A
AGR
Listen; Buy a 2003 Black Mica MAZDASPEED. You will not go wrong.
Or; I will kick your ass ..........(rofl) (rofl)
Or; I will kick your ass ..........(rofl) (rofl)
Okay guys, I need some help staying focused.
- Thread starter Slipstream
- Start date
Slipstream
Member
1st MP3 in NH said:
Yeah, sorry. MKIV's are the current body style for the Jetta/Golf/GTI, with the 1.8T and 24v VR6. They've been the most trouble-prone of the 4 models.
A
AGR
No,,,,,We're talking MAZDASPEED. Are you listening?
slipstream:
i'm actually going through the same things as you; trying to figure out weather i'd rather have a gti or the msp. my research has led me to the following.
gti w/ sunroof and monsoon stereo is about the same price as a msp, but can be had cheaper since dealers seem more willing to haggle on price considering limited production of the msp. msp also has no sunroof, but the stereo is better.
when it comes to problems, gti seems to beat out the msp. both have good reliability, but would you rather deal with a window regulator and MAYBE a coil pack failing, or having your rear suspension bushings replace multiple times, coolant leaks, random stalls, etc. on the msp(just stating most comon probs I'VE read about so far.)
you can haul tons of stuff around in the gti.
ergonomics and interior quality. they both are good, but the gti seems to be more refined. more intuitive controls etc, cool gauges, high quality plastics.
msp is one of the best handling cars you can buy right now, while without suspension upgrades the gti is a bit mushy. if you're an autocrosser, this would be a HUGE deciding factor.
gti can easily achieve more power with chips and whatnot. gti also has a HUGE aftermarket base and the VAG parts bin is full of compatible goodies.
msp is more unique, but then again i very rarely see MKIV gtis on the road.
msp has four doors, gti has two. if you haul people around alot, it's a pain getting in and out of a coupe all the time.
they both look great.
although the msp is going to attract more attention. especially yellow and orange.
personally i'm leaning towards the gti a little more. it has a good compromise between fun and utility, while the msp is way on the fun side. i drive a lot every day, so i like all the creature comforts the gti offers. i don't auto-x (yet), but i know one of the first things i'd do to a gti would be a bilstein pss-9 coilover setup which would allow adjustablilty so if i do go to the track i'll be fine, but it's also comfortable for daily driving. i also have to carry a bunch of junk around now and then, and you just cant do that with the msp. the fact that for $500 you can have a new chip is also VERY inticing.
i'm actually going through the same things as you; trying to figure out weather i'd rather have a gti or the msp. my research has led me to the following.
gti w/ sunroof and monsoon stereo is about the same price as a msp, but can be had cheaper since dealers seem more willing to haggle on price considering limited production of the msp. msp also has no sunroof, but the stereo is better.
when it comes to problems, gti seems to beat out the msp. both have good reliability, but would you rather deal with a window regulator and MAYBE a coil pack failing, or having your rear suspension bushings replace multiple times, coolant leaks, random stalls, etc. on the msp(just stating most comon probs I'VE read about so far.)
you can haul tons of stuff around in the gti.
ergonomics and interior quality. they both are good, but the gti seems to be more refined. more intuitive controls etc, cool gauges, high quality plastics.
msp is one of the best handling cars you can buy right now, while without suspension upgrades the gti is a bit mushy. if you're an autocrosser, this would be a HUGE deciding factor.
gti can easily achieve more power with chips and whatnot. gti also has a HUGE aftermarket base and the VAG parts bin is full of compatible goodies.
msp is more unique, but then again i very rarely see MKIV gtis on the road.
msp has four doors, gti has two. if you haul people around alot, it's a pain getting in and out of a coupe all the time.
they both look great.
although the msp is going to attract more attention. especially yellow and orange.personally i'm leaning towards the gti a little more. it has a good compromise between fun and utility, while the msp is way on the fun side. i drive a lot every day, so i like all the creature comforts the gti offers. i don't auto-x (yet), but i know one of the first things i'd do to a gti would be a bilstein pss-9 coilover setup which would allow adjustablilty so if i do go to the track i'll be fine, but it's also comfortable for daily driving. i also have to carry a bunch of junk around now and then, and you just cant do that with the msp. the fact that for $500 you can have a new chip is also VERY inticing.
Slipstream
Member
aychseven: Tons of excellent points.
As far as my own preferences go, I'd probably skip the luxury package. I don't care about the sunroof (one more mechanical part to fail) and I hear the Monsoon system is trouble-prone. That would save me an additional $1100 or so right off the bat. The GTI is definately a cheaper buy right now.
As far as the problems you mentioned for the GTI, both are supposedly fixed (metal clips and Bosch coilpacks). Other than rattles and the occasional fluke, the 2003s SEEM to be in much better shape. But again, no way to tell so early in the game.
Cargo is definately a HUGE advantage for the GTI. My Cougar can carry an absurd amount of stuff with the seats flipped down, and it's a feature I've grown to love about it. I'd have never survived school without it. My fiancee has a Wrangler, so one of us needs to get a car with decent cargo capacity. Whether or not the MSP has that capacity, I don't know.
I am not yet an autocrosser, but want to get into it once I get a capable car (mine is not). I too would go for a suspension kit on the GTI, but I don't know if such a thing can be done while still retaining the world famous VW ride quality at a decent price. If so, I might easily be swayed.
As far as my own preferences go, I'd probably skip the luxury package. I don't care about the sunroof (one more mechanical part to fail) and I hear the Monsoon system is trouble-prone. That would save me an additional $1100 or so right off the bat. The GTI is definately a cheaper buy right now.
As far as the problems you mentioned for the GTI, both are supposedly fixed (metal clips and Bosch coilpacks). Other than rattles and the occasional fluke, the 2003s SEEM to be in much better shape. But again, no way to tell so early in the game.
Cargo is definately a HUGE advantage for the GTI. My Cougar can carry an absurd amount of stuff with the seats flipped down, and it's a feature I've grown to love about it. I'd have never survived school without it. My fiancee has a Wrangler, so one of us needs to get a car with decent cargo capacity. Whether or not the MSP has that capacity, I don't know.
I am not yet an autocrosser, but want to get into it once I get a capable car (mine is not). I too would go for a suspension kit on the GTI, but I don't know if such a thing can be done while still retaining the world famous VW ride quality at a decent price. If so, I might easily be swayed.
TurboProtege
Member
Slip, concerning the AutoX'in in the future, you could do a 337/20AE suspension upgrade then the thing will handle like a dream. I've been to car shows where nearly STOCK 337's have one thier class over extremely modified imports. Personal preference, but a GTI with 17's and no other options is $20,300, taken to a good dealer, you can walk out of the showroom with that car in the 18k range.... and with the left over 2k, droooolll....
Eurosport Cool Flo Air intake 8 HP $220.00
Split Second Boost Cont. 35 HP $270.00
Techtronics Exhaust (1.8T) 20 HP $475.00
Turbo XS Blowoff Valve N/A $200.00
________________________
Total: 243 HP $1165.00
Thats like 800 bucks left over for a stereo too
Eurosport Cool Flo Air intake 8 HP $220.00
Split Second Boost Cont. 35 HP $270.00
Techtronics Exhaust (1.8T) 20 HP $475.00
Turbo XS Blowoff Valve N/A $200.00
________________________
Total: 243 HP $1165.00
Thats like 800 bucks left over for a stereo too
Slipstream
Member
What about the suspension?
1st MP3 in NH said:
The SRT-4 handles really well and all of you under estimate it. True, the MazdaSpeed handles better, but its not a huge difference.
From Sport Compact Car October 2002
Handling:
Lateral grip (200ft skidpad) - .88g
Slalom (700ft, six cone) - 72mph
Braking
60-0 stopping distance - 123ft.
From Sport Compact Car December 2002
Handling
Lateral grip (200ft skidpad) - .85g
Slalom (700ft, six cone) - 69.0mph
Braking
60-0 stopping distance - 119ft.
Slipstream said:What about the suspension?
The 20th Anniversary GTi has the same suspension has the 337, if I'm not mistaking. And they are priced just over 20K. Plus they come in hot colors like the MSP; Yellow, blue, and black.
For the Safety Issue...
Protege:
http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/99005.htm
GTI/Golf
http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/99001.htm
Oh yea...not having a rear-independant suspension isn't THAT big of a deal. if that were the case...then every car should be outhandling the Spec V...but it isn't...since Spec V's can easily keep up with ITRs in Autox and on twisty roads stock for stock.
But from my experience..I wouldn't trust my life to a protege in an accident. A friend of mine was killed in his protege, going about 80KM/h head on, seatbelts, but the frame just collapsed on him and killed him.
A sentra has better crash reports, then with the new added side impact air bags it's even better...another friend took a lamp post at 100KM/h head on, walked out without a scratch, just a minor burn from the airbags deploying (which all 4 of them did).
From my experience the protege is quite a dangerous car to be in.
Also from what I've heard the GTi is like built like a tank heh...
But unless you are planning to crash your car, that shouldn't be of any concern, although accidents do happen.
It all depends, the GTi with a good suspension kit can be made to handle like a dream (but that's the same with any car). GTi can make power quick and easily. And it's internals are very strong. It's also a much more refined car, and has a lot of luxury elements to it. The one thing I HATE is the drive-by-throttle lag, I know it's expected that there should be some...but my spec v has none, and the lag on the GTi isn't bad...but it annoys me.
The MSP is already pretty modded out of the box, it's got a decent sound system, supposedly a super sensitive alarm. It has awsome handling, and it's limited edition. But...you lose out on cruise control, and sunroof. Modding is pretty limited too. The handling seems to be better than most of the aftermarket can produce for the protege...but I'm sure simple things like, stiffer springs can yet improve the handling of the car, I'm pretty sure full coilvers would be even better. Boosting...it's kept mild for a reason...You can't really boost the crap outta the MSP without changing the internals, about after 10 psi, that's what you wanna do if you don't want a blown engine. But it's got more room, and yea...4 doors.
It all depends what you want. If you're looking to mod...the protege isn't the huge place to be since the aftermarket is really small...the GTi's is pretty large, so getting really good parts for the car, that have been tested over and over again are easy.
But if you REALLY wanted to mod hardcore on a FWD platform...you should get a used EG/EK civic...for the price of a MSP/GTi you could mod the hell out of a EG/EK civic (yea a civic...but it's got like the most aftermarket out of any car I know)
But why are you limiting your self to only these two cars? There are plenty of other good cars out there for the same price. Just look around, decide what you want, do your own personal research, other people's opinions are good...but there is no opinion that isn't biased...you should come up to your own conclusions
Protege:
http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/99005.htm
GTI/Golf
http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/99001.htm
Oh yea...not having a rear-independant suspension isn't THAT big of a deal. if that were the case...then every car should be outhandling the Spec V...but it isn't...since Spec V's can easily keep up with ITRs in Autox and on twisty roads stock for stock.
But from my experience..I wouldn't trust my life to a protege in an accident. A friend of mine was killed in his protege, going about 80KM/h head on, seatbelts, but the frame just collapsed on him and killed him.
A sentra has better crash reports, then with the new added side impact air bags it's even better...another friend took a lamp post at 100KM/h head on, walked out without a scratch, just a minor burn from the airbags deploying (which all 4 of them did).
From my experience the protege is quite a dangerous car to be in.
Also from what I've heard the GTi is like built like a tank heh...
But unless you are planning to crash your car, that shouldn't be of any concern, although accidents do happen.
It all depends, the GTi with a good suspension kit can be made to handle like a dream (but that's the same with any car). GTi can make power quick and easily. And it's internals are very strong. It's also a much more refined car, and has a lot of luxury elements to it. The one thing I HATE is the drive-by-throttle lag, I know it's expected that there should be some...but my spec v has none, and the lag on the GTi isn't bad...but it annoys me.
The MSP is already pretty modded out of the box, it's got a decent sound system, supposedly a super sensitive alarm. It has awsome handling, and it's limited edition. But...you lose out on cruise control, and sunroof. Modding is pretty limited too. The handling seems to be better than most of the aftermarket can produce for the protege...but I'm sure simple things like, stiffer springs can yet improve the handling of the car, I'm pretty sure full coilvers would be even better. Boosting...it's kept mild for a reason...You can't really boost the crap outta the MSP without changing the internals, about after 10 psi, that's what you wanna do if you don't want a blown engine. But it's got more room, and yea...4 doors.
It all depends what you want. If you're looking to mod...the protege isn't the huge place to be since the aftermarket is really small...the GTi's is pretty large, so getting really good parts for the car, that have been tested over and over again are easy.
But if you REALLY wanted to mod hardcore on a FWD platform...you should get a used EG/EK civic...for the price of a MSP/GTi you could mod the hell out of a EG/EK civic (yea a civic...but it's got like the most aftermarket out of any car I know
)But why are you limiting your self to only these two cars? There are plenty of other good cars out there for the same price. Just look around, decide what you want, do your own personal research, other people's opinions are good...but there is no opinion that isn't biased...you should come up to your own conclusions
um.. hello, why even compare the msp to the gti there two totally different setups on cars, the gti is more for a flat our RUN draglistic. while the msp is more for autocross and rally type things. what the cars are ment for to two totally different things to sit here and try to justify one over the other is crazy its like deciding am i gonna eat chickin or steak for dinner.
Slipstream
Member
Daemos said:But why are you limiting your self to only these two cars? There are plenty of other good cars out there for the same price. Just look around, decide what you want, do your own personal research, other people's opinions are good...but there is no opinion that isn't biased...you should come up to your own conclusions
A million good points, but I figured I'd address this one since it was a question.
It's not that I'm limiting myself to these two cars, but it's what I've whittled down the vast array of cars available to as being my favorites. I want to go new, so that definately narrows the field by quite a bit. And I agree on no unbiased opinions, but I've tried to take a sample of all different types of opinions to see what people in general have to say. It's also refreshing to get different points of view that I don't necessarily have. funnylittlman
Member
- :
- Protege
Slipstream said:
That's why I bought my MSP
It's a fast in line dragger, but it won't hold a penny to the Speed in the turns.The neon pulls like .84-.85g on the skid pad and has an open end differential.....
I just love my speed... and as AGR#7 says
I LOVE MY MAZDASPEED
