N/A Discussion

[1sty]

no one answered the guy, i know its a noob question but still.

yes dc2 is an integra, it is one of the most famous integras in the line for tuning possibilities. The DC2 typeR's is what made them famous, the old b18c engine.

The new Acura RSX is actually still called an integra in japan, it is the DC5 integra.

The NSX is the high end acura sports car, a dream car IMO that handles phenominally, but NSX is just the name, like integra, civic, protege etc.

As for the way this thread has goen with plugs, wires, oil honestly with all that stuff you will feel something, better throttle response and smoother acceleration. Other than that power gains are so minimal you wont notice it, 1/4 mile times may be affected in the hundreths of a second but nothin more.

In the end it is for throttle response and smooth accel. as much as it is for engine safety, as in it will help your engine out a little with those mods, make em safer at higher use when modding the engine and overall make it run in a more healthy manner. If that doesnt sound too weird when talking about an engine.

Thank you for the infor but another did anser the DC2 question.
I am well familiar with acuras line, My father has driven them since I was 2 so they have always been a part of my life and I had an integra RS when I was 17.

 

[Micah]

The turbo option is a less expensive one if you can remain conservative. Again at 6 PSI and only an ear for knock you can have the FP system or SPoolin system for under $4K and the only thing you NEED is a clutch in 6 months when the factory one starts to slip. It took me 6 months at 8 PSI for the clutch to slip and when removed it was in perfect condition, so its not like your damaginf it.

Hey, don't forget about Modern Performance Inc.

We are also under $4000 for our Stage I

 

[1sty]

Sorry, Micah, just not familiar with your stuff that much.

 

[Familia323]

I guess what we are all waiting for now are lists of mods and dyno sheets, and track times.

 

[twizyours]

Yes indeed

My List:

Current mods:

MP3 ECU
JDM Cams
4 Guage ground wiring
CAI
MSD

Once I get:
Ractive FPR
Custom 2 1/4 catback
headers
(possibly TRI Point Cams)

I am then heading to the dyno.

I just started a new job 2 days ago and currently have a part time job at autozone. So if everything keeps working out I mite be getting this done soon.

Also it should probally cost me about $400 without cam gears, so it is very possible this could happen soon. I am going with the second gen headers on ebay for $170 since their have been some good post on probetalk about them from numerous people for $170 I am going with them.

 

[professor_booty]

I think 200 whp would be possible N/A. I have an import magazine and they got a Honda 1.6 liter engine running at 201 or 202 hp N/A at the wheels. I sure it could be done with the 2.0, you just need to do some work. Granted they have about 11 or 12:1 compression and run racing fuel...and have done all of the necessary engine work, porting polishing, etc. I'm sure if a 1.6 can get there a 2.0 can also.

 

[MP3_boy]

1/4 mile time.
16.3 best run

mods:
mazdaspeed cams (both)
injen intake
2 1/4 stainless exhaust with second cat removed.
spool lowering spirings
and kart boy short shifter

(full interior with 2 subs)

kind of depressing, alot more internal work is needed.

 

[neuromancer]

1FastMP5 - I won't call BS on you because I know what it's like to have someone call BS on you. I recently had my local P5 call bs on my gains, so, I showed them my dyno. Now, they call BS on my dyno and forced me out of the club... Nice, eh? How hard was it to locate and install a MP3 ecu?

You weren't forced out from anything. You left the forum on your own, then deleted all your own posts. Asked me to remove your account, so I disabled it.

If you call that being forced...then I don't know what to tell you.

A couple of people questioned your 116whp on THAT dyno, and there was a bit of a debate. Nothing to run off for.

Just wanted to clear that up. Our club is a good club, with a lot of nice people in it. We don't want people implying that you were forced out.

You are welcome back to our forum anytime you want, just like I told you via email when you left.

Jay

 

[michaelnchelle]

I know this is a total newb question, but whats the difference between our US-spec engines and the J-spec FS-ZE engine?

Corksport claims 170bhp from a stock FS-ZE, and its supposed to be a direct drop in replacement for $1950. This seems like a good place to start for those wanting NA power, its about half the cost of a turbo kit, and should have basically same-as-stock reliability.

Can a US-spec engine be converted with the proper parts to a J-spec replica with similar NA power output? Or is it cheaper to just buy a new engine and swap?

 

[Blown]

High compression pistons, different intake manifold, intake cam, exhaust cam, different ECU, one catalytic convertor, and different exhaust manifold. By the way, it should be 170ps or about 165HP.

You can install the pistons and cams to a NA(north american) spec engine but without proper tuning, the pistons would be useless. The cams add no extra lift but more overlap(small hp gain). However, I believe that the 170ps is underated. With I/H/E, cams, pistons, and tuning I think you'd be in the 180bhp range.

Besides, the JDM engine is an OBD1 engine compared to our OBDII engines. To swap the engine, you'd have to converter to a different ECU.

 

[1FASTMP5]

I know this is a total newb question, but whats the difference between our US-spec engines and the J-spec FS-ZE engine?

Corksport claims 170bhp from a stock FS-ZE, and its supposed to be a direct drop in replacement for $1950. This seems like a good place to start for those wanting NA power, its about half the cost of a turbo kit, and should have basically same-as-stock reliability.

Can a US-spec engine be converted with the proper parts to a J-spec replica with similar NA power output? Or is it cheaper to just buy a new engine and swap?

if you get some higher compression than the fs-ze pistons,ingintion system,piggie back ecu, fs-ze or even custom cams,full length header,good flywheel & clutch, fs-ze intake manifold,and cai,some light head work. i think you will be very close to the 200 hp @ the crank mark.

as to were the fs-ze has 168@ the crank and maybe 130-135whp
and is almost impossible to get the right ecu for it.

 

[michaelnchelle]

So it sounds like the biggest contributor to the increased power of the J-spec engine is higher compression pistons, but without an ECU, its pretty much useless. So then I guess the engines imported by CorkSport do not include the ECU... damn. I thought this sounded like the perfect plan for an all-motor 200hp Protege!

Has anyone tried increasing bore and/or stroke of a Protege motor? Getting it up to 2.2 liters should put out a nice increase in hp and tq, if the block can handle it of course.

 

[Installshield 2]

The FS-ZE's ECU is an OBD-I system making it pretty hard to rig into any 3rd gen Protege...You would basically need to aquire a entire J-spec Familia's front end to obtain all the needed sensors, wiring, hoses etc. to make the swap from OBD-II to I...

Not many on the Protegeclub forum went the NA route...but with a stroker kit you could considerably bump displacement like you said...but it probably wouldn't help peak horsepower, just lowend torque which is decent already...

In my experience with the FS, this is what it boils down to (I just skimmed most of the posts to this thread, so I apologize if this is redundant)...

The main problem with the FS dinosaur (especially the DE) is breathing...It will never breathe well enough to promote a massive redline, and in turn never give excellent NA capabilities...I would set the absolute "streetable" limit of a hugely built NA FS at about 180whp (it is true that the Speed touring Pro's make around 225whp, but they are not streetable and are extremely peaky)...With ridiculous compression, aggressive cams and a complete stand alone...A realistic limit that could be obtained fairly cheaply would be more like 150whp...That being a FS brought to ZE specs (possibly with even slightly higher compression) header, decent programmable piggy-back, and the rest of normal NA bolt-ons (intake, exhuast etc.)...The biggest problem would be the tuning, you would most likely have to dyno-tune it to make sure you are making the most power safely...other than that though it wouldn't be that far out of reach for some of you. You figure most of the parts can be purchased for around $200 each (the set of J-spec pistons are like $180 I think) and a lot of you can do the work yourself, it might make a decent approach compared to FI...And you will not have to wait for boost to make the power...

I am currently in the middle of a high compression, low-boost setup...I am planning on raising the compression to about 10.7:1 and using the ZE's cams and intake manifold and then building a custom turbo system...I will most likely go with a T-25, intercooled and decent width exhuast with a boost setting of around 4-5 psi...I am hoping that with the raised compression I will be able to achieve not too far south of 200whp and hopefully not a ton of torque...My goal is just to blend the best parts of an NA engine (instant throttle response and a nice smooth powerband) with a fast spooling turbo system...If you have the friends you can source a lot of great parts for stupid cheap...I have a T-25, a used Spearco FMIC, a custom turbo manifold, and the cams and I haven't spent 1 grand yet...I have a decent connection for the plumbing, BOV and gauges electronics and hopefully can at least get it running for around $2500 (that mostly depending on what type of ECU I can get away with, it might turn out to be a lot more expensive)...I will let you know how it turns out...

Some more advantages hopefully will be better gas mileage than a low compression high boost FS, and still maintain a flat torque curve...If I can keep the torque at bay there won't be too much stress on the drivetrain (mostly the gearbox is what I am worried about) but I haven't seen dyno's of any FS's similarly modified...

 

[flat_black]

Welcome to the club Installshield! I feel a bit off calling you a newbie, given the first post of yours that I've seen (This one). =) At any rate, you're very right... 150hp would be where I would personally cap the gains for an N/A system. 150whp would sate me, surely, but not some of those crazy, power hungry people. Hehee. I've lately been thinking about going the turbo route, but seeing as I'm shooting for such a low whp, and will be autocrossing, and not dragging, the car, I'm going to try and keep the car N/A. With that, I'm probably going to pick up the thermal cat-back, and get Martel Racing nearby to bend me up a 2.5" down/midpipe with cats to remain legal. I'm not sure what to do as far as head work; I was thinking about trying out a port and polish job on the intake and exhaust manifold to try and aid the wheezy FS-DE, and can't decide if I want to try HC pistons first, or if I want to do cams... But either way, I'm also going to pick up a piggy once the new owner of Perfworks piggy project gets back to me, and we'll see what type of gain that brings. Anyway, good luck with the low pressure turbo, as it seems like you have a good roadmap to follow from the get-go. And, once again, welcome to the club!

 

[Blown]

Now, how would one tune an engine and address fuel concerns? Would a stand-alone be the route to go? Or, a piggyback unit of some sort? I know the S-AFCII sound promising but it does not adjust timing. Also, what about the AEM E-manage?

 

[REMillers]

*bookmark for late reading tonight*

 

[DooMer_MP3]

Now, how would one tune an engine and address fuel concerns? Would a stand-alone be the route to go? Or, a piggyback unit of some sort? I know the S-AFCII sound promising but it does not adjust timing. Also, what about the AEM E-manage?

Emanage unfortunately cannot do timing on our setup either. The only piggyback I know of that will work, but who knows if we'll ever see it, is the unit perfworks WAS working on, and has now been transferred over to Modern Performance Works (Micah is on here and "works" for them so you can ask him).

Chris

 

[Blown]

How about the HKS engine management system? There has to be some standalone system that we could use.

 

[DooMer_MP3]

... Excellent post by Installshiled 2 ...

Installshield,

Nice to see you on this board for however long you decide to stay. I've enjoyed your posts on PClub .

Its been said before, and it'll be said again. All of the mods in the world will get you no where near close to their potential without proper tuning! I really hope the piggyback in development by Modern Performance Works comes out soon for the NA guys.

I am not going to do any mods this year as winter is approaching and Im so close to paying off my horrid credit card debt! Yay! But my decision on which route to go will be made after some of you guinea pigs get some results .

But check out this post: http://www.protegemp3.com/vbb230/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26817 about the MP3 rally engine for sale. It appears that they raised the compression ratio, 5 angle valve job, stiffer valve springs, Sunbelt cams/pulleys. They got 136whp (about 170hp at the crank with a 20% driveline loss) on a US Protege ECU! I imagine with proper tuning you'd see an even nicer gain.

NA can be done on these engines, but you can't expect too much. I think its for the kind of person that just wants their car to be a little more fun, but streetable.

Chris

 

[Installshield 2]

Thanks guys, I will probably hang around for a while if it is ok...I initially thought this board was mostly MSP's and aesthetic mods, which are cool but I don't know a whole lot about body kits and appearance modding, but if you guys care about performance I will try to let you know everything I can...I am still new to this engine (only owned my P5 for about 2 years) but there is definate potential for making it considerably more powerful...Sadly the Pclub seems to be gone, but even if it comes back I will start hanging around here more often, the traffic is nuts...

Hopefully the real tech guru's from the Pclub come over too...I noticed some posts from ED (don't worry about him being an asshole, it is not personal and he knows his s***)...Hopefully Traveler, Jesse, and Chris will get over here at some point...

NA can be done on these engines, but you can't expect too much. I think its for the kind of person that just wants their car to be a little more fun, but streetable.

Chris

exactly...a 150whp NA Protege would be a lot of fun and be deceavingly quick compared to stock...