Moving from a Brabus to a Protege5 !

[denim]

Hello fellow P5'ers, glad I found this site. I look to learn as much as I can from everyone here about my new(ish) car. I hope to be able to contribute in terms of car audio. Glad to see there is a dedicated place for this little car. I can get into the story later, but I had a tragic end to a very rare 1993 (MB) Brabus 300ce, and I was in a tight spot with money, time and resources. So I did a little research over the span of a few days and found an awesome deal on a 2003 Protege5 5-speed in New Jersey. I had been wanting a 3 for a little while now as a project car, but this was more feasible money wise and was all most too good to pass up. Nice to not have a car payment.

This car will also be a Sound Quality demo vehicle for my car audio company: SSAudio. Anyway, I am looking to only do minor performance modifications to this car. I have to keep my self in check as I have gone over board on past vehicles and just destroyed the ride quality or the engine reliability. So far, my little Mazda has been great on gas (averaging 32.3mpg over 6 tanks I believe), and much much cheaper to fill up. My commute is long so I need to retain nice and high mpg.

I hope to get some solid ideas on respectably priced performance modifications. I have already been peaking at the likes of Corksport and such. The two issues I had with the car was road noise/sound transfer and horsepower. I have taken care of the first part, now on to the power!

So far I have done a full SoundDeadenerShowdown install and I will post up the build log here soon.

Here some photo's of the exterior of the car as it stands:

And here is a picture of my wonderful, but sadly gone, Brabus 300ce:

 

[CTt3P5]

Congrats and sad to hear about the Brabus....from what I can see that was a damn clean '93.

If you are looking for any true HP gains you'll want to research boosting (quite a few have done it) or super charging the car (a select few have done it). Your traditional bolt-on performance parts I/H/E will not really gain you big numbers on this platform. I'd suggest (as will others) that you should invest in suspension mods first. The car handles very well in stock form but drop her a bit and you'll go out of your way to drive the back roads with the twisties. I just recently lowered the car and wish I had done it first (of course I had other reasons at the time...didn't want to piss the wife off). lol

There is a lot of info to be found here and you can find some pretty good deals in the f/s section....enter at your own risk though. lol

 

[denim]

Congrats and sad to hear about the Brabus....from what I can see that was a damn clean '93.

If you are looking for any true HP gains you'll want to research boosting (quite a few have done it) or super charging the car (a select few have done it). Your traditional bolt-on performance parts I/H/E will not really gain you big numbers on this platform. I'd suggest (as will others) that you should invest in suspension mods first. The car handles very well in stock form but drop her a bit and you'll go out of your way to drive the back roads with the twisties. I just recently lowered the car and wish I had done it first (of course I had other reasons at the time...didn't want to piss the wife off). lol

There is a lot of info to be found here and you can find some pretty good deals in the f/s section....enter at your own risk though. lol

Thanks for the response. I have been poking around online, I did find one good topic that had a list of suggest mod's performance wise (have it up on my home computer). I do not want to fork out the money for forced induction at this time, and I have read a few mentions about minimal gains from the I/H/E route. Springs wise, I want to stay middle of the road and not too expensive and not too low. As mentioned above, I went too far, perfect example is the Brabus, just way too low for everyday driving as seen:

Over the years, I have been very happy with Eibach springs. Drop wise, they seem to be middle of the pack, same with price. 1.4" Front and 1.2" rear seems to be average, so that would be as far as I should go, just too many weather torn roads after the winter and steep entrances and exits to go too low.

Umph wise, I still want a little more grunt, even if it is not much. Tough going from a long sled that just destroyed the highway miles with ease and very little effort due to a nice deep well of torque, to a lower power I4.

Thanks again.

 

[EVADE]

Welcome and congrats on your purchase!

 

[denim]

Welcome and congrats on your purchase!

(bluep5)

 

[JTF]

Welcome aboard. Like you, I went from a tuned up German sports sedan to a P5. You definitely landed on a great site and I'm sure you'll be making a few mods before long, as I can see you have that 'itch' already. ;-)

 

[denim]

Welcome aboard. Like you, I went from a tuned up German sports sedan to a P5. You definitely landed on a great site and I'm sure you'll be making a few mods before long, as I can see you have that 'itch' already. ;-)

Thanks Jeff.

Still learning the flow of the site, should I start a new topic for performance questions or is it kosher to keep it in this topic?

I ask because I own/run/admin/moderate a number of different sites and everyone flows differently.

 

[JTF]

You can probably keep them here for now, as they are 'general' questions. However, if you have anything specific, you'd be better served by starting an exclusive thread. I'm relatively new here too, so I'll differ to others responses. So how much quieter is your car on the highway now that you installed all that sound deadening material?

 

[denim]

You can probably keep them here for now, as they are 'general' questions. However, if you have anything specific, you'd be better served by starting an exclusive thread. I'm relatively new here too, so I'll differ to others responses. So how much quieter is your car on the highway now that you installed all that sound deadening material?

Much quieter! Right now the weak spot is the glass and engine noise coming in through the dash. I am used to a very smooth, big I6 that was naturally quiet, so the engine noise I am hearing in the Mazda maybe be a factor of perception. Sound deadening material went a little ways up the firewall inside the cabin, but I did not plan or want to remove the dash to tackle that area. I am pondering pulling the fender wells out of the front, and putting some dampening material there to increase front end sound suppression. But again, that is a little more then I think I want to go. I believe I added around 80-100lbs of material to the car. The difference in sound is really noticeable when you first get in the car. It is close to that isolating feeling of being in a sound proof room where there is near utter silence and you can talk at lower then normal levels and can hear little things like breathing. I need to repost the build log up here.

As for performance questions I was going to ask about springs and exhaust first. Exhaust wise, I want to stay with a conservative sound, not fart can ricer-like. I noticed on Gripmotorsports the HKS exhaust: http://www.gripmotorsports.com/pi~pn~hks_hi_power_rear_section_exhaust_system-1284.html .

I have used Borla or Remus exclusively since my first car, so I am venturing into new waters here. If there are other suggestions for exhaust that is not loud and around or better then the HKS pricing, I am all ears.

 

[JTF]

Yeah, I was afraid that sound deadening material was going to significantly add weight to the car. I guess that's the sacrifice of a quieter cabin though.

I'm running stock springs and exhaust but will probably upgrade those items when they're do for replacement. Like you, I can't agree more about a relatively conservative sounding exhaust (NOT 'fart can ricer-like'), per your quote. I'd be primarily interested in the Racing Beat the MP3 came with, but I believe I'd have to make a slight modification to one of the pipe's lengths, as it has a slightly longer wheelbase (or fender to fender measurement). I'm sure others will chime-in (hopefully).

 

[CTt3P5]

mmmmmm.....Remus, they make a very nice exhaust. If you want conservative check out the Racing Beat (aftermarket cat-back). This exhaust gets a lot of good reviews on here and is louder than stock yet not annoying or fart cannish....the only complaint I have read from some is that it is not loud enough.

For springs, one combo of choice is the Tokico HP (blues) and Eibach Pro-kit. You could go with Tokico Illuminas over the HPs if you were looking for adjustability. IIRC they are adjustable 7-ways. I'm on Tokico HP and Tein S-techs which is another popular combo here and you can see the ride height in my sig.....1.5"F and 1.8"R. If you haven't come across it yet, here's a nice little link with some more info on the various springs out there. http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?58798-**-Spring-Buyer-s-Guide-**

Jeff....in answer to your question, you can use the MP3 or MSP exhaust on the P5. As the sedan is longer than the hatch you will want a shop to cut-off 4-5" between the tip and the muffler and then have it re-welded back on. Should cost around $50 or so to have done. I got lucky and bought one that was already modified.

 

[denim]

Yeah, I was afraid that sound deadening material was going to significantly add weight to the car. I guess that's the sacrifice of a quieter cabin though.

I'm running stock springs and exhaust but will probably upgrade those items when they're do for replacement. Like you, I can't agree more about a relatively conservative sounding exhaust (NOT 'fart can ricer-like'), per your quote. I'd be primarily interested in the Racing Beat the MP3 came with, but I believe I'd have to make a slight modification to one of the pipe's lengths, as it has a slightly longer wheelbase (or fender to fender measurement). I'm sure others will chime-in (hopefully).

As for the weight, it is not noticeable as it is spread evenly across the entire car. My install is a little more then average as I went to SDS headquarters and installed it with the owner step by step all three layers. It really was worth it honestly!

Thanks for the Racing Beat suggestion, I will keep my eyes out for one that might be mod'ed.

 

[denim]

mmmmmm.....Remus, they make a very nice exhaust. If you want conservative check out the Racing Beat (aftermarket cat-back). This exhaust gets a lot of good reviews on here and is louder than stock yet not annoying or fart cannish....the only complaint I have read from some is that it is not loud enough.

For springs, one combo of choice is the Tokico HP (blues) and Eibach Pro-kit. You could go with Tokico Illuminas over the HPs if you were looking for adjustability. IIRC they are adjustable 7-ways. I'm on Tokico HP and Tein S-techs which is another popular combo here and you can see the ride height in my sig.....1.5"F and 1.8"R. If you haven't come across it yet, here's a nice little link with some more info on the various springs out there. http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?58798-**-Spring-Buyer-s-Guide-**

Jeff....in answer to your question, you can use the MP3 or MSP exhaust on the P5. As the sedan is longer than the hatch you will want a shop to cut-off 4-5" between the tip and the muffler and then have it re-welded back on. Should cost around $50 or so to have done. I got lucky and bought one that was already modified.

I really liked the Remus on the Mercedes, had a wonderfully relaxed sound at normal driving, and a nice refined 'ripsnort' at high rpm. As for the suspension, I think I am just going to start with springs and see how I like the adjustment suspension wise, then if I want to go farther I will look into struts.

Thank you for that link, checking out a few of those I had not seen before.

 

[CTt3P5]

You are welcome. Point taken on the springs....a lot of people opt to do both at once for two reasons....a)lowering springs will decrease the life of your stock struts (sure you knew) and b)they don't want to take it all apart months down the road to install struts.

As for the exhaust, here are some key pointers...just so you don't get confused in your search, because it's very east to.

2001 MP3, 2003 MSP (round tip) and 2003.5 MSP (oval tip) axle-backs will fit with the before mentioned modification to the piping. The mufflers are made by Racing Beat and will have Mazdaspeed etched on the side of the tip (03) or the top (03.5). They pop up time from time in the f/s section and prices can range from $80-$200.

There is a dealer accessory Mazdaspeed sport axle-back made specifically for the P5. It requires no modification to fit BUT the muffler section is made by Bosal. It can be bought new for approx $150.

Racing Beat makes a full cat-back aftermarket exhaust for the P5 that will require no modification. This is the one that gets all the rave. Retails for around $499.

 

[Foolish]

I also have the Tokico HP struts and Eibach Pro-kit P5 springs. Great set-up. Lower, more aggressive looking, but not so low that I'm afraid to drive on the crappy post-winter Northern VA roads. Progressive spring rates, so the car corners hard and flat, but still rides smooth enough that no one complains. We toted my son around on this setup when he was a new baby, and it didn't keep him awake!

For real handling magic, I paired that setup with an AWR rear sway bar and adjustable endlinks. This stiffens the rear up enough to actually slide around corners, which is great since we autocross the car and WWD (Wrong Wheel Drive) cars like this understeer otherwise!

Based on the MPG you're getting, I'm guessing your long commute is all highway, little traffic? Coming off of the Brabus, you'll likely be annoyed by how high the 2.0 revs in 5th gear at highway speed. That's also going to be a big source of your noise problem. There is a kit out there that gives the car a higher (lower?) 5th gear, allowing the car to run at lower RPM at highway speeds. I've been considering it for years, but haven't taken the time or spent the money yet.

Welcome to the forum. The P5 is great little car. :-D We're original owners of our '03.5, and I don't know if anything could ever convince my wife that she wants to replace it!

 

[denim]

You are welcome. Point taken on the springs....a lot of people opt to do both at once for two reasons....a)lowering springs will decrease the life of your stock struts (sure you knew) and b)they don't want to take it all apart months down the road to install struts.

As for the exhaust, here are some key pointers...just so you don't get confused in your search, because it's very east to.

2001 MP3, 2003 MSP (round tip) and 2003.5 MSP (oval tip) axle-backs will fit with the before mentioned modification to the piping. The mufflers are made by Racing Beat and will have Mazdaspeed etched on the side of the tip (03) or the top (03.5). They pop up time from time in the f/s section and prices can range from $80-$200.

There is a dealer accessory Mazdaspeed sport axle-back made specifically for the P5. It requires no modification to fit BUT the muffler section is made by Bosal. It can be bought new for approx $150.

Racing Beat makes a full cat-back aftermarket exhaust for the P5 that will require no modification. This is the one that gets all the rave. Retails for around $499.

Thanks again for the feedback. I kind of knew about the struts, guess I wanted to see if I could get by with out for a little while. I might have to wait and save up for them then. Exhaust wise, is the Racing Beat the preferred choice here? As in superior to an HKS for example? I ask because I would prefer not to modify. Really trying to K.I.S.S. this time around.

 

[denim]

I also have the Tokico HP struts and Eibach Pro-kit P5 springs. Great set-up. Lower, more aggressive looking, but not so low that I'm afraid to drive on the crappy post-winter Northern VA roads. Progressive spring rates, so the car corners hard and flat, but still rides smooth enough that no one complains. We toted my son around on this setup when he was a new baby, and it didn't keep him awake!

For real handling magic, I paired that setup with an AWR rear sway bar and adjustable endlinks. This stiffens the rear up enough to actually slide around corners, which is great since we autocross the car and WWD (Wrong Wheel Drive) cars like this understeer otherwise!

Based on the MPG you're getting, I'm guessing your long commute is all highway, little traffic? Coming off of the Brabus, you'll likely be annoyed by how high the 2.0 revs in 5th gear at highway speed. That's also going to be a big source of your noise problem. There is a kit out there that gives the car a higher (lower?) 5th gear, allowing the car to run at lower RPM at highway speeds. I've been considering it for years, but haven't taken the time or spent the money yet.

Welcome to the forum. The P5 is great little car. :-D We're original owners of our '03.5, and I don't know if anything could ever convince my wife that she wants to replace it!

Yes, it does rev much higher on the highway, would love to have a taller 5th gear for even better highway mpg. My commute is mostly highway, but much of it is under 20mph across the top end of 695, or wailing along at 85mph. The difference in the two cars is most noticeable above 50. The Brabus would just cruise at just shy of 90 and it would not feel much different then 50. Once closing in on triple digits, it would squat even more and roar along nicely, but the fuel gauge was almost moving visibly.

For the "P5", I have peaked at 34.4 and been as low as 29.4 mpg, but average is still 32.3mpg. For your Tokico's, are they the adjustable ones?

You have me thinking about the rear sway. My experience in the past with upgrading sway bars, is that it just stiffens the ride too much and the bushings all have to go to urethane and then it gets even harsher. The ride is already fairly taught.

 

[denim]

Has anyone used these plug wires? :https://www.amazon.com/dp/ (commissions earned)

I was thinking about grabbing new plugs and wires for a tiny upgrade.

 

[denim]

I was thinking of teaming those wires with these plugs: https://www.amazon.com/dp/ (commissions earned)

Has anyone used either?

 

[Foolish]

Wow. $9 a plug? Protege Garage has the stock plugs, $10 for the set! I've been looking, I need to do mine, too. As for the plug wires, is it just two 'cause these are coil-on-plug? Have you ever found a recommended interval for replacing them? There's nothing in the owner's manual, from what I saw yesterday.

As for my car, I've got the Tokico blues, which are non-adjustable, and came stock on the MSP. They work well for me. We're very happy with them and the Eibach Pro-Kit springs.