New Mazda 2. Somewhat new to Autocross

c7scayman

Member
:
96 Mazda Protege DX 1.5L
I bought this Mazda 2 with the intention of tracking it at autocross events. It is not a daily driver so I can do whatever I want with it. I use a Honda Fit as a daily.
16946701001_87488de83e.jpg


I sold my Porsche Boxster last year. Before I sold it, I tracked it at NJMP raceway and autocrossed it once at an SCCA event, where I was the fastest in my class (CSP C-Street modified) that day. But my time was still a few seconds slower than the autocross prepped NA Miata's. That day, I got hooked on autocross. I later test drove a 13' MX-5 Club at the dealer. I put on it's first mile on the odometer, which included a burnout in the dealership parking lot. I fell in love with that car. But I ended up with the more cost effective Mazda 2. I daily drove a 96 Protg for 8 years and that was a 2378 lb car that handled better than most cars and that car was dirt cheap to run.

So this April in Philly region SCCA, I will be trying out a few autocross events in the HS stock class on mismatched worn tires that came with the car. The car is completely stock. I'm a little disappointed with the car's handling on these tires. They squeal when I'm exiting or entering a highway banking at 40mph. My Porsche was able to handle 60mph before losing grip. I hope to reach the same speeds through a corner with better tires and sway bars.

I know little about the rules and classes. Can you please help answer my questions below?

1. In the HS stock class, what changes to the car are allowed, if any? Can I remove the back seats and spare tire in the HS class?
2. Can I use light weight rims like RPF1's in the HS class?
3. If I buy a B Spec kit from Mazda Motorsports, and install performance brake pads and RPF1's, what class would the car be in? The B Spec has a long list of suspension parts (sway bars, adjustable shocks, etc), cat back exhaust, A/C delete kit, and performance air filter.
4. In any class, am I allowed to get wider wheels and tires? 195mm or 205mm instead of stock 185mm.
5. In any class, can I change the diameter of the wheels? From stock 15" to 16".
6. Are wheel spacers allowed in any class.
7. In my first SCCA event, they had helmets that I was allowed to borrow for my runs. Do SCCA events always have these helmets available? Or do I need to buy a helmet now?
8. Is it just me, or is the ABS in the Mazda 2 very sensitive. It activates in my car often, especially when I slow down on a bumpy road. The feeling and loud ABS sounds makes me nervous. Any easy way to turn off ABS?
 
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Some more questions on rims.
Gram Lights 57V has +25 offset. Can that fit on a Mazda 2 without rubbing issues? I see most wheels people install are +40 to +45.
I imagine they would just stick out of the body a little bit, making it look like I have wheel spacers or wider wheels.
gram-lights-57V1.png


How tough are the Enkei RPF1's? Do they bend or dent easily on potholes? I can't drive anywhere in my area without falling into at least a few pot holes. I already replaced two tires on my other car this season due to pot hole damage. Luckily the stock rims survived.
 
HS class:
1. Spare, jack, etc in that area can be removed. But seats have to stay. I take the headrests off the back seats and fold those down to lower the Center of Gravity just a little.
2. You can modify the front OR rear sway. Get a rear sway bar or stiffener (check Corksport).
3. Rims have to be stock width.
4. Any tire that will fit, with 200 minimum tread wear rating. Lookup Autocross on Tirerack for the tires designed for this use.
5. Engine has to remain stock. You can do axle back exhaust or CAI, but honestly with 1.5L, you will get minimal return for your money. It will just be louder.
6. You can do adjustable shocks but not coilovers. Got mine at Corksport.

Just my 2-cents on HS - that is where I am staying. Mine is my ride to work, and my pay does not match a faster class. I just want to be king of the lawn mowers.
 
HS class:
1. Spare, jack, etc in that area can be removed. But seats have to stay. I take the headrests off the back seats and fold those down to lower the Center of Gravity just a little.
2. You can modify the front OR rear sway. Get a rear sway bar or stiffener (check Corksport).
3. Rims have to be stock width.
4. Any tire that will fit, with 200 minimum tread wear rating. Lookup Autocross on Tirerack for the tires designed for this use.
5. Engine has to remain stock. You can do axle back exhaust or CAI, but honestly with 1.5L, you will get minimal return for your money. It will just be louder.
6. You can do adjustable shocks but not coilovers. Got mine at Corksport.

Just my 2-cents on HS - that is where I am staying. Mine is my ride to work, and my pay does not match a faster class. I just want to be king of the lawn mowers.

Thanks. On #3. Can rims be a different diameter? 16" Or does it have to stay at 15"?
 
To elaborate on the rim issue:

You're limited to stock width wheels(that means 6in wide), you can go UP or DOWN by 1in in diameter. Offset must be within 1/4" of stock.

Stock wheels are 15x6 ET45 IIRC.

So you can use 14x6 or 16x6(both bad ideas. 15x6 has more options for good tires and lighter than 16s), and can go from ET39-ET51 legally. Stay between ET39 and 45 if you get new wheels. Alternately, if you use stock wheels, you can add a 1/4" wheel spacer behind it to achieve your max offset if you so wish.



Anything outside of those parameters will bump you to STF(street touring FWD... this is where I run), and if you go over 7.5" width then that bumps you to FSP(F street prepared) which is a ridiculous class requiring tons of prep.


edit: Going off of www.tirerack.com the lightest 15x6 wheel is the Sparco Assetto Gara at 14lbs and available in all kinds of goofy colors if that's your thing. It's a good looking wheel and they're cheap too. 43mm offset is good and legal too. I'd maybe consider adding a small spacer, can be up to 4.3mm thick to push out to max 1/4" deviation from original offset.. it is less than 3/16" of an inch. So up to a 1/8" or 4mm spacer would be legal behind this particular wheel.


http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/resu...se&filterNew=All&filterWeight=All&sort=Weight



You could run a 14x6 wheel, but be careful to stay at 39mm offset or more. If you search for Miata wheels then there are some options. I DO NOT know if they physically fit our car though. Enkei 14s fit but they are 28mm offset so spoke clearance is more likely to fit than something in the 39-42 range.

http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/resu...sort=Weight&filterNew=All&filterSpecial=false

The Sport Edition CS1 is nice looking at 12.35lbs, 14x6 and +42... Kosei K1 TS are lighter still but are 38mm offset, to make legal you'd need to have the hub mating surface machined down by 1mm.

The downside to 14in wheels is tire choice. The ONLY good auto-x tire in that size is 185/60R14 ZII Star Spec:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires...da&autoYear=1995&autoModel=Miata&autoModClar=

Which isn't a bad tire at all(It's what I just bought, but in 205/50R15 for my STF car), but I'd be concerned about that size being discontinued next year potentially. May be worth it, may not... that's for you to decide.
 
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To elaborate on the rim issue:

You're limited to stock width wheels(that means 6in wide), you can go UP or DOWN by 1in in diameter. Offset must be within 1/4" of stock.

Stock wheels are 15x6 ET45 IIRC.

Anything outside of those parameters will bump you to STF(street touring FWD... this is where I run), and if you go over 7.5" width then that bumps you to FSP(F street prepared) which is a ridiculous class requiring tons of prep.

Once I get a good feel of the car and start doing well in HS, I will look into STF. The stock tires are too skinny for my taste. I will look into new sway bars and maybe a performance filter since that is all I can do in HS for now.

What about the helmets? Does SCCA typically have helmets for drivers to use during their runs?
 
Once I get a good feel of the car and start doing well in HS, I will look into STF. The stock tires are too skinny for my taste. I will look into new sway bars and maybe a performance filter since that is all I can do in HS for now.

What about the helmets? Does SCCA typically have helmets for drivers to use during their runs?



Keep in mind in street class you can only do ONE sway bar, front or rear, not both. The rear is the end that needs it on a FWD car.


As for helmets, you can ask your local region... I think it's a pretty universal thing that every SCCA event has "loaner" helmets. I know the Cincinnati and Western Ohio regions do. Along with the non-SCCA group I run with the Miami Valley Sports Car Club(they use NASA rules).

They'll probably be available, but I'd recommend after 4-5 events if you really plan to stick with it, I'd get my own helmet. It's nice not wearing other peoples' juices on your head. Helmets can get their own thread, but in a nut shell find a place that specializes in motorsports helmets and try on as many as you can. You can estimate sizes close by online sizing charts, but as I found out I don't have a Bell head, I have a Simpson head so I got a Simpson Bandit for myself. I wasn't planning on blowing $400 for a helmet, but it fits perfect and as far as auto-x is concerned, it's legal to run until the snell 2025 rating comes out, it will be smelly and retired long before then I'm sure.

Since the Snell 2015 rated helmets about to come out(I believe due in October), that will be the PERFECT time to buy a Snell 2010 rated helmet usually for a decent price break. If it's just for autocross it will be good until 2025, if you are looking to do HPDE events I believe they require one of the last two ratings, so it will be no good after 2020. Still a ways away.
 
I bought this Mazda 2 with the intention of tracking it at autocross events. It is not a daily driver so I can do whatever I want with it. I use a Honda Fit as a daily.
16946701001_87488de83e.jpg


I sold my Porsche Boxster last year. Before I sold it, I tracked it at NJMP raceway and autocrossed it once at an SCCA event, where I was the fastest in my class (CSP C-Street modified) that day. But my time was still a few seconds slower than the autocross prepped NA Miata's. That day, I got hooked on autocross. I later test drove a 13' MX-5 Club at the dealer. I put on it's first mile on the odometer, which included a burnout in the dealership parking lot. I fell in love with that car. But I ended up with the more cost effective Mazda 2. I daily drove a 96 Protg for 8 years and that was a 2378 lb car that handled better than most cars and that car was dirt cheap to run.

So this April in Philly region SCCA, I will be trying out a few autocross events in the HS stock class on mismatched worn tires that came with the car. The car is completely stock. I'm a little disappointed with the car's handling on these tires. They squeal when I'm exiting or entering a highway banking at 40mph. My Porsche was able to handle 60mph before losing grip. I hope to reach the same speeds through a corner with better tires and sway bars.

I know little about the rules and classes. Can you please help answer my questions below?

1. In the HS stock class, what changes to the car are allowed, if any? Can I remove the back seats and spare tire in the HS class?


In a nut shell - tires, cat back exhaust, air filter(only drop in filter, not cold air intake), shocks(not springs), and ONE sway bar front OR rear can be changed/added/etc. Wheels I already went over. Same width, +/-1in dia, within 1/4" offset of stock offset. Also brake pads/shoes. Rotors can be replaced with OEM/OEM equivalent. Basically no slotted/drilled rotors. No changing calipers, etc.


2. Can I use light weight rims like RPF1's in the HS class?


No rules on weight, as long as the conform to the width/diameter/offset limits.


3. If I buy a B Spec kit from Mazda Motorsports, and install performance brake pads and RPF1's, what class would the car be in? The B Spec has a long list of suspension parts (sway bars, adjustable shocks, etc), cat back exhaust, A/C delete kit, and performance air filter.


The way the SCCA rules work, if the rulebook says you can do it you can, if it doesn't, then you cannot. All the suspension stuff is OK, the filter is fine, the A/C delete will bump you to F Street Prepared. I'm going through the book now, I believe the oil cooler kit is fine too as I remember a proposal about allowing them last year. Brake lines are OK as well in STF.


4. In any class, am I allowed to get wider wheels and tires? 195mm or 205mm instead of stock 185mm.


In HS you can run a 315 wide tire if you want, but it must fit on 15x6in wheel :) Street tires don't do well when wheels are over-tired. Stick with 195 if possible, 205 at the most for stock size wheel IMO. Depends on what tire model you're wanting to get. ZII Star Specs, RS3V2, RE71R, and Rival S are all good tires and probably can't go wrong with any of them.


5. In any class, can I change the diameter of the wheels? From stock 15" to 16".


In STF wheels are wide open aside from 7.5in max width. Also 225 is tire max width. FWIW a few here have tested 225 vs 205 wide tires on 7.5in wheels and the 205s are faster.


8. Is it just me, or is the ABS in the Mazda 2 very sensitive. It activates in my car often, especially when I slow down on a bumpy road. The feeling and loud ABS sounds makes me nervous. Any easy way to turn off ABS?


I think it's your tires that are the problem. Change them before you do anything with the ABS. ABS is a reactive system, it only kicks in if you have lost grip and locked a tire up. It's keeping you from flat spotting your tires.


I added a bit more input to your original questions so hopefully all bases are covered, my replies in red.
 
And yes the oil cooler is STF legal:

14.10 ENGINE AND DRIVETRAIN
A. Oil pans and pickups may be modified or substituted. Addition or modification
of windage trays or crankshaft scrapers is not allowed. Engine
oil, transmission fluid, and power steering fluid coolers may be added or
substituted (including oil to coolant heat exchangers) but may not serve
any additional purpose.



Here's the link to view or download the SCCA rulebook:

http://www.scca.com/solo/content.cfm?cid=44517

It's nice they finally split it up so you can download JUST the street or JUST the street touring categories... used to be a pain in the ass to load a 300+ page rule book every time you want to look something up.

The way the classing works is each class builds on from the previous class. So read and know all the street class rules... and remember everything legal there is also legal in street touring(aside from tire size limits, which is expressed in the wheel/tire section). So everything legal in street touring is also legal in street prepared, etc.
 
Aw hell, also forgot one problem with the Mazdaspeed suspension kit is that the rear springs are mounted on the shock(as a coilover assembly)... this is not legal for our car in STF because of this rule:

14.8 SUSPENSION
A. Ride height may only be altered by suspension adjustments, the use of
spacing blocks, leaf spring shackles, torsion bar levers, or change or
modification of springs or coil spring perches. This does not allow the
use of spacers that alter suspension geometry, such as those between
the hub carrier and lower suspension arm. Springs must be of the same
type as the original (e.g., coil, leaf, torsion bar, bellows) and except as
noted herein, must use the original spring attachment points.
This permits
multiple springs, as long as they use the original mount locations.
Coil spring perches originally attached to struts or shock absorber bodies
may be changed or altered and their position may be adjustable.
Spacers are allowed above or below the spring. Coil springs may incorporate
spring rubbers. Suspension bump stops may be altered or
removed.



Read Jeff's build thread(jasyatz) as he ran the Bilstein kit for a while, and has the info in his thread to divorce the spring from the shock and use it in the original location so it's STF legal.

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?123834964-jasyatz-build-thread

Also he's not too far from you in NJ and would probably be able to help you out in person.


Also Andre's build is a must read if you decide to jump into STF:

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?123809659-My-New-STF-project
 
Thanks.

If only one sway bar change or addition is allowed for HS, What do you guys think is better? Front or Rear?

I read on Racing Beat that the Mazda 2 does not have a rear sway bar stock, but the front does have a stock sway bar. Based on that, I am assuming the rear sway bar is the better option.
 
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And yes the oil cooler is STF legal:

Here's the link to view or download the SCCA rulebook:

http://www.scca.com/solo/content.cfm?cid=44517

It's nice they finally split it up so you can download JUST the street or JUST the street touring categories... used to be a pain in the ass to load a 300+ page rule book every time you want to look something up.

The way the classing works is each class builds on from the previous class. So read and know all the street class rules... and remember everything legal there is also legal in street touring(aside from tire size limits, which is expressed in the wheel/tire section). So everything legal in street touring is also legal in street prepared, etc.

Thanks man. You guys are a big help. People on other forums were pretty rude and not helpful at all.
 
Aw hell, also forgot one problem with the Mazdaspeed suspension kit is that the rear springs are mounted on the shock(as a coilover assembly)... this is not legal for our car in STF because of this rule:

That is the fiesta Kit not the Mazda one. The Mazda one keeps the normal location of the spring.


Welcome to another Mazda 2. I am originally from near Philly.
 
Thanks.

If only one sway bar change or addition is allowed for HS, What do you guys think is better? Front or Rear?

I read on Racing Beat that the Mazda 2 does not have a rear sway bar stock, but the front does have a stock sway bar. Based on that, I am assuming the rear sway bar is the better option.


Any time you add a sway bar, you are effectively losing grip on whatever end it is added to by stiffening it up. We have a FWD car, so the fronts do like 90% of the work. They do 100% of the accellerating, 100% of the turning, and like 60-70% of the braking. You want your front tires to stay happy.

So by adding a rear sway bar, you're adding some stiffness to the chassis, that means when going around a left turn, comparing rear sway bar vs no sway bar, the right rear tire is resisting being pushed up as much, as a result it's transferring more weight to the left front, and keeping the chassis closer to level overall, very good because strut front suspensions need all the help they can get.

If you add a front sway bar, it may "feel" tight initially when turning in(for a SPLIT second), then it will start plowing like a tractor understeering like crazy because you've removed grip from the inside front. It will be harder to put power down when turning too(as it's now trying to lift the inside front).

Here's a REALLY good resource for suspension setup and autocross stuff in general. Pay attention to the "on FWD" section. Much of the information is based on SP/SM classes where you can add a limited slip, not legal for STF so that will have to be disregarded.

http://www.farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets.html

Thanks man. You guys are a big help. People on other forums were pretty rude and not helpful at all.

No problem. All 5-6 of us people who autocross a Mazda2 need to stick together :p


edit: Also if you're on Facebook request to join the M2O group here:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/431895740279303/

A lot of stuff gets posted there sooner than here. My suspension stuff is normally posted there before my build thread as it's just quicker to get pics up from phone to facebook. Here's my build thread BTW. http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/show...latlander937-s-Mazda2-build-SCCA-STF-NASA-NXF
 
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What about the helmets though? Do I need to buy one or does SCCA provide them at solo events?

@flatlander937. I did check out your build thread and subscribed.
 
As for helmets, you can ask your local region... I think it's a pretty universal thing that every SCCA event has "loaner" helmets. I know the Cincinnati and Western Ohio regions do. Along with the non-SCCA group I run with the Miami Valley Sports Car Club(they use NASA rules).

They'll probably be available, but I'd recommend after 4-5 events if you really plan to stick with it, I'd get my own helmet. It's nice not wearing other peoples' juices on your head. Helmets can get their own thread, but in a nut shell find a place that specializes in motorsports helmets and try on as many as you can. You can estimate sizes close by online sizing charts, but as I found out I don't have a Bell head, I have a Simpson head so I got a Simpson Bandit for myself. I wasn't planning on blowing $400 for a helmet, but it fits perfect and as far as auto-x is concerned, it's legal to run until the snell 2025 rating comes out, it will be smelly and retired long before then I'm sure.

Since the Snell 2015 rated helmets about to come out(I believe due in October), that will be the PERFECT time to buy a Snell 2010 rated helmet usually for a decent price break. If it's just for autocross it will be good until 2025, if you are looking to do HPDE events I believe they require one of the last two ratings, so it will be no good after 2020. Still a ways away.
 
On helmets: go to a local motorcycle shop and actually try on some to find what size you really need (don't trust the salesperson). For SCCA, you need Snell 2005 or Snell 2010 rated. Nothing else matters. Since you have a closed top, you can get an open face version. I bought mine from Amazon for a reasonable cost.
 
I bought this Mazda 2 with the intention of tracking it at autocross events. It is not a daily driver so I can do whatever I want with it. I use a Honda Fit as a daily.
16946701001_87488de83e.jpg


I sold my Porsche Boxster last year. Before I sold it, I tracked it at NJMP raceway and autocrossed it once at an SCCA event, where I was the fastest in my class (CSP C-Street modified) that day. But my time was still a few seconds slower than the autocross prepped NA Miata's. That day, I got hooked on autocross. I later test drove a 13' MX-5 Club at the dealer. I put on it's first mile on the odometer, which included a burnout in the dealership parking lot. I fell in love with that car. But I ended up with the more cost effective Mazda 2. I daily drove a 96 Protg for 8 years and that was a 2378 lb car that handled better than most cars and that car was dirt cheap to run.

So this April in Philly region SCCA, I will be trying out a few autocross events in the HS stock class on mismatched worn tires that came with the car. The car is completely stock. I'm a little disappointed with the car's handling on these tires. They squeal when I'm exiting or entering a highway banking at 40mph. My Porsche was able to handle 60mph before losing grip. I hope to reach the same speeds through a corner with better tires and sway bars.

I know little about the rules and classes. Can you please help answer my questions below?

1. In the HS stock class, what changes to the car are allowed, if any? Can I remove the back seats and spare tire in the HS class?
2. Can I use light weight rims like RPF1's in the HS class?
3. If I buy a B Spec kit from Mazda Motorsports, and install performance brake pads and RPF1's, what class would the car be in? The B Spec has a long list of suspension parts (sway bars, adjustable shocks, etc), cat back exhaust, A/C delete kit, and performance air filter.
4. In any class, am I allowed to get wider wheels and tires? 195mm or 205mm instead of stock 185mm.
5. In any class, can I change the diameter of the wheels? From stock 15" to 16".
6. Are wheel spacers allowed in any class.
7. In my first SCCA event, they had helmets that I was allowed to borrow for my runs. Do SCCA events always have these helmets available? Or do I need to buy a helmet now?
8. Is it just me, or is the ABS in the Mazda 2 very sensitive. It activates in my car often, especially when I slow down on a bumpy road. The feeling and loud ABS sounds makes me nervous. Any easy way to turn off ABS?
Do you live in South Jersey or Philly area? Both of which are right in my backyard. I'm trying to make the SJR event this Sunday in AC if you want to make it down there, we can chat..

I've got the BSpec suspension pack already, and a set of SSRs with 205/50/15 Rivals on them. Add that and a couple hours and you've got yourself an STF car.
This answers questions 1-5.. you don't really want a big heavy wheel on this car, think small and wide to gain gearing advantage.
Spacers are allowed but you need to install longer studs. The SSRs are already at ET35 so no need for them.

7) Loaner helmets are available at SJR and NNJR events. You can use any M Snell rated helmet 2005or later. I would suggest a 2010 or later unit if you chose to purchase one. You can get them from a couple of the venders on this forum, any motorcycle shop, or online. I would buy the first one from a bike shop so you can try it on for proper fitment. Figure abot $100-$125 to source one locally.

8) No, it's not sensitive, but the stock suspension is soft, so it hyper activates. Get a nice set of tires, and a set of dampers that have a bit more compression/rebound (just about all the aftermarket performance stuff does), and will mitigate a lot if what you're feeling. Easiest way to disconnect is to pull both fuses, but I've learned to autox around it and the ABS is nice to have on the street.
 
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Do you live in South Jersey or Philly area? Both of which are right in my backyard. I'm trying to make the SJR event this Sunday in AC if you want to make it down there, we can chat..

I've got the BSpec suspension pack already, and a set of SSRs with 205/50/15 Rivals on them. Add that and a couple hours and you've got yourself an STF car.

I am in the Philly region and I am going to the SCCA Philly Summer Series events at Warminster Community Park (4/19 is first event) and Wells Fargo Center. AC is about 1.5 hours away from me. I'm not sure if I will go yet. My wife wants to see the cherry blossom festival in D.C. that weekend. We'll see. I definitely would like to meet up sometime. I want to test drive your car to see what the B-Spec package feels like on the road.
 
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