P5 - Steering Response question

[6speed]

Again, thanks, a good reply.

I do have a few suspicions that the car was 'modded' by the previous owner, though I find it unlikely since it was a leased vehicle (as per CarFax). A few things on the interior don't quite seem stock, plus there is a strut bar for the front towers, which I didn't believe they normally had one.

Actually, thinking about it, might it be an issue created by the strut bar? Excessive pre-loading? I read somewhere that strut bars really don't affect the P5 that much at all, so it might not be, but if the strut bar is pre-loaded to an extreme, then it might explain it.

If you all think that the strut bar might be the issue, then I will pull it off and see how the car reacts, a possible quick fix.

 

[Brian MP5T]

The P5 Rocks. Is should still be made...

 

[xelderx]

Again, thanks, a good reply.

I do have a few suspicions that the car was 'modded' by the previous owner, though I find it unlikely since it was a leased vehicle (as per CarFax). A few things on the interior don't quite seem stock, plus there is a strut bar for the front towers, which I didn't believe they normally had one.

Actually, thinking about it, might it be an issue created by the strut bar? Excessive pre-loading? I read somewhere that strut bars really don't affect the P5 that much at all, so it might not be, but if the strut bar is pre-loaded to an extreme, then it might explain it.

If you all think that the strut bar might be the issue, then I will pull it off and see how the car reacts, a possible quick fix.

The Pro5 did come with a front strut bar. The previous owner may have replaced it with an aftermarket one, but I doubt they would have left it on there so I'm betting you have the stock bar. Is it red and bolts with two bolts on each side? That shouldn't be the problem.

 

[6speed]

Yeah, it is red with black C shaped brackets, so that probably isn't the issue then.

Ok, thanks.

I will post up here if I get a exact cause of the problem.

 

[SpeedyPR5]

I recently bought my wife a P5, and due to other issues, have been driving it alot. In general, I love the car, especially the way it handles at low to mid speeds, the balance of the car, and the higher speed stability.

One issue I have been finding though seems to be the steering response, or rather the power steering and the level of feedback it suppresses from the road.

I have found that the higher the speeds, the more the feedback from the road moves the steering wheel and thus determines the line the car takes across the road, and sometimes drastically enough that I have had to cut back on speed by 10-20mph. Of course, with the highly sensitive brand-new brakes, that is risky as well, since they grab the wheels too hard for cornering, and increase the problem. I have tapped the brakes in a couple instances, (and i mean 'tapped', just a light touch) and have had the steering wheel jerk to one side, usually the inside of the turn.

Do anyone else have this problem? And if so, is there a common solution or fix? A higher power-assist level should dampen the effect, but not sure if this is the actual problem, or if it would be the correct solution.

One note that might matter, this is the first car I have ever driven with "Speed Sensitive Steering", and if this is the direct side-effect, then ... well, I don't like it.

It doesn't sound like there's anything wrong to me. You exactly described variable assist steering - low speed gives more assist, which drops off as you get going for better wheel feel and steering response. However, if the car pulls consistently to one side, that could be uneven tire wear or bad alignment. If the car pulls consistently to one side under braking, that could be one brake caliper clamping on the rotor while the other one is lazy. But it doesn't sound like that's the problem you're having.

If the tires turn sharply under heavy braking, then at that point you're probably already in an understeer (push) condition and the car isn't turning properly anyway. My Pro5 doesn't seem especially neutral, it definitely pushes - like most passenger cars suspensions are tuned to do. When the wheels are slipping in a push, it's a lot easier to turn the wheel freely, and that might account for the increased deflection. The proper response, I think you've done properly, is to slow down some, or reduce braking to transfer some weight off the slipping tires.

As for the brakes, after driving my Pro5 consistently I learned how to brake smoothly... it is definitely the touchiest brake I've ever driven. It's probably worse when the pads are new. You can probably get that adjusted so there's a little more dead space?

Though, why your Pro5 slips in the first place, assuming you're not going too fast or hit the brakes too hard which transfers too much weight forward and thus slips the tires, is still a mystery. It could be tires themselves. What brand and model are they? Good tread?

Anyway, hope this helps.

--AJ

 

[SpeedyPR5]

Again, thanks, a good reply.

I do have a few suspicions that the car was 'modded' by the previous owner, though I find it unlikely since it was a leased vehicle (as per CarFax). A few things on the interior don't quite seem stock, plus there is a strut bar for the front towers, which I didn't believe they normally had one.

Actually, thinking about it, might it be an issue created by the strut bar? Excessive pre-loading? I read somewhere that strut bars really don't affect the P5 that much at all, so it might not be, but if the strut bar is pre-loaded to an extreme, then it might explain it.

If you all think that the strut bar might be the issue, then I will pull it off and see how the car reacts, a possible quick fix.

The front brace between the suspension mount points is stock. I think that's what you're referring to. That doesn't preload the suspension, in fact it's not a suspension piece. It's there to give the chassis more rigidity. That is, it doesn't let the chassis flex or twist under extreme cornering, and it's placed between the front strut points because that's where all the forces from the suspension are loaded onto the chassis.

Hope this helps,

--AJ

 

[Mazda P5 driver]

sorry man..no complaints here. You have different tires than stock? I noticed witht he stock tires there came some sensitivity due to stiff sidewalls. Do you have your tire pressure above 36 or so? BTW, grooves int he road will pull on a car.

I run Proxes 4's in stock size and have zero issues. They track well and don't seem to pull on the car at all.

 

[SkinnyJoint]

sounds to me like maybe a caliper is bad or somthing if your talking about braking and it pulls other than that alignment i guess ill just jump on the bandwagon...
my friends fox body does this too but its not during breaking and man we went to new orleans 2 weeks ago that s*** was scary i was driving it back and it would crazy pull

 

[6speed]

Well, I think it is a bad shock or strut or other suspension part in the front right corner.

I pulled a hard U-Turn today (I think the first yet with this car), and the front right seemed like it collapsed under the load, farther than I have ever seen it, and it unloaded the front left enough that the front left locked up and the car just plowed forward, barely turning. Never had a result that bad when doing U-Turns in any of my other cars.

 

[SpeedyPR5]

Well, I think it is a bad shock or strut or other suspension part in the front right corner.

I pulled a hard U-Turn today (I think the first yet with this car), and the front right seemed like it collapsed under the load, farther than I have ever seen it, and it unloaded the front left enough that the front left locked up and the car just plowed forward, barely turning. Never had a result that bad when doing U-Turns in any of my other cars.

Yeah that's not right, your car should not be doing that.

 

[ZeroAccess]

When you apply pressure to the shocks how do they respond?
(Stop the car get out and physically push down) do they bounce right back up or stick a little bit? Does one side seem lazier than the other?


Also, How do the rotors look? any odd wearing?
Do you hear any clicking or any noises coming from that area?
Make sure to get an alignment done, the worst that can happen is your out 40-50 dollars and your tires last a little longer.

What type of tires are on the vehicle? and are all 4 tires the same?
What does the wear look like on the tires?

When turning in a sharp circle do you hear the power sterring pump and do you feel the car wanting to turn harder or not? (hope you understand what I mean there)

 

[TexP5]

Yes, the steering pulls left and right, depending on the lay of the road, but I know for certain it is not an alignment issue. Straight line driving is right-on. The steering wheel pulls (yanks is a more accurate term) to the inside of the turn when I have to start braking due to a factor that was not apparent or in existance when I entered the turn.

Everything you're describing can be attributed to an alignment problem. And just because straight line tracking remains true doesn't mean your wheels are properly aligned. I believe you can have toe-in problems and still have the car track in a straight line, it will just feel wrong when you're applying sterring input as you are describing.

Also, I'm trying to imagine a situation where my gut instinct is to reach for the emergency brake?!? Not to mention "using it regularly" I mean if you're in situations where you are frequently requiring the E brake, either something's seriously wrong with the car or something's seriously wrong with how close you're following other cars etc. Not flaming you, but get real...if you often need the e-brake, OBVIOUSLY something ain't right ya know??? (uhm)

 

[6speed]

Actually, I am in the habit of using it from my Corolla. I upgraded the front brakes, and once I did that, the fronts were grabbing so hard that I would frequently use the ebrake to get more rear braking in. Granted, I rarely actually needed it, but with the constant use, in the situation in which I REALLY needed to stop faster, that instinctive reaction could stop the car on a dime (well almost). It is alot like practicing sliding in the snow. Once you know how to do it, how to control it, and how to recover from it, and if you keep doing it, then when you lose traction unintentionally, snow, rain, or even dry pavement, your instincts to correct the problem will be much more acurate and controlled. Same thing. I was training my instincts to use every available bit of braking power in an emergency situation... something which has saved me from several wrecks.

Once I got the P5, I was quite surprised with the ebrake, being the first car with rear disc brakes I had driven, that the ebrake was actually a real emergency brake. It COULD in fact slow the car dramatically by itself, even at higher speeds.

I also tend to use the ebrake, not when I am following too closely, but when other people are following ME too closely. I use the ebrake slightly when I just need a faint dip in speed, when using the pedal brake would light my brake lights and possibly cause the driver behind me to panic and lock-up.

And I also use the ebrake for speed-traps, since it keeps the front end from diving down (less of a problem in the P5 than the corolla).

But back to the first point, I have a free inspection coming up from the dealer, and I will have them check it all out.

 

[6speed]

Figured out the problem... and it WAS an issue, though not mechanical.

I had the dealer look everything over, describing the problem and such, and it was determined that I had a defective right front tire that had a very slow leak. My oil changes are frequent enough that the tire pressure never got noticably low, but near the end of the 3K miles, it was down about 9 PSI, and when under heavier loads, such as the high speed curves mentioned above, the tire would flatten out even more and grip the road more than normal, creatign the problem.

The dealer replaced the tire free of charge, and while the steering is still quite responsive, it is no longer dangerously so.

I was kinda surprised at this answer, since I didn't think it would end up making THAT much of a difference, but the fix seems to have worked...

 

[Mike R]

Kinda funny that no one suggested to check the tires-including me. That is always the first thing to check with issues like that....

 

[Brian MP5T]

Bump!

 

[toucci]

9 psi? you could join the zoom-zoom-boom club without even going turbo!

 

[Brian MP5T]

The Power Steering BOOM CLUB...