Replacing a 10W0 with an eD 11Kv.2

[1Canuck2]

A while back, I bought a JL 10W0 4 ohm svc sub.
I built a 0.75 cu.ft box for it and have been happy, however, looking at the great prices on the new eD 11Kv.2, I am considering buying one.

What do you think of the idea of simply swapping the drivers (assuming the cutout is the same). The eD is a DVC, so I'd be able to make more of my MRP-M350 amp by wiring the a 4ohm DVC in parallel. The XMax on this thing is 14mm compared to the W0's 8.6

The cabinet size is a little larger than recommended (they suggest 0.5), any ideas on how to reduce the volume a little without making a whole new box? I can;t find the driver displacement spec, but I assume it isn;t much larger then the 0.05 of the W0.

Thoughts on this idea would be appreciated. Would I get a notcieable upgrade in performance for the $80 purchase price of the Kv.2? Plus, I could sell my W0.

 

[got wake?]

i'd swap them out. the kv.2 should absolutely destroy the w0. the xmax is not quite double, but the xsus is about double. you would theoretically see a 3 dB gain in output from air movement alone. the recomended sealed enclosure is .4-.6 cu ft. the sub probably takes up .06-.08 cu ft. it's definitely got a larger motor than the w0. that's close to their recomendation. if you felt the need to lower it any more, cut a few pieces of 2x4's and screw or glue them inside the box but i doubt you'd notice a difference. you will however notice a difference by increasing your amps output by so much. the kv.2 won't be as efficient (ie needs more power) as the w0, so the extra power will definitely be a good thing. the kv.2 will run great off the 350 watts you amp will be throwing at it.

hey 1sty, look familiar:
http://www.edesignaudio.com/powerchart.jpg

 

[1Canuck2]

That charts looks like a JL chart, if thats what you meant.

Anyway, I am really tempted to do this... talk me down if you can.

So to get things straight:
my MRP-M350 does 200W at 4 Ohm and 350W at 2 Ohm

By buying the 4 ohm model of the Kv.2 and wiring its coils in parallel, I'll present a 2 Ohm load to the amp, essentially unleashing the true power of my amp. This power will be driving a significantly more efficient sub driver, thus the gains will be even further.

All for only $80!

Of course, this is likely to accelerate my desire for some components and a 2 channel amp since my sub will easily outpace my speakers now...
Oh well.

 

[got wake?]

you got your thinking right on the amp. get the dual 4 ohm model and wire them in parallel. the amp will see a 2 ohm load and put out 350 watts rms. that's plenty for the sub.

also, from running the #'s, the kv.2 is also a more efficient driver. at 1 watt 1 meter it's spl rating is 87.15 dB, while the w0 is 85.5. although that rating is not exact, and is not super important, in theory if you were running the exact same power to the kv.2, you'd still be louder than the w0. i'd be willing to bet that over all you'd see about a 4 dB increase in output with the kv.2, which is VERY audible

 

[1Canuck2]

Any other opinions?

 

[servoeyes]

I hate to sounds prejudiced...but go eD all the way or step up to a better JL. There's others out there that might do the job as well...Image Dynamics makes a fine small box sub, and Eclipse Alums are very nice. There's also Adire Audio, Resonant Engineering...etc., etc., etc. Plenty of good companies, just grab what is gonna be the best fit for your box, price, and shipping/availabilty need.

 

[1Canuck2]

So are there other 10's that can compare with the $80 price of the new eD?

I have a 15" Dayton DVC in my HT sub, which is essentially the same as the Adire Tempest when you compare TS specs.

 

[got wake?]

So are there other 10's that can compare with the $80 price of the new eD?

nope. and if you were to find a "killer" deal on e-bay, you still wouldn't get the 3 year warranty that comes with the ED sub

 

[1Canuck2]

So, I can get the 11Kv.2 for $120CAN on the pre-order, direct from a Canadian dealer. It will be $161CAN all in ($20 shipping and taxes). However, if I order the 11KV.2 and the NINe.2 amp, its gonna be $362.25 (free shipping on orders over $150). Basically, this means I get the NINe.2 amp for $200. Here's the amp specs:
RMS Power @ 4 Ohm Bridged: 400x1 (@12.5v) - .5%THD
RMS Power @ 4 Ohm Stereo: 100x2 (12.5v) - 0.05% THD
RMS Power @ 2Ohm Stereo: 150x2 (12.5v) - 0.05% THD
Signal to Niose Ratio: -95dBA
Variable Input Sensativity: 150 mVolt - 7.0V
Variable High Pass X-Over: Yes
Variable Low Pass X-Over: Yes
Current & Thermal Protection: Yes
Dual Power Supply: Yes
Fuse: 2x40

Anyone know anything about the amp? If its a brand new product, then I guess peeps won;t have much knowledge on it, but should I risk it? I already have the Alpine MRP-M350 sub amp, so I'd look to use the NINe.2 as an amp for a set of front components, would it be a good choice for this? Its 100W at 4Ohm stereo.

Looking for opinions, as $200 for a decent amp for up front is pretty tempting. I really just want the 11Kv.2, but begrudge that shipping charge (of course, I could order $30 worth of other stuff to get the free shipping and be done with the amp if its not worth the risk).

Help me out like I know you can...

 

[1sty]

A warrenty is no gaurentee the product will actualy work. Its only a promise to send you some form of replacemnt if you have an issue. There is nothing that says it will be a new or even QC'd speaker. eD also hasn't been the most reliable when it comes to shipping times. Expect to wait for this speaker.
Given eDs recent problems, I would give them time to sort things out, I wouldn't reccomend either.
For $200 get the alpine MRP-F240. I have personaly used 3 and sold countless others. I have yet to see one have any problems.
Its tried and true. The only thing I don't like about it is that the Alpine amp doesn't have adjustable crossovers.

Its only $200 at full retial and you can bridge the 4 channels down to 2 to get about the power your looking for. Not to mention if you buy it retial your risking nothing. Any problems, then just walk in and get a new one.

If you want even more amp for the money you can check out sounddomain.com for there close out deals on PG amps.

 

[1Canuck2]

Thanks for the response 1sty. By $200, I mean $200CAN, which is somethign like $150 US.
I hear you on the eDesign comments, I am on the fence. I just posted in your other thread about eDesign.

I'll look into the MRP-F240, but one question. If you bridge a four channel amp to a two channel amp, won't I need 2Ohm speakers? Aren't most components 4 Ohm?

Also, which PG amp would you recomend? The Tantrums; the Octanes; or the TI? The tantrums are on sale at cardomain...

 

[Poseur]

nope, 20hm bridged will not be good fo the amp actually. Bridging is where you take 2 channels and make them one, Same way you do with a 2ch amp for a single subwoofer, only in this case, you'd be making 4channels into 2,so what used to be the front L&R channls will now be left, and what used to be Rear L&R channels will now be Right. The only one problem with going this route is if you ever get speakers like Boston Acoustics that are 3ohms. I personally had to passup a pretty decent deal on a pair of bostons for exactly that reason.

As far as the amps, they're essentally Avionixx, I've got avi-made tsunami's that were STUPID cheap. I couldn't not do it. Sofar I had one issue and it's one I was xpecting, when I bought it, Ben from eD told me that they don't like being bridged, and that was part of th reaoning behind the price. I'd initially never intended to use it thusly, but I did, and a couple months later it blew. However, avionixx had it repaired and back to me legitimately 1 week from the day I sent it off.

 

[1sty]

Thanks for the response 1sty. By $200, I mean $200CAN, which is somethign like $150 US.
I hear you on the eDesign comments, I am on the fence. I just posted in your other thread about eDesign.

I'll look into the MRP-F240, but one question. If you bridge a four channel amp to a two channel amp, won't I need 2Ohm speakers? Aren't most components 4 Ohm?

Also, which PG amp would you recomend? The Tantrums; the Octanes; or the TI? The tantrums are on sale at cardomain...

POsuers right you want a 4 ohm component.

THe PG tantrums and Ti are the way to go. Ti - the Hotness

 

[1sty]

As far as the amps, they're essentally Avionixx, I've got avi-made tsunami's that were STUPID cheap. I couldn't not do it. Sofar I had one issue and it's one I was xpecting, when I bought it, Ben from eD told me that they don't like being bridged, and that was part of th reaoning behind the price. I'd initially never intended to use it thusly, but I did, and a couple months later it blew. However, avionixx had it repaired and back to me legitimately 1 week from the day I sent it off.

Can it still not be bridged? What amps were like this?

The hilarity ensues(dark)

 

[got wake?]

Can it still not be bridged? What amps were like this?

The hilarity ensues(dark)

in many cases the avionixx/tsunami 4 channel amps cause noise to be added to the signal when bridged down to 2 channels. i haven't seen any specific reason why, but ben himself will tell you not to bridge them. course ben has nothing to do with avionixx/tsunami.

 

[Poseur]

It's the tsunami db 4440. Butyea like I said, that's why they were sold cheap. Speaking to the avionixx guys, they said just don't go below 4ohms bridged, and it's cool. *shrug* guess we'll findout, I'm not gonna stp running it this way, but I really don't care. if it goes out agian, There's a nice eclipse PA4212 at my shop waiting for me and a friend looking for a 4-ch amp.

 

[1sty]

It's the tsunami db 4440. Butyea like I said, that's why they were sold cheap. Speaking to the avionixx guys, they said just don't go below 4ohms bridged, and it's cool. *shrug* guess we'll findout, I'm not gonna stp running it this way, but I really don't care. if it goes out agian, There's a nice eclipse PA4212 at my shop waiting for me and a friend looking for a 4-ch amp.

Isn't the PA a two channel?

So the avionixx amps induce noise into a bridged setup?
What a peice of crap. There no excuse for that especialy when they have a bridged spec on them.

 

[servoeyes]

Isn't the PA a two channel?

So the avionixx amps induce noise into a bridged setup?
What a peice of crap. There no excuse for that especialy when they have a bridged spec on them.

Yep...the PA should be a 2 channel, I think...It's all he needs though. He took the rears out.

I'm still thinking I might move that Eclipse out of my car at some point...it's just running way too hot bridged like that. The Alpine MRV that's like 200$ seems like a hell of a deal, but I'd like to hear it first.

 

[1sty]

Do the CDTs run closer to 3 ohms?
Where is the amp located?
I have never seen one over heat.

 

[Poseur]

Noise is not the issue, it's thermal overload. And that's what happened, mine made electric toast. Sent it back, got it fixed, should be fine, but I'm gonna abuse it all the same. Sound is very good actually. and YES the Eclipse I'm looking at is a 2ch. Rated at 2x130w @4ohms... I'd much rather have a powerful 2ch amp than run a 4ch bridged. I'd get a 2x200w amp if I could find one that sounds alright that wasnt' gonna run me $600 and not fit under my seats.