Mazda Ice Academy: Trial By Ice And Snow CX-5, CX-3 And MX-5

Do you think you tricked the car into doing something it doesn't know how to handle (and thus, Mazda should consider incorporating this into their software), or is it a tricky situation where Mazda is aware of and just let the computer performs accordingly when it reads braking and throttling at the same time?

No tricks here, as fdew pointed out, this technique worked in the '70's too. Open differentials work better on slippery surfaces with added brake drag. I believe Dave Coleman claimed the Mazda does not use individual braking as part of their AWD traction control (individual braking is apparently only for dynamic stability). I am not sure why unless it's because it performs so well without it and they didn't want the extra load on the AWD differential. I really don't know, best guess is K.I.S.S.

Don't under-estimate the stock CX-5's snow/ice ability! I have made fresh tracks 10 miles into the backcountry in conditions I know would be challenging or impossible in most other 4x4's and AWD's and this year I drove a mile in even worse conditions up a slushy forest service road that stopped two guys in a Toyota 4x4 dead in their tracks. They made quite a mess where they were forced to turn around, the CX-5 motored right through, no problem! Whenever I go further than a mile or so I bring alpine-touring skis with me and full winter camping gear on-board in the event I can't drive out. Never had a problem though. The lightness of the CX-5 and the relatively high tire width/weight ratio is a big advantage in many conditions (although skinnier tires would be better for some conditions not requiring flotation).

Where the CX-5 is a stand-out is where it matters most to most people from a safety standpoint, at higher speeds on winter roads it just maintains directional control better. Less chance for that "oh s***!" slide moment into oncoming traffic and much better control if you need to drive around an oncoming vehicle sliding in your lane. This is a huge winter advantage and I'm sure the FWD models with appropriate tires would perform similarly.
 
No tricks here, as fdew pointed out, this technique worked in the '70's too. Open differentials work better on slippery surfaces with added brake drag. I believe Dave Coleman claimed the Mazda does not use individual braking as part of their AWD traction control (individual braking is apparently only for dynamic stability). I am not sure why unless it's because it performs so well without it and they didn't want the extra load on the AWD differential. I really don't know, best guess is K.I.S.S.
Corvette uses it, as does the 370Z, exactly for that.
Don't under-estimate the stock CX-5's snow/ice ability! I have made fresh tracks 10 miles into the backcountry in conditions I know would be challenging or impossible in most other 4x4's and AWD's and this year I drove a mile in even worse conditions up a slushy forest service road that stopped two guys in a Toyota 4x4 dead in their tracks. They made quite a mess where they were forced to turn around, the CX-5 motored right through, no problem! Whenever I go further than a mile or so I bring alpine-touring skis with me and full winter camping gear on-board in the event I can't drive out. Never had a problem though. The lightness of the CX-5 and the relatively high tire width/weight ratio is a big advantage in many conditions (although skinnier tires would be better for some conditions not requiring flotation).

Where the CX-5 is a stand-out is where it matters most to most people from a safety standpoint, at higher speeds on winter roads it just maintains directional control better. Less chance for that "oh s***!" slide moment into oncoming traffic and much better control if you need to drive around an oncoming vehicle sliding in your lane. This is a huge winter advantage and I'm sure the FWD models with appropriate tires would perform similarly.

Yeah, I was annoyed at how few SUV's have all-time AWD.
 
I was impressed to see the openness about the system... info on Mazda's system has been difficult to find and substantiate. Even Dave admitted they weren't fully aware of the systems capabilities when CX-5 first went on sale. Most articles myself and others had previously found were about the old system. Really glad to see them promoting the system now.

As per that latest article...interesting to hear that Mazda is going after Subaru.



Wow, listening to Dave Coleman explaining about the AWD gave me nerdgasm :)

Seriously, unless the competitors can showcase their innovation/design with this much research and thoughts (unlikely, as demonstrated by the Subaru and CR-V slipping back down the hill), Mazda won hand down. Dave is totally right that it's hard to prove how efficient the system is when the system itself try to prevent the symptoms before they surface.
 
Does my old 5.0L '96 Explorer count? :) Fully mechanical with slow viscous coupling... a full time inefficient AWD beast... same Borg Warner unit used in the old GMC Typhoon & Cyclones

Haha, but when I went SUV shopping in 2015, I wasn't looking at 20 year old project vehicles.
 

These Russian videos would be a lot better if I understood Russian!

My local ski area (where my cabin is located) just made the National Geographic's 10 best kept secret ski towns!

http://adventure.nationalgeographic...nt-baker-glacier-washington_74856_600x450.jpg

Sheesh! It's no longer a well kept secret. Oh well, I've probably tracked more than my fair share of untracked powder. Some of you CX-5 owners/skiers/boarders should take a road trip so you can see what steep and deep really means! Oh, and when you come, please follow the advice that the piece concludes with:

In the snow-smothered year of 1999, Baker actually netted 1,140 inches of snow, a world record. In other words, if youre driving to Glacier and Baker make sure your cars got a shovel.
 
The Russian videos do not reveal any new info. It was obvious that the reviewers didn't bother to crack-open the owner's manual and didn't have answers for few of their own questions. All was about fun of hard driving in snow. On stock tires, no less. So they managed to overheat the rear coupling a couple of times. Hardly shocking, providing the way they drove, but they didn't complain about it too much either.
We just came back from ski resort north of Toronto. I won a bet with the security guard that CX-5 would climb a particular snowy hill. We then drove some more around the area, and I really enjoyed how the car handled. This AWD, coupled with good winter tires, is something!
 
Ok I confess....
Lived in New England all my life and never had snow tires....the last snowstorm we had I almost lost it around a tight left hand turn and I would have been crushed by a telephone pole that naturally was positioned at the worst location..had my OEM 19" "All Season" Toyo's on...
Bit the bullet after following your comments on threads about winter driving and about how much the composition and tread patterns on winter tires have changed for the better..
Bought 17" Koenig Oversteers with 225-65-R17 Blizzak DM-V1's on them....
What a difference!
Went out last night in 2-3 inches of fresh fallen snow for a joy ride...
Great traction, ride, cornering, and just had a blast having fun in this car that drives and handles like a big cat...!!
You guys are absolutely right..anyone driving on "All Season" tires in areas that have significant snowfalls are putting themselves at risk big time...
Thanks for the sizing tips as well...the 17's drive great...may consider going to either a smaller 18 for Summer Tires or at least a lighter 19" wheel...
 
Mike: Do you contract with someone to plow your driveway or do you use a snow blower?

My driveway is short and steep and comes off a private road in my gated community which has a snowplow. The road maintenance guys are right on top of keeping the roads plowed every time it snows. Most driveways are short and each member is responsible for maintaining their own driveways. The plows leave the typical wall of snow blocking everyone's driveway. After the most extreme dumps, if the snow is heavy (and it typically is at that elevation), I shovel a partial path through the wall of compacted snow to avoid undercarriage damage (like ripping the muffler or under-fairings off). When I used the Volvo S80 (FWD) I would also shovel a path up my steep driveway so I could park next to the entry stairs. But the CX-5 is so good in this stuff I just motor right up and plow a furrow. Then I shovel a foot path the 15 feet to the entry porch that is one snow shovel wide.

I've never had trouble in my own driveway because it angles off the road at a favorable angle, if it's particularly deep and difficult, I can hit it at 15 mph, foot on throttle, and root right up. And of course it backs down through the same path without trouble. Even after the old snow has melted and re-frozen the CX-5 just plain works.
 
Ok I confess....
Lived in New England all my life and never had snow tires....the last snowstorm we had I almost lost it around a tight left hand turn and I would have been crushed by a telephone pole that naturally was positioned at the worst location..had my OEM 19" "All Season" Toyo's on...

Ouch! A good friend of mine died on a cold wet winter night by sliding the drivers door of his 1969 Mach I Mustang into a telephone pole. There was no snow/ice but he would still be with us today if he had forked out a few bucks for winter tires. Winter tires work better whenever it's cold.

Bit the bullet after following your comments on threads about winter driving and about how much the composition and tread patterns on winter tires have changed for the better..
Bought 17" Koenig Oversteers with 225-65-R17 Blizzak DM-V1's on them....
What a difference!

Good for you and it sounds like you have seen the light!


Went out last night in 2-3 inches of fresh fallen snow for a joy ride...
Great traction, ride, cornering, and just had a blast having fun in this car that drives and handles like a big cat...!!
You guys are absolutely right..anyone driving on "All Season" tires in areas that have significant snowfalls are putting themselves at risk big time...
Thanks for the sizing tips as well...the 17's drive great...may consider going to either a smaller 18 for Summer Tires or at least a lighter 19" wheel...

Absolutely! You know, every time I hear someone say how much they hate driving in the winter snow/ice, I always ask them the same simple question: "Do you have winter tires?".

The answer is always the same and I don't need to tell you what it is! People with winter tires invariably look forward to driving in the winter wonderland.
 
Some shots and angles I hadn't previously seen in this video

[video]http://www.mazdausamedia.com/vehicles?item=1111#assets_68:1603[/video]

That's pretty cool, the first half is boring, the good stuff comparing the CX-5 to the Subie doesn't start until the 3:30 mark.

The original video produced from these cuts showed the CX-5 with a little advantage (driver stopped right in the tire depression instead of on the steeper backside like some of the other vehicles). However, this video contains clips with the different vehicles stopping in all different positions and every time the CX-5 outperformed the Subaru (and all other cars there).

If I had a dollar for every time I heard someone with no experience repeat the "common knowledge" claim that Subaru's have the most capable AWD for winter driving I could get really drunk and be just like them! (friday)Subie, Subie, Subie!

If something is repeated often enough it almost becomes true. But that's not going to help you enter fast moving traffic safely from a slippery stop sign!
 
I've always had the impression that winter tires are far more important than AWD, but seeing how the Subaru spinning only the front wheels with winter tires couldn't get pass that hill where the CX-5 AWD can easily powered through, I'm thinking AWD should get a little more credit :) Or maybe a FWD with winter tires could probably get over that hill, too, since the AWD in the Subaru was basically disabled for that situation and thus it's not as good as a FWD?
 
Just returned from a trip to the mountains. Now, all except side forest roads were at most a little wet if not completely dry and temps were in the 50s in the coldest area (yes, spring conditions now in California). Because I have all-season tires on I did not venture too far off bare pavement. A road I decided not to follow through was covered in snow that had been refrozen few times and was hard in mornings, but not packed and would give way when stepped on, become softer by the afternoon. There were deep grooves made by pickup trucks which passed there before. I was concerned that I'd damage the underbody or that I'll get stuck.
Even if I had proper rubber installed I would still be concerned about front bumper or underbody damage from the hard snow. What do you snow experts do in these cases? How do you handle the low approach angle in the front (even with no snow)?
 
There were deep grooves made by pickup trucks which passed there before. I was concerned that I'd damage the underbody or that I'll get stuck.
Even if I had proper rubber installed I would still be concerned about front bumper or underbody damage from the hard snow. What do you snow experts do in these cases? How do you handle the low approach angle in the front (even with no snow)?

I've driven in a lot of situations dragging on snow, ice and even rock with no significant underbody damage. just scrapes. Just use common sense, damage is most likely to happen when going too fast and getting a vertical motion which is more damaging than a sliding motion.

The front chin spoiler hits rather easily when the suspension compresses, this is generally from going too fast. It has a certain amount of flexibility and doesn't tend to snag so just go slow and use good wheel placement and it's really not much (if any) of a limitation vs. the rest of the car. I have scrapes on the bottom of the chin spoiler but they are not visible unless you put your head on the ground and look up. Never broken a fog light unlike my Volvo S80 which would crack fog lenses anytime the chin of the spoiler rubbed on anything hard.
 
I've always had the impression that winter tires are far more important than AWD, but seeing how the Subaru spinning only the front wheels with winter tires couldn't get pass that hill where the CX-5 AWD can easily powered through, I'm thinking AWD should get a little more credit :)

That's wrong headed thinking. If all of the AWD's had all season radials, none of them could have made it from a standing start. But an AWD with all season radials or a FWD with winter tires could easily navigate that hill as long as neither of them came to a complete stop. Then, cresting the hill, the FWD with winter tires would be far superior to the AWD with all season radials.

In the snow and ice, a FWD with winter tires will always be far superior to any AWD with all season radials.
 
What I want to know is what situations would a FWD CX-5 (or any CUV) fail with snow tires that an AWD with either all season or snow tires would succeed.

The only relevant video I've found is this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfuE00qdhLA

Which basically showed to me that yes, most FWD cars will be just fine with winter tires except in the most extreme conditions.
 
What I want to know is what situations would a FWD CX-5 (or any CUV) fail with snow tires that an AWD with either all season or snow tires would succeed.

The only relevant video I've found is this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfuE00qdhLA

Which basically showed to me that yes, most FWD cars will be just fine with winter tires except in the most extreme conditions.


Put snows on AWD model and it would have made it to the top in that video. Hill scenarios with the right tires are where AWD is going to shine the most. I've had situations towing a snowmobile trailer in snow that due to weight distribution would not have done a FWD vehicle any favors.
 
That's wrong headed thinking. If all of the AWD's had all season radials, none of them could have made it from a standing start. But an AWD with all season radials or a FWD with winter tires could easily navigate that hill as long as neither of them came to a complete stop. Then, cresting the hill, the FWD with winter tires would be far superior to the AWD with all season radials.

In the snow and ice, a FWD with winter tires will always be far superior to any AWD with all season radials.

I think you misread my question, I've only mentioned winter tires through out to make AWD/FWD the only variable. Just wondering if I could have purchased a FWD CX-5 with winter tires and save some MPG :)
 
What I want to know is what situations would a FWD CX-5 (or any CUV) fail with snow tires that an AWD with either all season or snow tires would succeed.

The only relevant video I've found is this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfuE00qdhLA

Which basically showed to me that yes, most FWD cars will be just fine with winter tires except in the most extreme conditions.

Summer tires are too different from winter tires. The video could have been more meaningful comparing all-season vs winter tires. According to this video, all-season fares a little better than summer:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/videoDisplay.jsp?ttid=116
http://www.tirerack.com/videos/index.jsp?video=23
 
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