Philosophizing on Mazda5 Driving and Refinement

MarkVII88

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2012 Mazda5 Sport AT
First of all, this is a subjective philosophical posting that came from my recent week-long vacation with a rental car on which we racked-up over 650 miles. Feel free to share your feedback based on your own experiences. Thanks.

I just got back from a week in Florida during which my wife and I drove a rented Chevy Captiva SUV (equivalent of Chevy Equinox). After driving the Captiva for over 650 miles, I feel compelled to share my thoughts about this car and how it compares to our pair of Mazda5's (a 2008 Sport and a 2012 Sport). I realize that this may not be an apples-to-apples comparison but read on and hopefully my thought process will make some sense to you.

We got a great weekly rate on a "small SUV" for our trip but did not specifically choose the Chevy Captiva. I always look forward to driving rental cars because it's a new experience and has always been a car I've never driven before. Our SUV was a FWD 2014 Captiva LTZ, the top of the line trim with about 11500 miles on the odometer. It came with heated leather seats, power moon roof, upgraded stereo, 235/55/18, and various other features I've never paid for on a car I've owned (like rain-sensing wipers). The car also had the 2.4L direct injection Ecotec 4-cyl with Hydramatic 6T40 6-speed auto (180hp, 172ft/lb). The MSRP on the LTZ starts at $29,495, over $10,000 more than what I paid for my 2012 Mazda5 Sport.

I was immediately struck by how unrefined the Ecotec engine sounded at startup, especially when cold. It sounded like a blender full of shrapnel. Might this be common to direct-injection engines? It smoothed-out some when warmed-up. I've never experienced anything like this in either of our Mazdas though, even in frozen Vermont when temps reach -15 degrees. My MZR 2.5L sounds velvety by comparison. I was also surprised by how horribly mated the 6-speed auto was to the Ecotec engine. There was never any power at any RPM unless you floored it and kicked it down at least 2 gear ratios. The final drive in the Captiva was so tall that at 75mph, it was only turning at 2250RPM. Absolutely gutless. The tall gearing didn't keep vibrations from entering the cabin though. No wheel balance or alignment issues but the NVH was such that when revving through the 3000-4000RPM range, there was a recurring buzzing noise emanating from a piece of passenger door trim. Not only that, but the rough plastic edges of the turn signal and wiper stalks actually hurt to touch. And the steering was comically heavy, numb and heavy.

For a car that supposedly costs nearly $30,000 I expected better, much better. For as unrefined as the Captiva is, I would not have been willing to pay even the $24,360 that the base LS model lists for. What I'm really getting at here is that I firmly believe, by this comparison, that the level of mechanical refinement and the overall driving experience we get with our much less expensive Mazda5's is superior in every way to some much more expensive vehicles. Not only that, but even the most expensive Mazda5 GT trim only costs about as much as the base LS Captiva trim and you get basically every option the loaded LTZ Captiva offers. Feel free to agree or disagree with me, but I had to get these thoughts out on this forum because I have never felt so glad to come home to my own car.
 
You couldn't buy the Captiva, even if you wanted to. It is purely a fleet car and not available for individual customers. GM just rebadged a Saturn Vue and made it exclusively for fleet purchasers (mostly rental companies) when Saturn was axed. Basically tried to earn back some of the development costs. Not that I would look at many GM vehicles as refined, but I think this one would be even less refined. Maybe slightly better than some of their rebadged Daewoo cars.
 
I've always frowned upon GM. Aside from cadillac and the new vette, they build garbage. I first fell for our mazda chassis when driving a rented gen 1 Mz3 from Ny to boston. At the time i was enamored with VW/Audi and was currently driving an 05 Audi A4 wagon. I was impressed by how Germanic the Mz3 felt. The steering response, tracking, refinement, & stability were all very Audi like.

I rented it again for drive from NY to VA with the entire fam (4) and all our junk. Same experience. Smooth riding and felt very buttoned down. There was enormous snow storm that hit when we drove back and little 3 really held its own. It took two more frustrating VW cars to convince me it was time to go for jap reliability.i first tried the MS6 but it was mazda's first real stab at that engine and it showed in lack of refinement and unreliability. i wanted to keep what the germans do so well, a sporty yet refined driving experience, but add reliabilty. I recalled my experience with the two rentals and, knowing it was the same platform, test drove the Mz5. She purred like a kitten and drove like a tiger. I was hooked. Even after 52k miles she still drives and runs very well. I plan to drive my 5 till the wheels fall off...and then buy new wheels and drive some more :)
 
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I've always frowned upon GM. Aside from cadillac and the new vette, they build garbage. :)

From working on GM cars in the 80's and 90's I have faithfully followed this mantra also. They have made nothing but s***. Until recently.

I'll give them some credit. Powertrains were usually reliable and easy to work on. But body fit and finish, accessories, trim, etc... Utter garbage. No reason a six month old car should have a dash buckle, door handles falling off or other bits and pieces withering away. But I think they've turned it around. Enough so that the wife and I also bought a Chevy Sonic sedan in late 2012. It's been a great car and surprised me in many ways. Things I really like about the car.

1) Infotainment system. Sound quality for a stock system is excellent. Far better than even the Bose setup we had on our 2010 Mazda3.

2) Performance is great. It has the turbo 1.4 and I've put on a tune from Trifecta. Thing runs like a raped ape. 6 speed auto shifts fast and firm.

3) Fuel economy has been awesome. Even with the performance tune we never see anything below 28.5 in city driving. Got 43.2 on the way back from the NC outer banks over the holidays loaded up with the kids and luggage.

4) Trunk is effing huge for a little car. I think on a scale of 1 to 10 dead hooker capacity, I would give it a 7.0. To back it up I took actual measurements. I have the cargo cover in my 5. The space underneath the cargo cover in my 5 with the third row down is actually less than the Sonic Sedan. Sonic trunk is about 2" deeper, 1.5" wider and about 3 inches taller.

5) Maintenance costs have been about 1/2 of what they have been with any Mazda I've owned. (Two model 3's, three model 5's, a Protege 5, Protege and a 626)

6) It's just comfortable. Seats are good, driving position is good, pedal position is good. I enjoy driving it enough that when the wife is home I usually take it to the store or errands instead of my 5.
 
I've got the Saturn Vue (2005) and Mazda 5 (2012)
I'd say between the two Mazda had a bit louder engine at ide, VUE is soooo smooth at idle I can't only tell it is on by the tachometer.
Interior VUE is more plush, mostly soft touch but ugly, Mazda is all hard plastic but looks better.
Driving Mazda feel more connected with the road, more dynamic, more precise.
VUE is more relaxing, more floaty.
Gas mileage is about the same between the two.
VUE can carry more if you put 4 people and one Baby, Mazda can carry more people without cargo.
I can't speak for the reliability, both have been fantastic.
 
New GM is better but still falls short. If the Captiva is based in the Cruize, it not 'that' terrible. I do agree 1000% about the 6sp auto. Needs more polishing.


Didn't the VUE use a Honda sourced motor??
 
New GM is better but still falls short. If the Captiva is based in the Cruize, it not 'that' terrible. I do agree 1000% about the 6sp auto. Needs more polishing.


Didn't the VUE use a Honda sourced motor??

VUE used to have 3.5L honda motors/tranny, mine is a 2.2 echotech + manual, same as cavalier, too small for the car size really.
Captiva is based on some European Opel Antara, small but heavy one at 4400 pounds.
Not a very efficient design for the size.
 
I was immediately struck by how unrefined the Ecotec engine sounded at startup, especially when cold. It sounded like a blender full of shrapnel. Might this be common to direct-injection engines? It smoothed-out some when warmed-up. I've never experienced anything like this in either of our Mazdas though, even in frozen Vermont when temps reach -15 degrees. My MZR 2.5L sounds velvety by comparison.

I have owned 2 cars now with petrol (gas) Direct Injection.

The first was a 2008 BMW 318i Touring and the 2nd, my current car, a Mazda 5 with the 2.0 DISI engine with iStop.

The First time I fired up the BMW it sounded like a diesel; clattery injectors etc. the Mazda on the other hand, just sounds very, very sweet - no signs at all of it being a Direct Injection.

So I am at a loss to explain why some manufactures seem to be able to do a direct injection engine without the clatter, whereas others can't. Must be down to the injectors themselves, as it can't be sound proofing because the difference is night and day even with the bonnet (hood) up.
 
The Captiva comes from Europe - its the Chevy version of the Opel/Vauxhall Antara - very stripped down though, I am sure. The other cars based on this are the last gen VUE and the 2nd gen SRX. The Equinox is not related, except in that the 2.4 is a North American engine, not what they put in the Antara in Europe.
That said, I would have expected better from an Opel platform, even if it IS a good 8 years old now. Reviews of diesel Antaras were more positive than negative, so what gives? Chevy got ahold of it? After seeing the disaster the HHR was (rear drums on the SS model??) I am not too surprised by anything they screw up anymore.
 
They forgot to mention that you have to have the heart of an angel to wrench on one to actually make it to 100k miles.

But i still love'em and always will. I WILL buy another mk iv before i die. And that new 2015 Golf R gives me wood
 
4) Trunk is effing huge for a little car. I think on a scale of 1 to 10 dead hooker capacity, I would give it a 7.0. To back it up I took actual measurements. I have the cargo cover in my 5. The space underneath the cargo cover in my 5 with the third row down is actually less than the Sonic Sedan. Sonic trunk is about 2" deeper, 1.5" wider and about 3 inches taller.

i laughed so hard reading this at work, my supervisor came by to see if i wasn't laughing at a customer on the line...thanks rodslinger :)
 
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