NY Times review of Mazda5

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http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/25/automobiles/autoreviews/25mazda5.html

A Euro-Style David vs. Minivan Goliaths
By LAWRENCE ULRICH
SOME cars just make sense. But that doesnt mean Americans will like them.

For instance, Americans have largely dismissed the station wagon, preferring taller-riding crossovers by as much as 10 to 1. But the compact van known in much of the world as an M.P.V. for multipurpose vehicle cant even claim the Brady-Bunch nostalgia of the station wagon.

In Europe, where gasoline averages about $7 a gallon, M.P.V.s like the Renault Scnic, the Opel Zafira from General Motors and the Ford Focus C-Max are the ubiquitous answer to this basic question: How can I afford to move my family around without drilling for oil in my backyard?

But here, measured against hulking minivans, the rare M.P.V.s have been seen as scrawny and suspiciously euro the way soccer players are dismissed by rabid N.F.L. fans.

If thats not challenge enough, the Mazda 5 the only pure M.P.V. (with sliding doors) on the market is still a minivan, writ small but no less boxy. Social monitors in the neighborhood might view the Mazda as carrying all the minivans suburban-square baggage, while simultaneously announcing that you couldnt afford a real one.

But that would be unfair. First, there are signs that the big-crushes-all mentality, once as secure as an armored Hummer, is just one gas-price spike away from being shattered forever. Second, all it takes is a whip around the neighborhood to make you realize that Mazdas mouse is sportier than its elephantine rivals.

There is good reason for this: at barely 15 feet long, with an unloaded weight of less than 3,500 pounds, the Mazda is nearly two feet shorter and a half-ton lighter than a Honda Odyssey.

And the Mazda is just a smart family car, because it combines the good parts of a minivan three rows of seats, easy entering and exiting, unimpeded views with the exterior footprint, maneuverability and price of a compact. For all the cavernous virtues of an Odyssey or a Toyota Sienna, those minivans can top $40,000, on par with luxury sedans.

The Mazda starts at less than half that: $19,260 with a 5-speed manual transmission. The midlevel Touring version that I tested, with an automatic transmission, goes out the door for $22,235. The priciest Grand Touring model starts at $23,755 and tops $27,000 when equipped with options like a navigation system and DVD player.

One cannot help but admire a machine that combines sporty and utilitarian virtues at such a reasonable price. Yet theres no denying that this cute vanlet is a niche vehicle that faces stiff competition, not just from larger vans, but from wagons and from compact crossovers like the Honda CR-V or Toyota RAV4. (The Mazdas most direct rival is the Kia Rondo, which has conventional hinged rear doors.)

The 5 may undercut the big minivans by $10,000 or more, but it isnt as plush, powerful or quiet. And while the Mazda can haul six people to the movies, you can forget packing that sextet for a trip to the Grand Canyon unless you strap a few children to the roof.

The Mazdas interior is straightforward and well finished. Theres a whiff of economy car in the plastics and fabrics, offset by nicer touches like sporty gauges and a leather-wrapped automatic shifter that protrudes from the dashboard.

Fold the third row flat, and theres a generous 44.4 cubic feet of cargo space. With the second row down, the space expands to nearly 90 cubic feet. Both figures trump any compact crossover. But if six people are spread across the Mazdas seats, theres only 11.7 cubic feet of storage behind the third row. That space is on par with the three-row RAV4. Yet here, the tale of the tape doesnt lie: if you are putting bodies in every seat, the Odyssey, Dodge Grand Caravan and other likesize vans can pack roughly three times as much cargo behind the rearmost row.

That is one reason why Mazda executives see the 5 as ideally suited to families with one or two children.

The 5s sliding doors are cleverly engineered. Though they are not power-operated, they open and close so weightlessly that a small child can operate them, yet they dont require the heavy (and trouble-prone) electric motors of larger minivans.

Those doors create a huge, nearly 28-inch-wide entryway: If you pivot the second-row seats forward in a smooth one-touch operation, the Mazda offers access to the third row that no hinged-door model can touch.

When opened, those manual doors also hug the vehicles sides more than the electric portals of other minivans. Throw in a body thats eight inches narrower than the Odysseys, and the Mazda is especially easy to load or off-load in tight parking slots or garages. At the rear, the liftgate opens just high enough for a six-footer to stow gear without having to duck below it.

To get everyone to fit, the Mazda takes a socialist approach to resource-sharing. The front seats are normal, except for their captains-chair folding armrests (which are so stubby only a T-Rex might find them useful). But the second- and third-row seats are subtly shrunken to maximize the space and allow all that magical flat-folding.

When I sat in the second row, the top of the seatback ended at my shoulder blades. And in the third row, taller riders need to slide the headrest up some 10 inches to get support for their heads.

The second row has three inches less legroom than the CR-V or RAV4, though you can slide the seat back nearly four inches to expand the space. A theater-seating layout, with each row positioned slightly higher than the one ahead, helps to stave off claustrophobia. Thats combined with the Mazdas fantastic outward views, aided by pleasingly low window sills and enormous vistas of glass.

Some car critics have complained that the Mazdas third row is strictly for children, and it is true that knee space and foot room are tight back there. But when I was forced into the way-back space, with my 3-year-old daughter sitting ahead of me (thrilled at seeing Dad relegated to the cheap seats), I found that a lone adult rider can fully stretch his legs down the center aisle, making the journey surprisingly comfortable.

Motivation comes from a 2.3-liter 4-cylinder with 153 horsepower and 148 pound-feet of torque. Even without a load, the 5 is on the slow side, running from 0 to 60 miles per hour in 9.7 seconds. With passengers aboard while climbing steep foothills north of New York City, the Mazda sweated a bit to make speed. While the Mazda engine is one of the smoother 4-bangers around, no magic of balance shafts or engine mounts can make it as quiet and vibration-free as a 6- or 8-cylinder. Still, the Mazda will still cruise effortlessly at 80 m.p.h.

And if theres not much of Mazdas signature zoom zoom in the acceleration, theres plenty elsewhere. Despite noticeable body roll on turns, the steering and suspension are joyfully sharp, sensitive and fun you just have to work at it. Once I pledged to keep that little motor on full boil, working the shifters manual function like mad, the 5 responded in kind. Its hard to say how many family owners want to carve turns in a minivan, but with the 5 it can be done. And for 2010, the 5 gets electronic stability control a valuable safety feature as standard equipment.

Among vans, the fuel economy battle goes to the Mazda, with the 5 rated at 21 m.p.g. in town, and 27 on the highway (22/28 with the 5-speed manual), compared with 17/25 for an Odyssey (with an engine that shuts down cylinders at cruising speed).

Shoppers should know that Mazda intends to replace the 5 with a redesigned version next year. But as a second heads-up, that new version will also add the grinning-idiot front fascia that currently disfigures the otherwise brilliant Mazda 3 compact car.

With carmakers working to bolster their fleetwide fuel economy, the Mazda will soon have some serious competition. Future rivals include the seven-passenger Ford C-Max, which shares its platform with the Mazda and will reach showrooms in late 2011. Chevrolet will offer its Orlando that year; that seven-passenger M.P.V. may eventually adopt the Volts plug-in hybrid technology.

Its another sign that the world is shrinking and that car styles long popular in Europe including these compact people-movers may establish themselves here.

At this rate, those N.F.L. fans will start rooting for Real Madrid and noshing on brie and quiche.



INSIDE TRACK: Little big van.
 
LOL, "socialist approach"

I'm surprised at the decent amount of reviews that the Mazda5 still gets in the US, especially as the model has not drastically changed since it was launched back in 05.

Or possibly so few are sold that it takes years for reviewers to find it ;)
 
LOL, "socialist approach"

I'm surprised at the decent amount of reviews that the Mazda5 still gets in the US, especially as the model has not drastically changed since it was launched back in 05.

Or possibly so few are sold that it takes years for reviewers to find it ;)

I think the whole concept of the existing 5 is just now coming of age. If you look around, cars are just now catching up with the style of the vertical LED tails on the GT 5s. I feel for the teams responsible for updating the 5. It's not an easy job. That said, I'm ticked about the new horizontal tails. Looks like my moms gayrod Odyssey. Add the idiot grin and you've got a weird Honda clone that's destined for an early demise. I hope not, but I really don't see the new one doing well. They should've gone even further in the Asian direction that the 5 is already coming from. Mazda chose to "world car" the 5 and I think it sucks. The people who will look at the new 5 and get excited want a dull ride and a dull car. They will not like the sporty seats and the sporty ride because they want a generic Honda clone. It's really a shame.
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/25/automobiles/autoreviews/25mazda5.html

A Euro-Style David vs. Minivan Goliaths
By LAWRENCE ULRICH
...
One cannot help but admire a machine that combines sporty and utilitarian virtues at such a reasonable price. Yet theres no denying that this cute vanlet is a niche vehicle that faces stiff competition, not just from larger vans, but from wagons and from compact crossovers like the Honda CR-V or Toyota RAV4. (The Mazdas most direct rival is the Kia Rondo, which has conventional hinged rear doors.)
...
INSIDE TRACK: Little big van.

Another good review.... it still befuddles me why Mazda refuses to market this vehicle.
 
Another good review.... it still befuddles me why Mazda refuses to market this vehicle.

Probably because they don't have to!! It's been a runaway success for mazda with almost no effort! The 5 is everywhere! besides, the market segment that the 5 was designed for is quite mature. Remember the 5 is a "world" car, it's arrival to North America was one of it's last stops!

Even GM makes a direct competitor to the 5 (they just don't sell it in North America)
 
Probably because they don't have to!! It's been a runaway success for mazda with almost no effort! The 5 is everywhere! besides, the market segment that the 5 was designed for is quite mature. Remember the 5 is a "world" car, it's arrival to North America was one of it's last stops!

Even GM makes a direct competitor to the 5 (they just don't sell it in North America)

I agree. What's your take on the styling of the current model, as a world car, as opposed to the styling of the new one, supposedly as a world car? My thought is that they watered it down for the US at the expense of the rest of the world. It's a risky move. The new one has too many styling effects and not enough basic style, IMO.
 
Another good review.... it still befuddles me why Mazda refuses to market this vehicle.

As I recall, when it first came out Mazda said they'd be very happy with sales of 15,000 per year. They're getting that with no effort, so that's why they don't market it.

The mystery to me was why Ford never co-branded it and sold it two years ago when the gas crisis was in full swing. That would have easily tripled sales (or more). I guess the new "city van" they are selling is the reason.
 
I agree. What's your take on the styling of the current model, as a world car, as opposed to the styling of the new one, supposedly as a world car? My thought is that they watered it down for the US at the expense of the rest of the world. It's a risky move. The new one has too many styling effects and not enough basic style, IMO.

Actually I think the 5 looks better in it's current trim in the rest of the world. Mazda stripped off a lot of the style for the US version. Thankfully though they didn't breing the hideous roof rails over from the euro model!!

one thing I don't get is the omission of the side skirts on the US version. Just looks copletely stupid without them!

Now if only they would offer the diesel engine in Canada! I'd trade in my 2006 immediately!
 
one thing I don't get is the omission of the side skirts on the US version. Just looks completely stupid without them!
!

Ummm What are you talking about?...the only 5's that dont have them are the Sport Models...the Touring and Grand Touring still have them
 
Probably because they don't have to!! It's been a runaway success for mazda with almost no effort! The 5 is everywhere! besides, the market segment that the 5 was designed for is quite mature. Remember the 5 is a "world" car, it's arrival to North America was one of it's last stops!

Even GM makes a direct competitor to the 5 (they just don't sell it in North America)

Maybe it has been a success for Mazda but I think their are really missing out on a segment that potentially is going to grow exponentially. It's only a matter of time when the big boys start making vehicles like this in NA. I guess Mazda is happy with only 15K vehicles a year.

I guess I'm in the minority in this thread thinking that they REALLY have an opportunity with this car. Advertising works great when you actually have a product that lives up to its billing. I think with any amount of marketing they could easily double sales.
 
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While GM and Ford are bringing the Orlando and C-Max (yet to prove successful), KIA dropped the Rondo in the US and is not replacing it with any similar model, so my guess is that it sells well for Mazda standards, but the market is more of a niche...
 
I, too, don't understand why the car is not marketed more.

I purchased my 2009 from a dealer in Las Cruces, New Mexico that only had
two of them. One was a somewhat plain White and the other, the one I took,
was a red Grand Touring edition.

Since my purchase in January of 2009 I have only seen 3 other Mazda5's on
the roads in Las Cruces or El Paso, Tx.

So they either are not selling because people don't like them, or because Mazda
isn't making very many of them. I believe it must be the latter reason.

The question then is why is Mazda not making them?
 
I, too, don't understand why the car is not marketed more.

I purchased my 2009 from a dealer in Las Cruces, New Mexico that only had
two of them. One was a somewhat plain White and the other, the one I took,
was a red Grand Touring edition.

Since my purchase in January of 2009 I have only seen 3 other Mazda5's on
the roads in Las Cruces or El Paso, Tx.

So they either are not selling because people don't like them, or because Mazda
isn't making very many of them. I believe it must be the latter reason.

The question then is why is Mazda not making them?

I see a few around here. I asked the dealer about it when I picked mine up, they say what most say -- they're meeting their sales targets without advertising, so why pay to advertise. they also mentioned that during the cash for clunkers timeframe, they couldn't keep them on the lot.
 
There’s a whiff of economy car in the plastics and fabrics…
More than a whiff, but I agree that the gauges are of nice quality.

The Mazda starts at less than half that: $19,260 with a 5-speed manual transmission.
Why list MSRP? I see the ’10 Mazda5 Sport with manual transmission advertised at $16,500 in the St. Louis paper (after rebates), that’s a pretty substantial difference.

chief wiggum said:
…they also mentioned that during the cash for clunkers timeframe, they couldn't keep them on the lot…
A friend of mine bought one using the Cash for Clunkers from Bommarito West last July or August, they were really short. The car he test drove was available because the couple that had bought it couldn’t get a loan (bad credit). While my friend was out on a test drive, two other couples came in wanting to test drive it (they were waiting in the lobby). My friend bought it. In February '09, when I bought mine, the same dealer probably had eight or ten Mazda5's.
 
My dealer had 40-50 Mazda5s in April '09 and sold them all before the '10s came out. I see them all over the place. I have at least 10 just in my neighborhood. Having lived in Flagstaff, AZ (hippy capital of the world) and then Lexington, KY (yuppie central) I can tell you that hippies and yuppies like them. If you live in a more traditional American town, like where I grew up in western KY, then you won't see many. You'll see more Explorers and regular minivans. I think if you showed a 5 to most of those traditional drivers that they would like the 5. I'm also not sure why they don't advertise more. It could boil down to production capacity, profitability of certain auto types, and Mazda's long-term plan.
 
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Why list MSRP? I see the 10 Mazda5 Sport with manual transmission advertised at $16,500 in the St. Louis paper (after rebates), thats a pretty substantial difference.

Man I'm living in the wrong country. I wish Canadian dealers would sell cars for well below MSRP. I got my 2008 Corolla for $3,000 below MSRP and 0% 48mo but that was because they were clearing it out for 2009s. We would be lucky to haggle 5% off otherwise.
 
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