Smashed Electrode

J

Jack Daniels

Member
My 2003.5 P5 has had a miss at idle for the past two days. I finally got around to pulling the plugs and one of them has a smashed electrode. Is this definately a VICS screw issue? For the record, my VIN was outside of the recall.

I removed all the plugs and had my wife crank the engine while I looked down the spark plug hole and saw nothing bouncing around in there.
 
Here are a couple of pics....
 

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Jack Daniels said:
I removed all the plugs and had my wife crank the engine while I looked down the spark plug hole and saw nothing bouncing around in there.
Click to expand...

That sounds like it might have been detrimental to your ocular integrity.

If there had been an itty bitty screw in there when you were looking down the plug hole it might have been pretty distressing when it decided to exit the cylinder when your cornea was in the way! Sure, the engine was turning slowly so it probably wouldn't have had the same velocity it did when it smashed the electrode, but then, your eye isn't made of metal.
 
Anything constructive to add?

pasadena_commut said:
That sounds like it might have been detrimental to your ocular integrity.

If there had been an itty bitty screw in there when you were looking down the plug hole it might have been pretty distressing when it decided to exit the cylinder when your cornea was in the way! Sure, the engine was turning slowly so it probably wouldn't have had the same velocity it did when it smashed the electrode, but then, your eye isn't made of metal.
Click to expand...
 
Well the smashed one seems a little blacker than the other 3. Not seeing how it could have lost a screw that hit electrode once & then out the exh without rattling around. I guess it could be possible. Did you get a code? Could one single instance of detonation have done that? Curious. I guess you could drop the front of the midpipe & see if you find the screw next to the screen on the front of the cat(if it is still oem). Could the plug just be bad & not burning the gas as much as the others maybe? It would explain it being sootier, right?
 
i12drivemyMP5 said:
Well the smashed one seems a little blacker than the other 3. Not seeing how it could have lost a screw that hit electrode once & then out the exh without rattling around. I guess it could be possible. Did you get a code? Could one single instance of detonation have done that? Curious. I guess you could drop the front of the midpipe & see if you find the screw next to the screen on the front of the cat(if it is still oem). Could the plug just be bad & not burning the gas as much as the others maybe? It would explain it being sootier, right?
Click to expand...

Something smashed the electrode. I have not gotten any SES lights. I haven't scanned for codes yet (I have AutoTap). The only thing I noticed was misfires at idle for the past couple days. I'm sure that the plug got a little fouled from the misfiring.

The big questions in my mind are.... is there a screw missing from the VICS now? Was there any cylinder/valve/other damage done? Should I take it to the dealer?

My car is bone stock and has 40k on the clock.
 
Jack Daniels said:
Something smashed the electrode. I have not gotten any SES lights. I haven't scanned for codes yet (I have AutoTap). The only thing I noticed was misfires at idle for the past couple days. I'm sure that the plug got a little fouled from the misfiring.

The big questions in my mind are.... is there a screw missing from the VICS now? Was there any cylinder/valve/other damage done? Should I take it to the dealer?

My car is bone stock and has 40k on the clock.
Click to expand...
Dealer is a scary proposition unless you go in knowing what's wrong & tell them exactly what you want done. Even then I'd rather go to the dentist. Cool, I have autotap also. Have had it since 98 or so when I had my mustang. I would drop the midpipe & check for screw in front side of cat or put in new plugs & see how she runs first-cheap checks.
 
Jack Daniels said:
Something smashed the electrode. I have not gotten any SES lights. I haven't scanned for codes yet (I have AutoTap). The only thing I noticed was misfires at idle for the past couple days. I'm sure that the plug got a little fouled from the misfiring.

The big questions in my mind are.... is there a screw missing from the VICS now? Was there any cylinder/valve/other damage done? Should I take it to the dealer?

My car is bone stock and has 40k on the clock.
Click to expand...
Like i12drivemyMP5 said, open 'er up and see if there's a screw on the screen on the pre cat. If there is, there's ur answer.
 
If there is, you sucked a screw and if you can't do the VICS repair urself, take it to the dealership. If you didn't hear any strange noises and it somehow bounced once, hit the electrode then went out an exhaust valve, chances are it didn't do anything major. If you do find a screw, it would probably be a good idea to get the cyliner that plug came out of scoped to see if anything's scratched up
 
aMaff said:
If there is, you sucked a screw and if you can't do the VICS repair urself, take it to the dealership. If you didn't hear any strange noises and it somehow bounced once, hit the electrode then went out an exhaust valve, chances are it didn't do anything major. If you do find a screw, it would probably be a good idea to get the cyliner that plug came out of scoped to see if anything's scratched up
Click to expand...

I'm going to call the dealer. I can certainly do the VICS repair myself, but I'd hate to go to the trouble when the car's under warranty and there's an ongoing recall for the issue. On the other hand, I hate for the dealer monkeys to be wrenching on my car.

There's no doubt something went through the cylinder and smashed the plug. I put those plugs in myself about three months ago.
 
Jack Daniels said:
Anything constructive to add?
Click to expand...

Sure.

If you think there's still a small object in the cylinder try extracting it. This can be done blindly without any risk of blinding yourself. I've used this trick before to retrieve small unreachable and unseeable objects. Never tried it before in an engine cylinder but it should work.

Go to a hardware store and obtain a bit of soft plastic or rubber tubing that's narrower than the plug hole. Cut one end at around a 45 degree angle. Obtain an old nylon stocking from your wife, double over a patch of it to form a sort of pouch and then attach that to the other (blunt) end of the tube with a hose clamp. Thread the pouch end into a vacuum cleaner hose and close off the gap between the inner tube and hose with tape. Check that the suction is ok and that the clamp holds. If the suction is too strong poke a hole or two in the tape. Then while holding onto the tube and hose (so that if the tape gives way the whole thing doesn't suck back into the vacuum) thread the tube through the hole a bit and turn on the vacuum. Thread the tube down until it hits the cylinder and then sweep it around a bit. It should only take a couple of seconds to capture the object if it's really there. If there's a screw or some other debris in there it will be sucked up and end up in the nylon pouch.

The 45 degree cut keeps the tube from sucking tight onto the top of the piston. Be sure to first clean out the area above the plug hole really well since the suction will tend to pull any crud there down into the cylinder. You could also just use a clean new vacuum cleaner bag and skip the pouch but then if there is something in the cylinder it's going to bang all the way through your vacuum.

Don't do this if you smell gasoline vapor coming up out of the plug hole!
 
I think that the screw has been passed through to the exhaust. My concern is that it's now missing from the butterfly and that it may have caused some damage in the cylinder.
 
Well I drove it into work. Running fine, no rattling, no SES light. I really think the screw has passed through. I'm going to call the dealer and just see how they react.
 
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