Questions on making a P5 turbo.

[vltndennis]

Whats up fellas , i have been doing some research about the subject and i would like some info from people that have actually done it. So
far i have come up with the basic things that i will need.

Oem manifold
oem turbo
IC/piping kit https://www.ebay.com (commissions earned)
msp ecu

is there anything else i would need , or any other info?

 

[Bebotech]

You will need the oil feed and return lines as well as the coolant feed and return lines. You can drill and weld a fitting to the oil pan for oil return or buy the MSP Gurtle(I think that how it is called). Also,

get all of the gaskets (mani, turbo, etc.)

 

[whatusername]

Stop step away from the p5 and hand over the keys to a more responsible adult.
I have had nothing but trouble with my p5 since going turbo
But.... if u insist on doing it ur also gonna need a Wideband with oxygen sensor a boost gauge a oil pressure gauge a flex pipe added to the exhaust to keep the manifold from cracking alone (which it will still do )and another O2 bung welded on, much stronger motor mounts a SSAFC a free flowing exhaust AAA or a buddy with a tow truck a spare engine (for when u blow this one) S pipes and J pipe Either oem oil cooler setup with water lines or an aftermarket oil cooler,
1 step colder spark plugs from the Msp plugs not p5, 93 octane gas all the time, Either a oil drain fitting welded to the oil pan or do like i did and replace the MBSP AKA Windage tray with the one from the MSP.

 

[Vewdu]

Honestly dude, unless you love your P5 so much, you would own nothing but P5's till you die, it's really not worth it. For the amount of money and time you're going to sink into making it a turbo, you could probably get a car that'll be faster, and stronger, stock, and much easier to mod.

 

[vltndennis]

Honestly dude, unless you love your P5 so much, you would own nothing but P5's till you die, it's really not worth it. For the amount of money and time you're going to sink into making it a turbo, you could probably get a car that'll be faster, and stronger, stock, and much easier to mod.

When you say its not worth it , why exactly do you say this? I'm not looking to get high HP or anything like that. Just want to make it a little more enjoyable to drive.
How much would you actually say "its too much money" to dump into making a p5 turbo?

 

[whatusername]

here are some #'s for you.. keep in mind its a rough estimate and their may be more needed..
used :msp ecu $150 turbo scratch n sniff has 1 $400 FMIC ebay $152.00
Aem wideband With o2 $242.00 Boost gauge $60.00 (El Cheapo) Oil pressure gauge $75.00 Avg SSAFC $375.00 Performance Engine mounts $400.00 Manifold Stock New $700. Used $100+ used Catback $250.00 Pope Down pipe used $300 or add a flex to ur existing exhaust before cat. $125.00 and u need a S pipe $100 J pipe $100 Both used Mbsp $250 used or Weld a Fitting to oil pan $100.00 Turbo Timer HKS $140. Do not buy 1 of those $25.00 Hks from ebay they are fake.
If im missing something please others chime in

Using the cheapest ways on the parts i listed i came up with $2794.00 now if u buy it all new the price increases dramatically

 

[magnumP5]

^^^ You don't need half that. The easiest, cheapest route is to use 95% of the OEM MSP parts:

ECU
Turbo (with water feed/return and oil return lines)
Exhaust manifold
Downpipe (s- and j-pipes)
Oil feed line (tee's into oil pressure sending unit)
Water feed/return lines with banjo bolts (connect to the back of the block)

From there you'll need to source/make the following:

Intake (with provision for MAS)
Intercooler setup (with bypass/diverter valve setup)
Oil return for turbo
One-way check valve for emission system (to avoid pressurizing the gas tank)

That's the bare minimum needed and can probably be had for under $1500 if you're patient and/or look hard enough. If you plan on upping boost pressure a boost gauge and wideband air/fuel gauge are highly recommended. Any more than 8 psi and/or if you're planning on adding many other mods you'll need to look into some kind of air/fuel (and timing if you can find it) controller. If you plan on tracking/racing the car oil temperature and pressure gauges are also highly recommended.

 

[whatusername]

^^^ You don't need half that???????? The easiest, cheapest route is to use 95% of the OEM MSP parts:

ECU 150
Turbo (with water feed/return and oil return lines)400
Exhaust manifold 125-700
Downpipe (s- and j-pipes) 200
Oil feed line (tee's into oil pressure sending unit) 50
Water feed/return lines with banjo bolts (connect to the back of the block)???

From there you'll need to source/make the following:

Intake (with provision for MAS)
Intercooler setup (with bypass/diverter valve setup)
Oil return for turbo AKA MSBP 250 or WELDED FITTING ON OIL PAN 125
One-way check valve for emission system (to avoid pressurizing the gas tank) SAY WHAT? even i dont have that and have no issues with my gas tank being pressurized

That's the bare minimum needed and can probably be had for under $1500 if you're patient and/or look hard enough. If you plan on upping boost pressure a boost gauge and wideband air/fuel gauge are highly recommended.??? Really??? cuz a boost gauge is a must have and so is a wideband so he cam make sure he is not running too lean or rich and hurt the engine. along with oil pressure gauge since our cars SUFFER from oil starvation issues

Any more than 8 psi and/or if you're planning on adding many other mods you'll need to look into some kind of air/fuel (and timing if you can find it) controller. If you plan on tracking/racing the car oil temperature and pressure gauges are also highly recommended.

Theres the cheap to do it way and the right way YOU choose which one u wanna do... But ( lo barato sales carro ) which means the cheap come out expensive

 

[magnumP5]

Theres the cheap to do it way and the right way YOU choose which one u wanna do... But ( lo barato sales carro ) which means the cheap come out expensive

The way your response is formatted makes it hard to follow but I'll try to address your comments.

You say cheap way versus right way. Why would emulating the OEM MSP setup be considered the wrong way considering it was designed by a team of engineers?

If you're going to be running stock boost with a stock MSP turbo using the stock MSP ECU there's no need for a wideband. A boost gauge could be useful but if you're not going to touch the boost and the factory turbo wastegate actuator is fine what's the need?

The check valve goes on one of the vacuum lines running to the intake manifold. The thread explaining its need has been lost to time no doubt. Basically, the emission system allows gas vapor from the fuel tank into the intake manifold and charcoal cannister. To avoid pressurizing this system Mazda added a check valve in the MSP.

These cars only suffer oil starvation if the level is too low and/or if the car is being raced (autox or track). Oil temperature and pressure gauges are nice to have but not required if running a stock MSP setup.

I did all this 5-8 years ago so I'm very aware of the costs involved. I started with basically an OEM MSP kit with an aftermarket intercooler kit and went from there ultimately resulting in having just about every bolt on available. I jumped ship as the only next steps were a built engine, a built transmission, a bigger turbo, and a full stand-alone ECU.

 

[whatusername]

Granted its the oem setup but he is going with a FMIC as stated in his first post. And yes it was designed by engineers but they obviously did not account for heat soak Hence the FMIc Plus these engineers that u praise also made the car run pig rich which caused problems with it bogging down as I;m sure u already know.. Also there's a very good chance the OP will at 1 point get the urge to turn up the boost and if he is a young buck a very good chance he will b out on the weekends with his buddies drag racing and beating the hell out of it. One thing not pointed out by either of us is oil cooler. that is a must have yea the car will run wiithout it but if u run it hard the oil thins out and oil pressure drops substantially at least from what i see in my gauge.
So y not play it safe and do it right the first time? if he does it the cheapest way and he joins the Zoom Zoom Boom Club are you going to be there to help him swap the motor? he could have a huge vaccum leak and not notice it and run extremely lean or he can have no boost power and not know what it is and drive himself crazy trying to figure it out when a wideband would tell him he is running pig rich

 

[magnumP5]

Granted its the oem setup but he is going with a FMIC as stated in his first post. And yes it was designed by engineers but they obviously did not account for heat soak Hence the FMIc Plus these engineers that u praise also made the car run pig rich which caused problems with it bogging down as I;m sure u already know.. Also there's a very good chance the OP will at 1 point get the urge to turn up the boost and if he is a young buck a very good chance he will b out on the weekends with his buddies drag racing and beating the hell out of it. One thing not pointed out by either of us is oil cooler. that is a must have yea the car will run wiithout it but if u run it hard the oil thins out and oil pressure drops substantially at least from what i see in my gauge.
So y not play it safe and do it right the first time? if he does it the cheapest way and he joins the Zoom Zoom Boom Club are you going to be there to help him swap the motor? he could have a huge vaccum leak and not notice it and run extremely lean or he can have no boost power and not know what it is and drive himself crazy trying to figure it out when a wideband would tell him he is running pig rich

In stock form I'm not aware of any heat soaking issues with the MSP. Mazda designed the tune of these cars to err on the rich side to be safe as they do with all their cars. It was a bigger issue in the pre-flash '03 cars than the later '03.5 cars though. I ran a stock flashed ECU for over a year without any hesitation or bogging issues.

I can't speak for the OP. What he does with his car is his own business. If he decides to up the boost or go crazy there's plenty of recommendations of what he needs in this thread already.

An oil cooler is up there with oil pressure and temperature gauges. It's only needed (and highly recommended) if the car will see racing. The OEM MSP oil cooler is pathetic; it's not worth the time, money, or effort.

Again, if he runs a stock MSP setup why is that not doing it right the first time? How many stock MSP's have spontaneously developed a huge vacuum leak, ran lean, and blown their engines on the street? These things did not come stock with widebands and boost gauges for a reason; they weren't needed. I have a coworker with a stock '03 and it's still going strong.

My point is the OP asked what was needed (i.e. required) to turbocharge a Protege5. I provided the minimum, cheapest parts needed to safely turbocharge the car and operate it as Mazda intended. Any use or modification beyond that will certainly require more and I'm sure the OP will heed that advice.

 

[Vewdu]

When you say its not worth it , why exactly do you say this? I'm not looking to get high HP or anything like that. Just want to make it a little more enjoyable to drive.
How much would you actually say "its too much money" to dump into making a p5 turbo?

On top of whatusername said, you're going to need new, stronger internals, because if you run boost on your stock P5 FS-DE engine, it'll turn into a Zoom zoom boom. There isn't a massive aftermarket performance catalogue for our cars, so you're going to run into a lot of little and some big bugs that if you don't know how to do it, or aren't very knowledgable on engines, you'll be paying a shop a lot of money to do. Even then though, if you turbo'd your car, your going to have to take it in to get tuned so you get peak performance, and hopefully it wont blow apart on the dyno. For $3500, I could find an older model (94-01) subaru impreza, maybe even a WRX, and right off the bat I have a car that has a much vaster array of performance options, as well, i'm making a lot more torque and HP stock than my P5.

To me personally, I think turboing a P5 is a bad investment, but everyone has a different opinion, and reason as to why they want to do it, or have done it, and thus view it differently. If you want to make your car more exciting to drive, take it to a track one day, it's always more fun to drive a slow car fast, than a fast car slow anyways.

If you really have an itch to mod it for performance, look into a KL series swap, if you have the mechanical know how, it wont be as harsh on your wallet, and it's a little less of a headache.

 

[tweety2300]

You guys are funny

It's not that expensive for a protege. Y'all are posting up new prices that are way high when you can easily buy used. Just my ems for my 323 is gonna run as much as I paid for the car. And the expression on my wife's face when I told her how much I paid for the garret gt28 was priceless

Btw $242 for an aem wideband? News flash they're $200 and innovate which is better is 200 as well

You damn sure don't need to dig into the internals unless you're going for more than 250 whp which you will need a piggy back for

$1500 to boost a car isn't that bad. People pay more than that for 90's civics all the time.

I would however highly suggest getting a cheap daily. I picked up a celica for $700 just so I won't have to worry if my project throws a rod or trans pukes up a gear. It will also be easier on it and you when there are issues

 

[whatusername]

You guys are funny

It's not that expensive for a protege. Y'all are posting up new prices that are way high when you can easily buy used.

Btw $242 for an aem wideband? News flash they're $200 and innovate which is better is 200 as well

s

my mistake its 217 not 242 http://www.aemelectronics.com/wideband-air-fuel-systems-15/digital-wideband-air-fuel-gauge-25/
and the prices i posted are fairly accurate the manifold 125 - 700 depends on used vs new and oem vs aftermarket that is the price range
the turbo price of 400 was a used turbo that scratch n sniff has in the for sale thread http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/show...d-Protege-Turbo-MINTY-Low-Miles-No-Shaft-Play
the Mbsp i was way off on i knew i saw it in a thread and its $120 not $250 http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/show...Oil-Return-Fitting-Hard-hot-pipe-Radio-Pocket
the J pipe and S pipe i was correct on http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/show...e-SALE-Closet-Clean-OUT!-MSP-Stuff-and-Others!
Ecu price was also correct http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?123835671-MSP-Protege-Parts-for-Sale
so Tweets i didnt use new prices as u can see

 

[vltndennis]

Granted its the oem setup but he is going with a FMIC as stated in his first post. And yes it was designed by engineers but they obviously did not account for heat soak Hence the FMIc Plus these engineers that u praise also made the car run pig rich which caused problems with it bogging down as I;m sure u already know.. Also there's a very good chance the OP will at 1 point get the urge to turn up the boost and if he is a young buck a very good chance he will b out on the weekends with his buddies drag racing and beating the hell out of it. One thing not pointed out by either of us is oil cooler. that is a must have yea the car will run wiithout it but if u run it hard the oil thins out and oil pressure drops substantially at least from what i see in my gauge.
So y not play it safe and do it right the first time? if he does it the cheapest way and he joins the Zoom Zoom Boom Club are you going to be there to help him swap the motor? he could have a huge vaccum leak and not notice it and run extremely lean or he can have no boost power and not know what it is and drive himself crazy trying to figure it out when a wideband would tell him he is running pig rich

You might want to take a step back and stop making these assumptions about me. Im no "young buck" , neither noob when it comes to cars but i do admit i am new to this particular car and turbos in general. And no i will not be street racing with my "buddies" on the weekends. Some of the things you wrote , i find them hard to believe but to each his own. Thank you for the info

 

[whatusername]

ok go head n find them hard to believe but search the threads and see i was right. im boosted ur not i know exactly what is involved in boosting this car and i was nice enough to post links to the stuff for sale..
Where was the assumption? it says and IF HE IS A YOUNG BUCK not that u r a young buck.. i live in orlando and see all these kids drag racing all the time so its second nature to me.. sorry ur so sensitive but i will take a step back from this thread ive said all i wanted to say.. good luck with the car

 

[vltndennis]

The way your response is formatted makes it hard to follow but I'll try to address your comments.

You say cheap way versus right way. Why would emulating the OEM MSP setup be considered the wrong way considering it was designed by a team of engineers?

If you're going to be running stock boost with a stock MSP turbo using the stock MSP ECU there's no need for a wideband. A boost gauge could be useful but if you're not going to touch the boost and the factory turbo wastegate actuator is fine what's the need?

The check valve goes on one of the vacuum lines running to the intake manifold. The thread explaining its need has been lost to time no doubt. Basically, the emission system allows gas vapor from the fuel tank into the intake manifold and charcoal cannister. To avoid pressurizing this system Mazda added a check valve in the MSP.

These cars only suffer oil starvation if the level is too low and/or if the car is being raced (autox or track). Oil temperature and pressure gauges are nice to have but not required if running a stock MSP setup.

I did all this 5-8 years ago so I'm very aware of the costs involved. I started with basically an OEM MSP kit with an aftermarket intercooler kit and went from there ultimately resulting in having just about every bolt on available. I jumped ship as the only next steps were a built engine, a built transmission, a bigger turbo, and a full stand-alone ECU.

You pretty much nailed what i was thinking. What i had/have in mind is basically use as much as i can from the msp without the smic. but i needed a little more info on what parts are needed to make this happen and what parts are better to go aftermarket instead of oem.

 

[vltndennis]

ok go head n find them hard to believe but search the threads and see i was right. im boosted ur not i know exactly what is involved in boosting this car and i was nice enough to post links to the stuff for sale..
Where was the assumption? it says and IF HE IS A YOUNG BUCK not that u r a young buck.. i live in orlando and see all these kids drag racing all the time so its second nature to me.. sorry ur so sensitive but i will take a step back from this thread ive said all i wanted to say.. good luck with the car

Look , im from Orlando too but just because i also see it all the time doesnt mean im gonna " think" that everyone on this forums or whatever is going to do so also.

 

[whatusername]

Look , im from Orlando too but just because i also see it all the time doesnt mean im gonna " think" that everyone on this forums or whatever is going to do so also.

Pm'ed