Mp5t 2013

[BRIAN_MP5T]

So, No Shock. My AWR pan leaks out the welds.
(I was assured that Tony had fixed this problem, but he apparently could not figure out the most basic welding techinques.)
Seriously hard to believe that something that was $400 + dollars cant outperform the Hunk of crap OEM pan..



Pan Plan.

Media Blast Pan
Weld inside and outside (TONY!!!)
Machine mating surface (Because it is warped to s*** TONY!!!!)
Coat pan with "Bluing" (used on assault riffles)
Media Blast windage tray
Install second AN10 Fitting for DOC B Oil Return
Machine both sides of windage tray true
Install windage tray and modified oil pump to engine block with Permitex "Right Stuff" gasket maker.
Install oil pan to windage tray with Cork Gasket

 

[ihone]

damn dude.....bad luck with the pan I see. But - by the looks of it, you have a plan. Just sucks that you have to take those steps even after paying 400 bucks.....

 

[Sport23]

Is there any practical purpose for the bluing in this application?

Why the cork gasket? Once you machine the pan flat won't the permatex do a better job?

 

[Installshield 2]

^^if the pan is steel, bluing will make it more resistant to corrosion than stainless...or nearly the same, anyway...its PERFECT for sealing off questionable welds, which it looks to be exactly what Brian needs...

I don't know off the top of my head, but the windage tray is cast aluminum, right?...aluminum is notoriously hard to flush mount with other metals (i.e. the ridiculous steps needed to do a head gasket perfectly...NOT easy)...it expands completely differently, etc...a full 'flexible' gasket will hold better than just permatex when dealing with insane heat differentials from an iron block, to an aluminum cradle, to a steel pan...and 400+ hp...but cork won't hold up to pressure as well as proper permatex, so i'm assuming that is why above the cradle...its not being used...pressure in the pan is zero, its just a tank...but could still develop leaks from the heat cycling of a high output engine...no to mention, the cork gasket will be much easier to access and replace than the lower block to windage tray...

Not trying to blow smoke up Brian's ass...but this is easily one of the longest running 400+ hp FS engines on earth...i'd trust him haha...As soon as i saw he builds his bottom ends with WD-40 during assembly (one of the best 'tricks' of a home builder, that many don't even think about)...i stopped asking questions about what/why he is doing...

 

[Sport23]

I definately trust him. I just wanted to know why so that I could learn some more from his build (popcorn)

 

[BRIAN_MP5T]

Is there any practical purpose for the bluing in this application?

It's a very durable finish and I have assess to someone who can do it for me.

Why the cork gasket? Once you machine the pan flat won't the permatex do a better job?

Once I go through the trouble of machining the surface, I want to be able to remove the pan and replace it at will without the need to scrape the old gasket off and ruin the finish.

^^if the pan is steel, bluing will make it more resistant to corrosion than stainless...or nearly the same, anyway...its PERFECT for sealing off questionable welds, which it looks to be exactly what Brian needs...

I don't know off the top of my head, but the windage tray is cast aluminum, right?...aluminum is notoriously hard to flush mount with other metals (i.e. the ridiculous steps needed to do a head gasket perfectly...NOT easy)...it expands completely differently, etc...a full 'flexible' gasket will hold better than just permatex when dealing with insane heat differentials from an iron block, to an aluminum cradle, to a steel pan...and 400+ hp...but cork won't hold up to pressure as well as proper permatex, so i'm assuming that is why above the cradle...its not being used...pressure in the pan is zero, its just a tank...but could still develop leaks from the heat cycling of a high output engine...no to mention, the cork gasket will be much easier to access and replace than the lower block to windage tray...

Not trying to blow smoke up Brian's ass...but this is easily one of the longest running 400+ hp FS engines on earth...i'd trust him haha...As soon as i saw he builds his bottom ends with WD-40 during assembly (one of the best 'tricks' of a home builder, that many don't even think about)...i stopped asking questions about what/why he is doing...

My plan was to run this in such a way that the seal was reliable for one year. I understand why Mazda uses the flexible permanent gasket, I bought a pack of 10 Cork gaskets (They were cheap as hell in bulk) and I am just trying to test out a better way of sealing this thing up. If it fails and leaks, I can always go back to the tube gasket with no loss. I got it to work, I need now to get it to work without bleeding all over the road.

 

[i12drivemyMP5]

Why are those welds in the pic above not all the way accross?

 

[big Lou]

Exact same problem I had! Since i blasted the pan, I cut it so it wouldn't be so close to the crossmember. Just welded it all back together properly and had Brian coat and came out perfect!

 

[BRIAN_MP5T]

Why are those welds in the pic above not all the way accross?

I suppose they thought that internal welds were all that would be required..

Exact same problem I had! Since i blasted the pan, I cut it so it wouldn't be so close to the crossmember. Just welded it all back together properly and had Brian coat and came out perfect!

Nice Results.

 

[big Lou]

bad situation! After paying 400+ dollars you would expect a perfect fit! But not the case, he wanted me to remove the rubber stop on the cross member only leaving a Millimeters between the pan and the crossmember. I was pissed and emailed him asking what would happen if on a dyno run my engine rocked back and fourth hard enough puncher ing a hole in my pan causing a total loss would he cover the damages? No response, after a few more attempts I gave up on the emails....

 

[BRIAN_MP5T]

You can gain more space by shaving a half off the frame.

 

[Maxx Mazda]

My pan used to leak as well, had to weld it myself.

I understand the reason for the cork gasket, but in MY EXPERIENCE the cork ones have leaked like crazy. Your mileage may vary of course, but I had the same ideas as you at one point and actually ended up going back to the silver "right stuff" for that reason. If you need to remove the pan frequently, permatex makes a product called "Motoseal" that is grey in color and is meant for parts that are disassembled often. It deals very well, but should you need to break the bond it cleans off without any scraping.

 

[Alamo1]

+1 on the cork gaskets not being worth it.

 

[BRIAN_MP5T]

******* Tony!

Proper!

I like a company that is able to make exactly what you want!

I am a BIG FAN of CR3

 

[704_mazdaguy]

I use the cork gasket with a thin layer of black right stuff on each side....still leaks. Im going to have to take this pan off and get it welded and resurfaced like everybody else is saying I guess.

 

[BRIAN_MP5T]

I also tried 4 different things last year, but the leak is because of the warped plate and the s*** welds.

Stupid when you have a $60K + Car with a $400 oil pan that leaks all summer.

 

[BRIAN_MP5T]

Here is a real close up of the external welds and the DOC B Oil Return in the windage. AN10

There is no coating on the welds in this picture, They are bare metal.

The pan is going to be media blasted today and then I will play with what to cover it with.

 

[JaLMP5]

I picked up the same ADP from CR3, no holes what so ever. I can't wait to get it, looks great. I've been looking for an AWR oil pan so once I get it looks like I'll be rewelding it immediately. Don't have much of a choice since its the only company that makes one.

 

[BRIAN_MP5T]

Try to get it without a coating. It is dificult to remove it to prep it for welding.

Media Blast
Wire Brush
Acetone

It took longer to prepare than to weld.

 

[Cleverfrog]

Nice!