Question regarding possible dealership negligence.

I

Indelibility

Member
Long story short.

7/28: Bought my 2006 Mazda5 from a Ford dealership. They claimed they did a full inspection of the vehicle, mounted new tires, passed inspection, and was ready to "go cross county worry free". For $8,500 and only 75,685 miles on it, seemed to fit what we needed perfectly.

8/07: Took it to the Mazda dealership at 75,533 miles because I noticed am engine shudder at idle. Turns out there was a TSB for an ECU reflash. I get it done for $178.62, they also told me that the passenger motor mount was broken and that they had used an abundance of grease on the suspension to quiet the ride. I get the reflash done, I figured I'd do the motor mount myself since they wanted to charge far too much.

8/12: Install the new motor mount for $99.40, easy. At this point I'm a bit peeved that they sold me a car with a busted motor mount and worn suspension (the suspension seemed fine during the test Drive, but eventually the grease wore off creating squeaks). So I write the Ford dealership a letter. I never get a reply.

9/02: The brakes failed at 77,251 miles. Luckily it was a low impact collision (less than 10mph). Of course I admit fault and insurance takes care of everything after I pay the deductible. After it leaves the collision center I have it taken to another Mazda dealership where they inform me that the master cylinder has an internal leak, thus why the brakes failed causing the accident. $547.67 later I have a new master cylinder and the car drives great and looks like new.

The vehicle was sold "as-is", but they also gave me a verbal promise of the condition of the vehicle, stressing how thorough their service department inspects every vehicle before selling them on the lot. Even going so far as to claim it cost them $800 to "recondition" the vehicle. The tech at the Mazda dealership says they should have caught the leaking master cylinder since it was an obvious part.

I like the vehicle, and my insurance company is talking about suing them for negligence to cover the cost of repairs. Do you think I have a case on my own against them? I just want to be fully reimbursed for my out-of-pocket expenses on parts that they should have recognized as broken and faulty.

Thoughts?
 
Walk in with an unsigned but complete contract with the local paper for a full-page ad in Section A describing your experience. I imagine they would take a real interest in potential customers reading about you CRASHING because they ignored a brake booster. If you don't get the owner's attention, run the ad. Of course, maybe your local news program has a "consumer-advocate" segment they do and could get you the same results for free.
 
If you don't have documentation describing their inspection process I don't think you'll get anything. You bought the vehicle as-is, what they said to you is going to be hard to prove.
 
7/28: Bought my 2006 Mazda5… only 75,685 miles on it…
8/07: Took it to the Mazda dealership at 75,533…
Click to expand...
That’s one awesome feature! :D

The vehicle was sold "as-is", but they also gave me a verbal promise of the condition of the vehicle, stressing how thorough their service department inspects every vehicle before selling them on the lot. Even going so far as to claim it cost them $800 to "recondition" the vehicle. The tech at the Mazda dealership says they should have caught the leaking master cylinder since it was an obvious part.
Click to expand...
I feel your pain. I know first hand what it is like for the brakes to fail when you need to stop the car.

Sorry to say this but it sounds like you don’t have much. Without a written statement, you have no proof and technically they did go over the car –to what level of detail is open to proof which you are on the short of the stick due to the “as-is” clause. They probably did take the car on a short test drive just to make sure everything runs and like you didn’t notice anything obvious (I hope you test drove it too). It is on you to check the condition of the car and to bring your own mechanic. It would be different if the car is sold “certified” used; then they would be on the hook.

You best bet is probably stirring the pot and inform you city counsel/representative of this dealer’s “dangerous and negligent practice” to see if they will cover the repair cost. Or, as thanxman commented, see if any news outlet will pick up your story (it’s not that easy b/c they get lots of topics too). I would not suggest going on the offensive with the new paper ad right off the bat b/c they might sue you back for slander and defamation. If you end up loosing and this affects their business, you might end up loosing a whole lot more…

AFAIK “recondition” typically means washing/vacuuming/pin stripping -all superficial stuff to give the car more eye candy. At least your car is good as new and you are happy with it (the product, not the experience). Good luck.
 
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Sorry to hear about the accident but glad that you are ok. With a faulty master cylinder, the car should have never been deemed roadworthy IMHO. Yeah, that as-is is the dealership's safety net... If you DO decide to go to court with them, keep in mind they have lawyers who will drag it out until you canno longer afford the retainer and just drop it out of frustration. I'm speaking from experience. (not for my 5 though)
 
That’s what I don’t’ quite understand. I would assume he test drove the car and the brakes worked to his satisfaction. Under the same circumstances, you’d have to give the Ford dealer the same benefit of the doubt that it worked too. It is only immoral, not illegal, if they where half ass in their assessment of the car but since they are selling it “as-is”. Unless he only drove it around the block, a leak becomes pronounce very quickly after a few pumps. He has also driven (stopped) for ~2K miles for this to become an issue. Maybe there’s something else going on but we don’t have full background.

Also, keep in mind the argument is coming from the Mazda dealership, which has already done the work. Did they or the OP keep the old unit and can show proof? Did the accident/police report say the fault was due to the failed braking system? Not making allegations but keep in mind there is a possibility that the Mazda dealer over-exaggerated the problem to bill a more comprehensive job. We would need to know exactly what/where the “internal leak” is and if it is internal, how is it obvious? The sad part is the OP is stuck in the middle with not much going for him…
 
In opinion, it's not worth it unless you can find a lawyer very cheap. The retainer will cost you more than the repairs. Also, if you don't have anything written down, you have very low chance of succeeding in court.

Post a comment in Yelp about that dealer and inform the dealer - this will impact their sales. You may get some $ from them.

re: suspension squeaks - check the sway bar bushings - several threads on here

other things to check - how does the ATF look? Cheap insurance to drain & fill 3x for a known problem area.
 
The Mazda dealership kept the part as a core-exchange. The master cylinder was leaking internally.

I did test drive it, twice. It felt fine thought the brakes were a bit spongy, I contributed this to the vehicle itself since every model feels different when driven. As I drove the car more the sponginess became more apparent, though went away when I pressed more firmly on the brake pedal (build up pressure).

The bushings replacement I did find, and already ordered the JBR rear sway bar to help aid with the suspension woes. (sssh)

The car drove just fine the day of the accident. Until I came to the stop light, then they failed completely. Luckily I pumped the brakes enough to re-build some pressure and slow the vehicle down to less than 8-10 mph before impact.


Guess I'll see what they say. I'm not out to ruin their reputation or land a big settlement. Nobody was hurt and the car is in good mechanical condition now. It's be nice if they reimburse me for the expenses to fix what they missed, but at this point I'm not hoping for much.

They can at least apologize, lol.
 
Don't waste your time... The "as-is" marketed vehicle will get you no where in court. They can always show proof that at the time of safety inspection all checked out perfect but being a several year old car with that many miles the dealer or any other dealer will always sell it as an "as-is" unit and yes that will be their safety net.
 
I know you might be frustrated. But the car is used and who knows who had it and how they drove it, and whether it was in an accident. I assume most Mazda5 owners keep their car unless there is something really wrong with it or it might have been a rental, who knows. But I would recommend instead of wasting your time going around lawyers and the dealership, use the time to fix the problems and move on with life. I personally hate used cars and each one I had was a money pit...
 
I had similar experience in the past. Keep submitting the exact story on local BBB, if they close them, keep reopening the case. I got every cent from the dealer after a smililar experience.
Indelibility said:
Long story short.

7/28: Bought my 2006 Mazda5 from a Ford dealership. They claimed they did a full inspection of the vehicle, mounted new tires, passed inspection, and was ready to "go cross county worry free". For $8,500 and only 75,685 miles on it, seemed to fit what we needed perfectly.

8/07: Took it to the Mazda dealership at 75,533 miles because I noticed am engine shudder at idle. Turns out there was a TSB for an ECU reflash. I get it done for $178.62, they also told me that the passenger motor mount was broken and that they had used an abundance of grease on the suspension to quiet the ride. I get the reflash done, I figured I'd do the motor mount myself since they wanted to charge far too much.

8/12: Install the new motor mount for $99.40, easy. At this point I'm a bit peeved that they sold me a car with a busted motor mount and worn suspension (the suspension seemed fine during the test Drive, but eventually the grease wore off creating squeaks). So I write the Ford dealership a letter. I never get a reply.

9/02: The brakes failed at 77,251 miles. Luckily it was a low impact collision (less than 10mph). Of course I admit fault and insurance takes care of everything after I pay the deductible. After it leaves the collision center I have it taken to another Mazda dealership where they inform me that the master cylinder has an internal leak, thus why the brakes failed causing the accident. $547.67 later I have a new master cylinder and the car drives great and looks like new.

The vehicle was sold "as-is", but they also gave me a verbal promise of the condition of the vehicle, stressing how thorough their service department inspects every vehicle before selling them on the lot. Even going so far as to claim it cost them $800 to "recondition" the vehicle. The tech at the Mazda dealership says they should have caught the leaking master cylinder since it was an obvious part.

I like the vehicle, and my insurance company is talking about suing them for negligence to cover the cost of repairs. Do you think I have a case on my own against them? I just want to be fully reimbursed for my out-of-pocket expenses on parts that they should have recognized as broken and faulty.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
 
Indelibility said:
The Mazda dealership kept the part as a core-exchange. The master cylinder was leaking internally.

I did test drive it, twice. It felt fine thought the brakes were a bit spongy, I contributed this to the vehicle itself since every model feels different when driven. As I drove the car more the sponginess became more apparent, though went away when I pressed more firmly on the brake pedal (build up pressure).

The bushings replacement I did find, and already ordered the JBR rear sway bar to help aid with the suspension woes. (sssh)

The car drove just fine the day of the accident. Until I came to the stop light, then they failed completely. Luckily I pumped the brakes enough to re-build some pressure and slow the vehicle down to less than 8-10 mph before impact.


Guess I'll see what they say. I'm not out to ruin their reputation or land a big settlement. Nobody was hurt and the car is in good mechanical condition now. It's be nice if they reimburse me for the expenses to fix what they missed, but at this point I'm not hoping for much.

They can at least apologize, lol.
Click to expand...
At least you are in good spirits about it.

Did the Mazda dealer show you where it was leaking internally? Based on what you described, it does not sound like a "leak", which I define as loosing fluid. In such a leak, there is no building pressure. It sounds like the plunger seal in the master cyclinder failed or not holding pressure (fluid passes through it). If so, it would be hard to see but you can feel it, which you did observe some anomaly but didn't bring it to their attention during your test drive. If you had brought it to their attention and they waved you off, you would have more ammo to go back at them.

The internals of the master cyclinder is actually quite simple. There are rebuild kits for them b/c the seals do fail over time but a 2006 seems too earl but that is a OE Mazda quality issue.

Btw, be weary of used cars, especially ones that he been registered to NJ/NY within the last year when hurrican Sandy hit. There was a nightly news segment pointing out that tens of thousands of hurrican Sandy flooded cars, that "should" have gone to the crusher, got title washed and leaked back into the used car market. Sea water damaged cars are unrepairable. Oh and don't take any word a salesman says to you seriously, half-truth at most.
 
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As-Is does not mean hiding issues. If it was disclosed honestly from the get go, then there would be no issue. I bought a car used "as-is" but they knew about water pump issue and broke down driving home. Believe me, that argument "as-is" simple does not work.
Davicho said:
Don't waste your time... The "as-is" marketed vehicle will get you no where in court. They can always show proof that at the time of safety inspection all checked out perfect but being a several year old car with that many miles the dealer or any other dealer will always sell it as an "as-is" unit and yes that will be their safety net.
Click to expand...
 
Well, it's a start. They agreed to reimburse me for the motor mount, the master cylinder is debatable since it was an unknown issue. I have meeting with the manager tomorrow to see what we can work out.

So far so good!
 
If brakes are working fine and motor mount isn't leaking, it's hard to imagine that the dealer could've found either issue. The brake issue is almost impossible to foresee. As Silent said, it's a used car. This stuff goes along with buying a used car. My suggestion is to be glad that nobody was hurt and proceed with fixing your car. I believe that if you start maintaining it properly, it will still be a good value in the end.

Good luck.
 
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