MAM crank options...(destroker)

I

Installshield 2

Gothenburg Superiority
Anyone interested or getting started in an FS build, you must check this out...

Mental Addiction Motorsports will be releasing a made to order bottom end assembly (rods/pistons/forged crank/and all the bearings, caps, washers, etc.) for under 2,000...and the crank alone will not be much over $1,000...

the crank is made to order, and appears to be able to be set all the way up to 94mm of stroke...obviously not what we want...but the only way to get a rod ratio of 1.60 or higher (9,000rpm for those of you confused) is with one of these cranks in an 87-88mm variety...2mm overbore on the cylinders and you are right back to 2.0L roughly...all for relatively cheap...some custom cranks can run upwards of $5k...

here is the thread...we can discuss this stuff in here, but questions for MAM should be posted in that thread...at least get in there and throw something around...I was the only NA guy in there, and I didn't find it until like page 7 or something...its a good read, just remember most of what everyone besides me is talking about is advantageous only to FI...

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123625784
 
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what about the 1.8 crank with custom rods? you'd be looking at a rod ratio of 1.7+ but you'll only get 1.94L, but who cares - 10k rpm!!!

why anyone, even FI guys, would want more stroke on our engines is beyond me...
 
well the MAM one with definately be stronger...there is some info of the stock forged steel used for the FS/FP cranks...and I vaguely remember from years ago that the FP has a different crank girdle and support setup, that would make the swap difficult, and overall weakens the entire bottom end...that is up for debate though, I have never seen the inside of the FP...

Sleeper, they are stroking the engine...and keeping the same rod ratio with longer rods...so it will still rev fine to around 7,000 rpm or so, like stock (that won't be an issue anyway with how strong the parts are)...and brings displacement a little above 2.1L if you go with the 94mm crank...Which is huge for a turbo...since the turbo is fully taking on the FSs breathing problems by means of cramming air in...all it does it allows the turbo to cram more air in...more air in, more power...blah blah blah, we know the FI drill...

but yeah, an FP (if it itself is strong enough) would give an even better rod ratio...but would totally kill lowend torque, especially once you get the big cams for the high rpm...I doubt it would be streetable if you were attempting 9500+rpm...but with 88mm of stroke, you can keep some of the FS stock torque, and redline at like 8500-9000rpm, and probably be fine with like a 1000-1100 rpm idle...haha, it would kick ass...
 
Thanx INST2... So if I understand if I wanna go NA, the ultimate solution is to order a custom 87mm crank by MAM with custom rods (who are going to build a LIGHT and strong rod for an NA FS????) and do a 2mm overbore (that mean 2mm on each cylinders right? I heard somewhere that on the FS the safest overbore is 1mm)? With custom CP 11.0:1 pistons... Ishhh $$$$$

Waiting for the reply of the NA God (Inst2) ;)
 
Spicy Mchaggis had 2mm overbore and never ran into block problems from what I remember...

but safe as far as what? that pretty much puts the block at the end of its service limit, but with huge revs and tons of compression, you pretty much put everything at the end of its service limit...high performance engines pretty much eventually break and need rebuilt entirely...but you can still get 100k out of them if you know how to drive...

Also, consider that this is NA...with 20psi of boost 2mm overbore'd will be a nightmare most likely...We will not be making close to the cylinder pressures that they will...the only thing we need to worry about, as far as the bottom end...is oil, water, and lots of speed...the benefits of an 85mm cylinder bore are far higher than the cons of our short block's design...
 
The stroker setup that we will be offering as an off the shelf piece will be the following:
3.700 stroke(94mm)
5.500 H-beam rod with ARP2000 bolts
Wiseco 9.5 CR forged pistons.
This setup will bring the following specs:
2071cc
1.486 rod ratio

We also offer custom rod lengths and crank stroke at an additional cost.. Some people like to see 1.6 rod ratio's and that is considered a great number to be at engineering wise. However if you do not have a good flowing head,intake and cams to support the high rev's it's not the number you want.
Here is a combo that supports the 1.6 rod ratio you guys want to see as well as keeping alittle displacement.

3.465" stroke(88mm)
5.500 H-beam rod
11.0 CR ,84.53mm bore(.060 over)
This would give you NA junkies a 1975cc displacement and a 1.587 rod ratio.
We have 1 spot open for a custom crank at no extra cost. I would offer a $100($1000 shipped) discount off the sale price to an NA guy looking at doing this.
 
nice...any idea how much the extra cost is after this first one?...I have a built engine I haven't even gotten to use yet because of my lack of a new computer...But its with the stock crank, and there are a number of people in town that I could sell it to if I felt like doing this over again...

also, are the CR's custom too? I would like something north of 12:1...
 
Installshield 2 said:
nice...any idea how much the extra cost is after this first one?...I have a built engine I haven't even gotten to use yet because of my lack of a new computer...But its with the stock crank, and there are a number of people in town that I could sell it to if I felt like doing this over again...

also, are the CR's custom too? I would like something north of 12:1...
Click to expand...

After the first 5 come in, they will be $1400. If I order in quanity(same stroke) the price comes down. Right now they are offering a cheaper price since we are doing several.
We can do whatever CR you want. The cost does not increase on the pistons.
 
oh awesome..

Any comments yet on the weight of the crank? come to think of it, the weight of the rods and pistons too?

the crank is 4340 forged steel right? are the H-beams the same? I am assuming aluminum pistons then...do you have contacts with even lighter forged aluminum rods or anything? Just checking, the crank weight savings are going to be so high that lighter rods will get to the point where it probably would barely idle (no intertia)..haha...
 
Wow so much to take in. I have a spare motor that I need to re-build and could spend up to $1600. so many choices.

(The wife would kill me for spending that much though)
 
so for us what do we want because i am not really up to par on this forsay but i am definately interested in buying this. I have the money and as i am sure most people are interested. Just like installshield probably does too but this seems to be the best bang for my buck going n/a style. I am not sure what all this means. I understand that we get higher rpms and higher compression but how much more added hp will there be and would a microtech own this setup, increase the gains to maximize the performance of my vehicle?
 
bubba, this will take a lot of work...Power numbers will depend on a lot of other things than just the crank and revs...revs are part of NA power from a small engine, and breathing is the other...the work you put into the head is really going to make or break it...the bottom end is the easy part...you get a crank like this, or longer rods with new pistons and you are pretty much set other than odds and ends...the head is an entirely different beast where you need the most help...
 
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If you guys want the NA setup to work (and plan on spending the money for the block), I would highly suggest reground cams, serious head porting, and intake porting (along with your full exhaust that I am sure you have). More RPMs doesn not mean more power, unless you help out the breathing.

It is not so much the built block as it is the combo of the parts as a whole. If you totally ported the head, did the cams, etc. and used a stock block, you would not get the power that you will with the MAM block.
 
65racecoupe said:
If you guys want the NA setup to work (and plan on spending the money for the block), I would highly suggest reground cams, serious head porting, and intake porting (along with your full exhaust that I am sure you have). More RPMs doesn not mean more power, unless you help out the breathing.

It is not so much the built block as it is the combo of the parts as a whole. If you totally ported the head, did the cams, etc. and used a stock block, you would not get the power that you will with the MAM block.[/QUOTE


Hey thats a good idea. I bet those guys didn't think of that stuff.(freak)
Click to expand...
 
65racecoupe said:
If you guys want the NA setup to work (and plan on spending the money for the block), I would highly suggest reground cams, serious head porting, and intake porting (along with your full exhaust that I am sure you have). More RPMs doesn not mean more power, unless you help out the breathing.

It is not so much the built block as it is the combo of the parts as a whole. If you totally ported the head, did the cams, etc. and used a stock block, you would not get the power that you will with the MAM block.
Click to expand...

my rough plan is a MAM built motor with the stroker kit for N/A with the J Spec cam, so far. I'm still considering a piggy back engine management. There is so much to learn and I know so little.
 
BlkZoomZoom said:
65racecoupe said:
If you guys want the NA setup to work (and plan on spending the money for the block), I would highly suggest reground cams, serious head porting, and intake porting (along with your full exhaust that I am sure you have). More RPMs doesn not mean more power, unless you help out the breathing.

It is not so much the built block as it is the combo of the parts as a whole. If you totally ported the head, did the cams, etc. and used a stock block, you would not get the power that you will with the MAM block.[/QUOTE


Hey thats a good idea. I bet those guys didn't think of that stuff.(freak)
Click to expand...

You add nothing to 99 percent of the posts that you are in. (boom07)
Click to expand...
 
rednecks_r_us said:
my rough plan is a MAM built motor with the stroker kit for N/A with the J Spec cam, so far. I'm still considering a piggy back engine management. There is so much to learn and I know so little.
Click to expand...

I'm NO NA guru, but i'm sure Instl2 ant Twilight will approve this:

The ZE cam(s) will not, and by far, take advantage at all of the 8700 or so redline this built motor will permit. They are meant for the stock FS, with a 7000 rpm redline. And also, a piggy-back won't cut it. You will STILL have the 6500 rpm redline of the base FS wich you don't want. You want to take advantage of such a beast and you WILL need:

- Proper head porting (read professionally done agressive job).

- Proper race-spec 3-angle valve work.

- Eibach EVS valve springs (stock will float) and proper OEM shims.

- Very agressive custom cams. Maybe Twilight and Inst2 have idea about specs. AWR sells blank cams, just send the blanks to Crower (or anyone who grind cams) to your specs.

- Adjustable cam gears.

- FULL Standalone EMS like Microtech LT-8 or AEM EMS to remove stock limiter and have FULL control of fuel/timing.

- Maybe upgrading the fuel pump and injectors? Again, Inst2 and Twilight confirm this please because I really don't know.

- AWR header. By far the only one on the market who can support such a motor because used on 8500+++ rpm 260hp World Challenge Proteg's.

- 2.4 or more mandrel-bent exhaust with (preferably) no cat or a high-flow one.

- At least a ported, VTCS-removed intake manifold with a Injen or K&N CAI. Unless they are proof of certain NA gains on the single-runner manifold, stay with the original or better, have a custom made ITB setup made for you. And call me so I can pick up one too lol!

Please Inst2 and Twilight feel free to correct me... I want that destroker built motor. Badly.

Hope I helped you Redneck.
 
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