After one can of Seafoam, and about 7 or 8 tanks of 89 octane, the cold pinging subsided.

Moral of the story - CX-9 really does not take 87 octane, it needs 89.

Now that this little issue is taken care of, I can finally get my extra lower airbox out of storage and swiss cheese it and put my K&N drop-in filter back in.

I've really noticed a little bit of a horsepower drop since putting a new stock air filter in.

I didn't notice much of a gain when I had it, but I have deffinately noticed a good bit of loss without it lol.

 

[dsc888]

J&J,

Thanks for the info. I might look into those products some time down the line when the time comes to cleaning my fuel injection system. Glad to hear that you like them.

Helbigtw,

Glad to hear that you are done with the issue. i too put in 89 after I got consistent knocking when warm on a nearly new engine. The thing that caught my attention was when I got knocking with my wife and kids on board. It barely knocked when I was driving alone. This would happen when I was driving driving away from stop signs or a red light. Now I have 2 toddlers and my wife is petite and weights just 100lbs. After trying out 93 octane and having the knocking stop, I tried 89 and it's practically resolved. So I've been using 89 since then. Please keep us posted should anything change

BTW, did you add 1/3 of the Seafoam in the crankcase, 1/3 in the gas tank, and 1/3 via the vacuum lines? Or did you dump it all in the gas tank? Thanks.

 

[table5511]

Only one can in a just less than full tank of gas. Since the fuel injectors obviously squirt directly into the combustion chamber, it didn't make sense for me to pour it into a vaacum line. An old beater maybe. But I was also picturing my neighbors all gawking at the smoke it would create. Putting it in the oil also didn't make sense. I use full synthetic and know there is no sludge buildup in the motor. Mobile 1 synthetic keeps the inside of the motor all clean and shiny pretty much forever. I also entertained the idea of spritzing water into the air intake, but seeing as how the throttle body has steel parts (not aluminum) I felt that might invite corrosion into the TB.