I am thinking of buying a Mazda6S for my wife, but some people dyno their car stock at only 160's whp. If the car makes 220 bhp, should it dyno at around 180 whp assuming a 17% drive train loss? Mazda is famous for doing this so I am wondering if the Mazda6S is another one? Thanks
mazda 6 S overrrated?
- Thread starter 03MSPRO
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jersey_emt
Member
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- 04 MSM #1089
Were the 160WHP dynos from a auto or manual? Autos will dyno lower.
I thought I seen someone's dyno posted somewhere on the board that made 178WHP. I believe it was stock too. That is still not very high and would be nearly a 20% drivetrain loss if the actual flywheel HP is 220. If they are rated correctly, the 6s with a manual should be putting ~185-190 HP to the wheels.
I'd much rather have them underate an engine like GM does for the LS1. They were rated at 320HP and most stock LS1's put 300-310 to the wheels with some up to 320. 30-50 extra HP will make customers very happy
I'd much rather have them underate an engine like GM does for the LS1. They were rated at 320HP and most stock LS1's put 300-310 to the wheels with some up to 320. 30-50 extra HP will make customers very happy
GM is also famous for underrating, which is fine with meBig_Red_1 said:I thought I seen someone's dyno posted somewhere on the board that made 178WHP. I believe it was stock too. That is still not very high and would be nearly a 20% drivetrain loss if the actual flywheel HP is 220. If they are rated correctly, the 6s with a manual should be putting ~185-190 HP to the wheels.
I'd much rather have them underate an engine like GM does for the LS1. They were rated at 320HP and most stock LS1's put 300-310 to the wheels with some up to 320. 30-50 extra HP will make customers very happy
Ford is also famous for overrating. Now that Ford controls Mazda, we see the same thing.
To be honest, the only thing I like about the Mazda6 is the looks, but I might consider the Altima V6 (250 bhp) or Accord V6 EX (bhp 240).
Agreed....the 6S is dead sexxy! But it's a pretty weak six compared to the competition. Anyone know if the 6 engine is a new design or not?03MSPRO said:GM is also famous for underrating, which is fine with me
Ford is also famous for overrating. Now that Ford controls Mazda, we see the same thing.
To be honest, the only thing I like about the Mazda6 is the looks, but I might consider the Altima V6 (250 bhp) or Accord V6 EX (bhp 240).
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- MP5T / 944
Numbers from the manufacturer always seem to be right out to lunch. There is no standard, most will rate the BHP on the engine. The best way is to do your own test drive to see what it's like yourself...
That's why I bought my P5!!
That's why I bought my P5!!
Ford overrated 1 car...the 99 Cobra, and it wasn't their fault, it was a manufacturing defect in the production models. Since then, most Ford cars have been underrated, ie Mach 1, 03+ Cobra, GT. Get your facts straight. Whatever screwed up the 6s' engine was Mazda's doing. The Lincoln LS and Jag X-Type using the same blocks dont have that problem.
Just a thread I found doing a search.
176WHP & 172TQ.....not that bad I guess. It looks like the 20% loss is about right unless the engine really is overated.
http://protege5.com/vbb230/showthread.php?t=12098&highlight=WHP
176WHP & 172TQ.....not that bad I guess. It looks like the 20% loss is about right unless the engine really is overated.
http://protege5.com/vbb230/showthread.php?t=12098&highlight=WHP
A guy at work that has been racing Fords for longer than you have been alive told me that GM always has underrated their cars while Ford overrates them. I don't know about either GM or Ford for sure. I am telling what someone told me. All I know is that Mazda has overrated a few cars and that Ford controls Mazda. That is a fact!SVTJayC said:
Also, I don't really care to know much about Ford beacuse I doubt I will ver buy one, GM maybe.
ashutoshsm
Member
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- 2003 Mazda 6i MT
Here's wishing all you HP-queens a happy life. Especially those considering an Altima or Accord merely for the 20 more HP.
As for drivetrain losses, 17-20% is the average/ballpark value. BMW is famous for low-loss drivetrains, and they're in the 15% range. I wouldn't be surprised if some other makes have greater losses thn the MT 6s and 6i (which dynos in the mid 130s, also 15-17%).
Also, I hope you folks realise that there is an upper limit on FWD HP and drivability. Torque steer is your enemy. And the Altima and Maximaare plagued with heavy torque steer. The Acura TL is not quite as terrible, but that's because they've deadened the steering. That car is a freeway crusing nightmare, its so twitchy.
As for drivetrain losses, 17-20% is the average/ballpark value. BMW is famous for low-loss drivetrains, and they're in the 15% range. I wouldn't be surprised if some other makes have greater losses thn the MT 6s and 6i (which dynos in the mid 130s, also 15-17%).
Also, I hope you folks realise that there is an upper limit on FWD HP and drivability. Torque steer is your enemy. And the Altima and Maximaare plagued with heavy torque steer. The Acura TL is not quite as terrible, but that's because they've deadened the steering. That car is a freeway crusing nightmare, its so twitchy.
I agree about the torque steer...it scares the s*** outta ya until you get used to it. My father had a LeBaron GTS (2-liter turbo) and that thing sawwed away once you got on boost.
Kinda off-topic, but anyone aware of high-HP Skyline's having torque steer issues? Not sure how it splits the torque, but enough's gotta be going to the front end.
Kinda off-topic, but anyone aware of high-HP Skyline's having torque steer issues? Not sure how it splits the torque, but enough's gotta be going to the front end.
I test drove the Altima, and the way the 6 handles is much better. The 6 is more responsive, it felt like it went were you told it too. The Altima is geared more towards the luxury. Both are nice cars though, I just prefered the handling over the 25hp difference. But that is just me.....
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- MP5T / 944
Holy ******* attitude (braindeadSVTJayC said:
Was that an order?? "Major Asshole??"
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- MP5T / 944
No I Turboed it to waste people with big heavy rear wheel drive cars...03MSPRO said:Is that why you had to turbo it?
just think about it for a second....average person will go off what you or a dealer tell then and havn't a clue what a dyno is so saying a v6 has 180 hp will turn them off so fast.....yeah and the honduh boys would pick jun at you more...RobMP5 said:
and why altima...new black maxima is how you go if you have to have so many ponies and luxury (drive)
6 is not overrated...just mis understood nobody knows what it is exactly...luxury/sports.... you don't see them alot so each sighting is special for those non 6 owners....specialy when they have cai and exhaust done(wow) (wow) (wow)
If Ford "Always underrated their cars" don't you think someone would have caught on by now?? I mean, the 99 Cobra made about 30 less HP than it was supposed to and people went nuts...owners, dealers, mags, etc. If you put something false in print, you can be sued for fraud. To avoid this in the case of the Cobra, Ford replaced the defective intake on every one free of charge. This happened more recently with Mazda's RX-8, in which they had to give owners cash back becasue they overrated the car. Currently Cobras are "rated" at 390, and some have been dynoed out of the box as putting that much down to the wheels. Same can be said for Mach 1's. I don't hear these shaky (and yes, 20% is shaky) numbers coming from X-Type, LS, Mondeo, or hell, even Taurus drivers. Does the 6 not use the MTX-75 transmission? I would assume the problem was on the side of the dyno, but these numbers have been around since the car came out, 172 at the wheels seems to be the most common. That is 48hp lost in the drivetrain!?!? Or 22% The math just doesn't add up.
