Starter problem? Help!

C

curls

Member
My wife's 02 P5 has had a weak battery for some time now, and finally today it wouldn't crank the engine over enough to start it, so I replaced the battery with a new one (Motomaster).

However, all we get is the "click", NO cranking at all, not even a noise other than the click (which comes from a pushrod type thing next to the intake manifold on the passenger side).

Would this mean the starter is likely toast now? Is it just a weird coincidence that the starter died on the same day as the battery, or did the battery cause some problem with the starter? What can I do to test this?

I have the service manual and the starter doesn't look too hard to remove although I have to take the damn battery out again. Can I test the starter on my own when out of the car by connecting 12V from the battery to the proper terminals on the starter?

Any insight GREATLY appreciated as my wife is currently without a car, and she can't (isn't allowed!) to drive my manual transmission Acura. LOL. I value my clutch.

Thanks,
Eric
 
OK, I've been working on diagnosing the problem all day thus far and have followed the troubleshooting procedures in the service manual to a T.

1 - Battery condition and Battery connection (OK)
2 - AT in Park or Neutral (OK)
3 - Clicking from Starter? No - go to step 4 (below)
4 - AT range switch inspection (passed OK)
5 - Connect code reader and read DTC's if any (I don't have a code reader, so I can't perform this step).

The "No code" for step 5 would tell me to check START circuit in ignition cylinder, but the car won't start with the remote start either meaning it isn't the ignition cylinder/key tumbler. Also I get a CLICK from a small plunger type thing on the intake manifold (far from the starter). I believe this is the VICS plunger that is vacuum operated on startup/fuel? So the fact that there is SOMETHING happening when I turn the key means the START circuit is OK.

I believe the problem is with the starter but am looking for more advice here. The starter is in an absolutely horrible spot. I can only access one of the 3 bolts. The other 2 cannot even be FOUND, let alone removed. I can't get a multimeter in there to test the leads going into the starter, either. Damn engineers.

What can I do here guys -- ANY advice is appreciated.

Thanks,
Eric
 
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Let me clarify - do you get a repeated clicking sound when you turn the key? If so, your starter is probably good. Double check your battery posts for corrosion (go buy one of those $2 terminal cleaner tools and really go to town). You can still have an invisible layer of corrosion that is impeding your current flow.

I've never worked on our cars' starters, but is there a way for you to bypass the starter solenoid? You should just be able to make a connection directly from the battery to the starter, and if it fires up, your solenoid is bad.
 
I hear NO clicking from the starter at all when it is installed normally and I use the ignition key. None, nada. The click was from something else (the VICS plunger it appears in the manual).

I just bench tested the starter (got it out) and connected POS 12V to the main starter bolt (copper, large, located on the solenoid), NEG from battery to the starter casing, and then jumped the large copper bolt to the other relatively large bolt (non-copper) that was also on the solenoid. This made the starter gears spin but NOT push outwards (like they should in order to engage a flywheel).

There is another terminal on the solenoid (a spade connector that connects to a pretty thin wire), but this wasn't involved in my test. Any idea what this is? I'm thinking its the ignition signal wire but I couldn't get that jumped to anything in order to fire up the starter -- nothing worked.

Thanks,
Eric

PS: I replaced the battery terminals and cleaned the new battery's posts very well with one of those brushes made for that job. I checked the one ground at the top of the shock tower and its good (cleaned and dielectric greased it anyhow). I have NOT verified that the starter 12V+ wire is corroded or damaged as its in a b**** of a spot. But again the bench test of the starter isn't 100% conclusive either way (good or bad) so I'm at a loss as to what to do next.
 
Do you have the factory alarm?

I had the same thing happen. Battery died, put new one in and car wouldn't start. There is a small push button under the dash that you gotta get with your left arm thats way up under the dash that you gotta press and hold while turning the key. I've had to start my car like that every day for the past month and it worked for me. Still need to figure out how to get around that.
 
No factory alarm. Its definitely a starter or starter circuit problem.

I'm going to source out a rebuilt starter tomorrow after double-checking with a local parts store regarding my bench test (ie: have them re-check it). :(
 
curls said:
No factory alarm. Its definitely a starter or starter circuit problem.

I'm going to source out a rebuilt starter tomorrow after double-checking with a local parts store regarding my bench test (ie: have them re-check it). :(
Click to expand...

Agreed. It sounds like your starter is in fact shot. That smaller wire could have just been a ground for the starter.
 
slavrenz said:
Agreed. It sounds like your starter is in fact shot. That smaller wire could have just been a ground for the starter.
Click to expand...

No, the ground is the starter casing/shell itself.

I'm 95% sure when I tested the large bolt to the spade connector (ignition wire connection), there was NO action. IE: The solenoid is toasted.

I will re-confirm again today at lunch in my office parking lot (LOL) and buy a remanufactured starter this afternoon if it indeed is done like I think it is.

Thanks,
Eric
 
Ok so after getting a new starter and swearing a lot on the install, the car still did not start.

It turned out that the female spade connector that comes from the ignition switch and hooks up to the starter solenoid wasn't making contact -- it was corroded like crazy. It was still showing fine as per the voltmeter but when its installed on the starter it wasn't making a connection, hence the solenoid didn't get the signal to start.

F'n $2 part failure just cost me over $200. ARGH.
 
curls said:
Ok so after getting a new starter and swearing a lot on the install, the car still did not start.

It turned out that the female spade connector that comes from the ignition switch and hooks up to the starter solenoid wasn't making contact -- it was corroded like crazy. It was still showing fine as per the voltmeter but when its installed on the starter it wasn't making a connection, hence the solenoid didn't get the signal to start.

F'n $2 part failure just cost me over $200. ARGH.
Click to expand...

Gotta check, double check, and then check again for corrosion - a lot of the time, it's an easy thing to miss.

Glad your issue's finally fixed.
 
Thanks for the post - it may help someone else.

Thats what makes this place work! ;)

Sharing.

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(and (sometimes) the Ugly)
 
I might replace the quick connect with a proper automotive grade (sealed, beefier) one. But for now the typical multi-pack one seems to work. I used pliers and made it fit a bit tighter, and loaded it with dielectric grease to help prevent corrosion (but I think I didn't apply enough to the non-business end of the connector).

Luckily there's enough room to do that without having to remove the starter. I'll get around to it at the next oil change since it's right there next to the filter anyhow.
 
Well well well... the "repair" didn't last 24 hours before the same symptoms came back up AGAIN. >:(

Wife limped the car home with the following symptoms, all of which happened a few days ago leading to this fiasco:
1 - car chugging, seems to want to stall.
2 - ABS and BRAKE warning lights on, followed by SRS light, radio turning off, and headlights and wipers dimming/slowing considerably
3 - Once at home, (new!) battery voltage read 11.5. This was with the car off.
4 - Tried starting it and it gave two wimpy "Rrrr"s and then that was it, didn't catch, didn't turn over.
5 - Any further attempts resulted in ZERO noise from the starter, again.
6 - Jumped the starter with the screwdriver and it works just fine. Starter itself is NOT the issue.
7 - Tested voltage at the 12V switched lead that feeds the starter solenoid and it read no higher than 11.39V. Battery voltage at this time was over 12.35 volts. DOES THIS VOLTAGE DROP INDICATE A PROBLEM IN THE SWITCHED IGNITION FEED TO THE STARTER SOLENOID, AND WOULD A STARTER SOLENOID NOT REACT TO ANY LESS THAN 12 VOLTS???

So can anyone help me out here? Would I be well off to just try and run a new wire from the ignition (ECU?) to the Starter? Its contained within a wire loom and takes some nasty twists and turns in getting wherever its going. Anyone know where this switched wire is fed from?

Thanks a lot everyone.
Eric
 
The wire connecting the solenoid is probably corroded inside the insulation, maybe you should replace the whole thing.
 
You mean the wire that signals the starter, correct? Because I just replaced the starter with a brand new one that worked just fine.

An idea where that ignition switched wire leads back to? Relay in under-hood fuse box? Or the ECU?
 
check the negative terminal on your battery, as well as the cable itself. If the starter solenoid connection was corroded I'd bet there's corrosion there too. Bad grounds is my thought.
 
Isn't it fairly safe to rule out grounds if the starter can be engaged just fine if I use a screwdriver to give the 12V Switched lead the power? The starter spins no problem if I do this while on the car or off.

I'm 99% sure it's got something to do with the ignition switch wire. I'll clean it off today (I used dielectric grease to protect it from corrosion, but maybe it seeped in and stopped the current flow through the spade terminal?). See if that helps, and if it does, I'll run a whole new wire to be certain it's good in the future.
 
Indeed, but I would still make sure the terminals are tip top. Do you have a test light probe? You could connect the alligator clip to the solenoid connector then stuff the probe into the neg bat terminal and see if the light comes on when you turn it to start. Then you could also leave it there, in the start position while you wiggle wires and tap on relay's to see if it blinks on.

this may help
starter_circuit.jpg
 
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^Yeah, because a weak starter 'start' signal would not result in all the other symptoms. A bad engine to battery conection POS and/or NEG....
 
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