bestmazda01
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1killercls said:
I never said I was Christian... stop jumping to conclusions. There are many more religions besides Christianity.
Poll: Is there an Afterlife?
- Thread starter ghetto waggon
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I never said I was Christian... stop jumping to conclusions. There are many more religions besides Christianity.
bestmazda01
Banned
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- 1997 Protege JUST GOT 02 PRO!
what religion do you practice, i thought you said you didn't believe anything....?
(serious...)
(serious...)
njaremka said:
Actually that is incorrect.. while those quotes are correct the "new covenant" afforded by Jesus dying for our sins alters the understanding of those statements.... and we also can be forgiven of sins...
Figured I'd through it out in case it wasn't covered
.How many people have heard the poker analogy?
Say you get to play one of two hands in one of two betting tables... If you bet at Table A and win you get a payout of 100 dollars. If you lose there you lose 10 million dollars. If you go to Table B and bet and win you win 10 million dollars, and if you lose you lose 100 bucks.
So which table should you bet at? Answer it to yourself right now....
Ok... so you chose Tabe B obviously (most will/should if they are being honest)
Table A is the table game that says God doesn't exist so F**k Him. If you win you were, right.. yay for you, you didn't live a lie here's 100 bucks... if you were wrong... oops... eternal damnation, yada yada yada burn in hell.
Table B is the table that says God exists... if you are right you win 10 million dollars and eternity in heaven etc. If you lose, whoops you lived a lie all your life, but you're dead so it doesn't matter....
It's an analogy that you can poke holes in it... but it's a good illustration (and it covers and includes the "everything has a soul" and various other non mono-theistic based religious views to a reasonable extent) Also, most christians/religious people would argue too that life is improved by being religious... that it's actually more fun and enjoyable and carefree... if you could erase 80% of the days you get depressed or sad or don't enjoy being alive would you believe in something even if it was false in the end (but you'd never know). What about 60% of bad days... or 50, or 30, or 10? When is the rate of return of "improvement" better than the loss of if it's wrong?
keep in mind that faith, God, and Religion are 3 very different things.... and very very very often the worst part of Religion is the people... those that pay lip service and don't do as they say they should do, or are critical of you for what you are or do... keep in mind that atheists who believe in "living a good life" are often just as hypocritical but by "default" are not held to a standard so therefore it's ok... and they forget to keep the measuring stick even.
There is also the watchmaker analogy... if you find a watch on the beach which is the plausible explanation... that someone/something that is a watchmaker made the watch... or that by a series of events based in straight probability that the watch came to exist by circumstance and mathematics and thus is there?
No one can make someone believe in religion, God, or an afterlife.... it's all about what does or doesn't click in your head and for you... a forced belief is not faith or free choice... you can't "love" someone or something by being forced into it... which sort of clarified that whole free will thing..
Say you get to play one of two hands in one of two betting tables... If you bet at Table A and win you get a payout of 100 dollars. If you lose there you lose 10 million dollars. If you go to Table B and bet and win you win 10 million dollars, and if you lose you lose 100 bucks.
So which table should you bet at? Answer it to yourself right now....
Ok... so you chose Tabe B obviously (most will/should if they are being honest)
Table A is the table game that says God doesn't exist so F**k Him. If you win you were, right.. yay for you, you didn't live a lie here's 100 bucks... if you were wrong... oops... eternal damnation, yada yada yada burn in hell.
Table B is the table that says God exists... if you are right you win 10 million dollars and eternity in heaven etc. If you lose, whoops you lived a lie all your life, but you're dead so it doesn't matter....
It's an analogy that you can poke holes in it... but it's a good illustration (and it covers and includes the "everything has a soul" and various other non mono-theistic based religious views to a reasonable extent) Also, most christians/religious people would argue too that life is improved by being religious... that it's actually more fun and enjoyable and carefree... if you could erase 80% of the days you get depressed or sad or don't enjoy being alive would you believe in something even if it was false in the end (but you'd never know). What about 60% of bad days... or 50, or 30, or 10? When is the rate of return of "improvement" better than the loss of if it's wrong?
keep in mind that faith, God, and Religion are 3 very different things.... and very very very often the worst part of Religion is the people... those that pay lip service and don't do as they say they should do, or are critical of you for what you are or do... keep in mind that atheists who believe in "living a good life" are often just as hypocritical but by "default" are not held to a standard so therefore it's ok... and they forget to keep the measuring stick even.
There is also the watchmaker analogy... if you find a watch on the beach which is the plausible explanation... that someone/something that is a watchmaker made the watch... or that by a series of events based in straight probability that the watch came to exist by circumstance and mathematics and thus is there?
No one can make someone believe in religion, God, or an afterlife.... it's all about what does or doesn't click in your head and for you... a forced belief is not faith or free choice... you can't "love" someone or something by being forced into it... which sort of clarified that whole free will thing..
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1killercls said:
Actually, athesim IS a religion... people like to forget that.. you hold to a prescribed set of beliefes (a religion) that in one way or another states that there is no supereme deity in the world... hence you are an atheist.
If you were an agnostic you would not have a religion... an agnostic is someone who neither confirms nor denies that a god, spirit, life force, karma, etc exists and is in theory equally dispositioned for and against all of them.
TurfBurn said:
I think it's a stretch to call atheism a religion, and even more of a stretch to say Religion is only a set of beliefs. While that is somewhat true, There is more to religion than that
religion n.
1. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
2. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.
1. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
2. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.
I used to think I was agnostic, but then I decided that I was being wishy-washy and finally decided that I don't believe in a God(s) or an afterlife. If that makes me an atheist, that's fine, but it's not a set of beliefs that I choose in order to be an atheist.
Don't get me wrong, I still have morals and I do believe in right and wrong. But Right & Wrong DO NOT equal Good & Evil. I was raised as a christian, and I got a lot of good things from it, but it just always seemed like a lie/crutch/excuse to me. And not a single person I went to church with seemed sincere about it. They would do wrong ("sin") things with the thought that they would be forgiven for it by default. They used religion as an excuse to do wrong. I just can't buy into it.
Now, everybody take one:
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mp5racing21
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I was raised in an extremely strict Christian family. I still believe in God and everything associated with Him. But...
I don't see the people who don't believe in God as "evil". I live my life the way I was taught and I think to me its beneficial since I answer to a higher authority, therefore I watch my actions and try to do good. That equals out to one more law abiding citizen.
Now for the afterlife part. Whether there is an afterlife I cannot say. The Bible tells us that we must believe even if we can't substantiate. To me that means that I'll live my life abiding by the rules set forth before me. Not only will it benefit me here, but if there really is an afterlife, then I should be ok.
As far as those who don't believe in God or a higher being, to each his own. If there is an afterlife where you are measured by faith-based merit, then thats a big oops for them.
Its enough to watch your own actions, much less tell someone else that they're wrong. If someone is in question about faith, I think its fine to give them support and insight.
The only idea(s) that I find serious conflict with are reincarnation and Wicca. The idea that your soul goes up and down a social ladder based on experience or good/bad is an extreme swing towards fantasy. I've done lots of research in my quest to encompass all religions and ideas but those are the two that have serious faults in their structures.
I don't see the people who don't believe in God as "evil". I live my life the way I was taught and I think to me its beneficial since I answer to a higher authority, therefore I watch my actions and try to do good. That equals out to one more law abiding citizen.
Now for the afterlife part. Whether there is an afterlife I cannot say. The Bible tells us that we must believe even if we can't substantiate. To me that means that I'll live my life abiding by the rules set forth before me. Not only will it benefit me here, but if there really is an afterlife, then I should be ok.
As far as those who don't believe in God or a higher being, to each his own. If there is an afterlife where you are measured by faith-based merit, then thats a big oops for them.
Its enough to watch your own actions, much less tell someone else that they're wrong. If someone is in question about faith, I think its fine to give them support and insight.
The only idea(s) that I find serious conflict with are reincarnation and Wicca. The idea that your soul goes up and down a social ladder based on experience or good/bad is an extreme swing towards fantasy. I've done lots of research in my quest to encompass all religions and ideas but those are the two that have serious faults in their structures.
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religion n.
1.
...
4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion
.atheism
n.
-Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods.
-The doctrine that there is no God or gods. -Godlessness; immorality.
<!-- end ahd4 --><!-- begin wn --> <!-- google_ad_region_start=def --> atheism
n 1: the doctrine or belief that there is no God [syn: godlessness] [ant: theism] 2: a lack of belief in the existence of God or gods
Looks pretty clear cut to me.
1.
...
4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion
.atheism
n.
-Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods.
-The doctrine that there is no God or gods. -Godlessness; immorality.
<!-- end ahd4 --><!-- begin wn --> <!-- google_ad_region_start=def --> atheism
n 1: the doctrine or belief that there is no God [syn: godlessness] [ant: theism] 2: a lack of belief in the existence of God or gods
Looks pretty clear cut to me.
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Rickman said:
Well you chose not to believe in God... so you chose a set of beliefs... so therefore you chose to be an atheist... I'm not saying right or wrong.. I'm just pointing it out.
Using religion as a crutch as you said is wrong and that is why so many people have problem with religion... but again.. religion, faith, and God are 3 different things... if they really had faith and a devotion to God as it is taught (a basis of love) then it would be different.. but people like to not be like that, and people like to get out of their "mistakes" just goes back to how no one in this country likes to take responsibility.
Except it does matter because there were a million things that you didn't experience or do that you could've experienced while you could enjoy it. So if it's not true, you've wasted your life.TurfBurn said:
And also, if you don't believe, should you spend your whole life lying to your self and others that you do on the chance that Christians are right. Shouldn't you then practice all religions on the chance that they are the right ones?
I guess that's the problem I have with religion, how can you come to the conclusion that your crazy story, filled with magic and disbelief, is the true one, and all the other crazy stories are false?
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mp5racing21
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Umm...All of the Circuit and Supreme Court rulings that were meant to take faith-based articles/ideas out of public/government places are the result of atheists exercising their zealousness or devotion to their cause.
In fact it is rare to meet an atheist that will not vehemently deny the existence of a higher being if the topic is brought up.
The basic premise of Christianity or any other faith is that as long as you believe in a higher being and live life based on the proper morality, you will be ok. Religion is an invention of people, not God/a higer being.
Nobody says that you can't enjoy life. Its common sense that you steer away from the bad. Now if your definition of enjoying life is doing drugs, having sex with random individuals, then even someone who doesn't believe in a higher being will think there is something wrong with you.
This isn't meant as a "I'm right, you're wrong" post, but its hypocrital when people complain about someone forcing their faith on them, then the same people come out and degrade and insult others by saying their beliefs are crazy stories and fantasy.
Question, What million good experiences can you have than someone else that abides by their faith won't?
In fact it is rare to meet an atheist that will not vehemently deny the existence of a higher being if the topic is brought up.
The basic premise of Christianity or any other faith is that as long as you believe in a higher being and live life based on the proper morality, you will be ok. Religion is an invention of people, not God/a higer being.
Nobody says that you can't enjoy life. Its common sense that you steer away from the bad. Now if your definition of enjoying life is doing drugs, having sex with random individuals, then even someone who doesn't believe in a higher being will think there is something wrong with you.
This isn't meant as a "I'm right, you're wrong" post, but its hypocrital when people complain about someone forcing their faith on them, then the same people come out and degrade and insult others by saying their beliefs are crazy stories and fantasy.
Question, What million good experiences can you have than someone else that abides by their faith won't?
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pingdum said:
What millions of things can you not do? And how many of those millions of things that you "can't" do are things that are detrimental to yourself and others around you in the long run regardless of religious opinion?
No the point of the bet is that when you are "wishy washy" about things that given the choices you are better off pursuing in genuine the one with the most likely payout than taking the other route which has poorer payout... and as I said... there are lots of wholes in the argument and the other religions is one of the big ones.
The point also wasn't about which religion.. the point was about there being a supreme being that most religions agree to some extent is either going to be happy with you or not...
Still doesn't explain away the watchmaker analogy either....
But I'm guessing you guys are all far more intelligent and educated than this guy... so OBVIOUSLY you are right...
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=315976
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=315976
