Need some help - Multiple CEL

[Juleehen]

Hi everyone,

I've been reading for a while on this forum and this is my first post. I usually find what I'm looking for with the search, but the problems I'm having now are maybe too complex for this.

For a while I've been having CEL light coming on and off and now I finally got around to get the codes out. There are the following :

P0110 : Intake Air Temperature Sensor 1 Circuit

P0100 : Mass or Volume Air Flow Circuit

P0115 : Engine Coolant Temperature Circuit

P0120 : Throttle/Pedal Position Sensor A Circuit

P1600 : loss of KAM power, circuit open

Is there a single problem that could explain all of this or is it all seperate ?

Anybody as an ideal of what my problem(s) might be ? What should I look at under the hood ?

My car is a stock 2003 protege5. The EGR as been changed and I got the revised model. I do all the regular maintenance on my car.

Thank you

 

[dacquesta1]

you should check your wire harness for cracked wires and also check your grounds. check the fusebox as well.

 

[CheeseHelmet]

P0110 : Intake Air Temperature Sensor 1 Circuit

P0100 : Mass or Volume Air Flow Circuit

P0115 : Engine Coolant Temperature Circuit

P0120 : Throttle/Pedal Position Sensor A Circuit

P1600 : loss of KAM power, circuit open

Where did you get these numbers? None of them match the codes in the service manual, could your OBDII scanner be faulty? And more importantly, how does the car drive?

 

[dacquesta1]

i never even checked the codes he put up. just the fact that it keeps coming up circuit says bad wiring to me.

 

[Juleehen]

Thank you for your answers !

Well I did a couple thing :

1- I checked the wiring and the fuse box. I found one relay module that was not plugged in completely. I unplugged it and replugged it correctly. I did not find any wires that seem visibly affected so I'll check that some other time with a friend (who is un Japan right now....).

2- I opened the mass air flow while checking the wires. Turns out I did not wash my air filter for a while. So I got the K&N washer kit and washed it.

3- I was doubtful that the ODB2 scanner I got in rebate at Canadian Tire was working correctly because it always gave me an ERROR reading (even then I could retrieve codes...). So I tried it on other cars (that have no problems) and still got errors. So I changed it today and the new one seems to work better.

4-Since the first scanner I got did not work, before getting the new one I cleared the codes by unplugging the battery. With my clean air filter I did not get a new code BUT, the OBD2 still fails 4 anti-pollution test :
-Catalyst Monitor
-EVAP Monitor
-O2 Sensor Monitor
-EGR Monitor
From what I understand in the literature that comes with the ODB2 reader is that my catalytic converter seems to be on its way out. For a 7 year old car with 185000km it seems like it could be wright.

So I'll be on the lookout for anything else in the next days, and I'll eventually change the catalytic converter.

Thank you again for your answers !

 

[dacquesta1]

that sucks. my cat has over 200k on it and no problem. started up my new engine today and for the first time in as long as i can remember the exhaust smelled...new lol

 

[beh]

Try driving the car for 50 miles or so. The emission checks take that long to pass or fail, and you may or may not have codes after that.

 

[slavrenz]

Thank you for your answers !

Well I did a couple thing :

1- I checked the wiring and the fuse box. I found one relay module that was not plugged in completely. I unplugged it and replugged it correctly. I did not find any wires that seem visibly affected so I'll check that some other time with a friend (who is un Japan right now....).

2- I opened the mass air flow while checking the wires. Turns out I did not wash my air filter for a while. So I got the K&N washer kit and washed it.

3- I was doubtful that the ODB2 scanner I got in rebate at Canadian Tire was working correctly because it always gave me an ERROR reading (even then I could retrieve codes...). So I tried it on other cars (that have no problems) and still got errors. So I changed it today and the new one seems to work better.

4-Since the first scanner I got did not work, before getting the new one I cleared the codes by unplugging the battery. With my clean air filter I did not get a new code BUT, the OBD2 still fails 4 anti-pollution test :
-Catalyst Monitor
-EVAP Monitor
-O2 Sensor Monitor
-EGR Monitor
From what I understand in the literature that comes with the ODB2 reader is that my catalytic converter seems to be on its way out. For a 7 year old car with 185000km it seems like it could be wright.

So I'll be on the lookout for anything else in the next days, and I'll eventually change the catalytic converter.

Thank you again for your answers !

What literature are you talking about? Just because the catalyst monitor isn't ready doesn't mean your cat is going bad. Every time you unplug your battery those monitors reset, so you have to drive around for a while (sometimes it can take a week or more) to get those monitors to run.

You fail emissions because they can't test your car if the monitors aren't set.

 

[Juleehen]

Alright I'll wait before I do anything and I will check it again next weekend.

The litterature in question was the manual that comes with the ODB2 reader. I am not a mechanic so I was also looking for opinions on the diagnostic.

Thank you all for your help !

 

[slavrenz]

Alright I'll wait before I do anything and I will check it again next weekend.

The litterature in question was the manual that comes with the ODB2 reader. I am not a mechanic so I was also looking for opinions on the diagnostic.

Thank you all for your help !

What I meant to ask was:

Are you taking the literature that talks about your catalyst monitor not being ready to mean that your catalytic converter is bad? Like I said above, a monitor that is not ready does not mean that the component is bad - it just means that the car's computer hasn't tested it yet.

 

[Juleehen]

I am not sure i understand your question.

The litterature that comes with the ODB2 reader is not specific to my car. I made a diagnostic from what i read in this book. I was not aware that it took some time for the sensors to "reset". So basicly there might not be a problem with my catalytic converter. I will plug the ODB2 scanner (after using the car for a week after i reseted the computer) and see if the anti-polution tests still fail or now pass.

So for now its a waiting game.

Thanks !

 

[slavrenz]

I am not sure i understand your question.

The litterature that comes with the ODB2 reader is not specific to my car. I made a diagnostic from what i read in this book. I was not aware that it took some time for the sensors to "reset". So basicly there might not be a problem with my catalytic converter. I will plug the ODB2 scanner (after using the car for a week after i reseted the computer) and see if the anti-polution tests still fail or now pass.

So for now its a waiting game.

Thanks !

Yes, that is what I was asking - did you understand the monitor not being "ready" to mean that your catalytic converter was bad? If so, that's not the case.

Each monitor (EVAP system, catalyst, etc.) has a very specific set of conditions that the car must see before it "tests" a particular component of the car. For the catalyst monitor, I believe that you have to drive at 45 mph or more for at least 2 minutes - however, the exact procedure is detailed in the repair manual.

Doing this will set the monitor, and the car will complete what is known as 1 "drive cycle" for that monitor. For the catalytic converter, I believe that the cat must test as bad for 2 drive cycles in order for a CEL to come on with the P0421 code. This rules out any fluke test results, and ensures that the cat is actually bad before alerting the driver.

PM me or post on here if you have any other questions.

 

[Juleehen]

Well....just coming back from work today and the computer must have finished its refresh cycle because I juste got a CEL.

P0421 (sad2)

So, anyone know a good place to get a good quality catalytic converter for cheap in Canada (Qubec) ?

I plan on kepping the car a lest 2 years, so I might no need an OEM one. But I don't want one that will last 6 months either.

Thank you

 

[CheeseHelmet]

Well....just coming back from work today and the computer must have finished its refresh cycle because I juste got a CEL.

P0421 (sad2)

So, anyone know a good place to get a good quality catalytic converter for cheap in Canada (Qubec) ?

I plan on kepping the car a lest 2 years, so I might no need an OEM one. But I don't want one that will last 6 months either.

Thank you

I have no idea where to get a new cat in Quebec, but I know a lot of people just replace that first cat with a header. It's cheaper and it'll give you a bit more power. The second cat should still be enough to keep your exhaust smelling right, that first one is just there to reduce emissions on startup.

RockAuto.com has new ones for a little over $200, you can get it shipped to a forwarding company and go pick it up in the US to save on shipping/duty.

 

[slavrenz]

I have no idea where to get a new cat in Quebec, but I know a lot of people just replace that first cat with a header. It's cheaper and it'll give you a bit more power. The second cat should still be enough to keep your exhaust smelling right, that first one is just there to reduce emissions on startup.

RockAuto.com has new ones for a little over $200, you can get it shipped to a forwarding company and go pick it up in the US to save on shipping/duty.

+1. An ultracheap solution (for now) would be to keep the old converter, and use the non-fouler trick (search for it on here, it's very easy to find and do) to keep your CEL off.

 

[Juleehen]

Will any of those 2 solutions will get me better MPG than keeping the old cat as it is ? Right now i'm getting awful MPG !

I'm also looking for a used one. Maybe I could get lucky and get one of a low mileage car that as been totaled from behind !

 

[slavrenz]

Will any of those 2 solutions will get me better MPG than keeping the old cat as it is ? Right now i'm getting awful MPG !

I'm also looking for a used one. Maybe I could get lucky and get one of a low mileage car that as been totaled from behind !

It probably won't help your MPG that much. Try replacing your front O2 sensor - they tend to wear out after 100k miles.

 

[CheeseHelmet]

It probably won't help your MPG that much. Try replacing your front O2 sensor - they tend to wear out after 100k miles.

Does it make all that much of a difference? I'm past 100k miles and wouldn't mind a little better gas mileage

 

[slavrenz]

Does it make all that much of a difference? I'm past 100k miles and wouldn't mind a little better gas mileage

I think you can usually expect around a 5-10% increase in mpg, if your O2 sensor has been going for 100k miles. I changed mine at about 102k miles, and I saw about a 2mpg increase.

 

[CheeseHelmet]

I think you can usually expect around a 5-10% increase in mpg, if your O2 sensor has been going for 100k miles. I changed mine at about 102k miles, and I saw about a 2mpg increase.

Neat, I'll add that to my list of things I should replace.