Is this engine mount going out?

[katapaltes]

I decided to take a look at the passenger side mount on my car after reading all the posts here about engine mounts. I think I see a couple cracks in mine, and I've included two pics. They were taken from the fender side and the engine side, respectively. Can someone tell me if they need to be replaced? Also, what jack is typically used to lift the engine? I don't have a floor jack, and it's not worth it to me to buy one just for this. Would the car jack used to change the tire be *completely* inappropriate? The car is displaying no symptoms typical of bad mounts from what I've read, and I don't drive too crazy and the car is garaged 99.5% of the time. But I imagine that replacing this one might help the other three (harder-to-replace) ones last longer. Also, when people use a proper floor jack to lift the engine, what do they put the jack under? The oil pan? At this point I've replaced one door lock actuator and both coil packs and that's pretty much it. Any advice is appreciated.

 

[lowlevel]

I tend to think that if one is going the other ones are probably going too... if you put on one new one, its going to be subjected to more than normal stress due to the three worn ones not also being replaced. I think most people just ignore worn mounts until they start clunking... if they seem fine just drive it as is.

 

[Inside]

Um that mount is already beyond gone, isn't it?

If that's the right side mount, that's what it looked like after I took it out this weekend:

It's supposed to look like mount in this post:
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/show...rand-New-Passenger-Side-Motor-Mount-Stock-OEM

Basically: It's not supposed to have that big ass tear on top!!

Edit: Look at 2:30 in this video for a better idea of what it needs to look like. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCbtluiDZxQ

 

[pcb]

I don't have a floor jack, and it's not worth it to me to buy one just for this. Would the car jack used to change the tire be *completely* inappropriate?

No,.. that's all I used to support the engine when I did my T-belt (same mount was removed). There's not much weight there because there is three other mounts supporting the engine.

Also, when people use a proper floor jack to lift the engine, what do they put the jack under? The oil pan?

I wasn't comfortable pushing on the oil pan but found a good spot at the bottom kinda under the power steering pump, it's close to the rad. (had to remove a splash shield though.)

the other three (harder-to-replace) ones ,...

The only hard one to replace is the rear one (and that one's a huge PITA) (but you probably need to get under your car for the other two mounts though)

The car is displaying no symptoms typical of bad mounts from what I've read, and I don't drive too crazy and the car is garaged 99.5% of the time.

I'm gonna agree with lowlevel and say wait for symptoms and put your time effort and money towards things like plugs, wires, filters, drive belts, fluid changes etc.

As far as I know bad engine mounts don't wreck anything,.. they just irritate the hell out of you till you have to replace them.

 

[pcb]

Um that mount is already beyond gone, isn't it?

It depends on where you're from,...
This is my professionally refurbished front engine mount.

You and the OP are both from Texas where cars last for 700 years.

If I had either of your cars , I would seriously consider replacing the mounts.

Lowlevel and I are more worried about when it's time to take our cars out behind the shed and shoot it.

 

[lowlevel]

Lowlevel and I are more worried about when it's time to take our cars out behind the shed and shoot it.

Did that twice... it's still running!

 

[rit14623]

I decided to take a look at the passenger side mount on my car after reading all the posts here about engine mounts. I think I see a couple cracks in mine, and I've included two pics. They were taken from the fender side and the engine side, respectively. Can someone tell me if they need to be replaced? Also, what jack is typically used to lift the engine? I don't have a floor jack, and it's not worth it to me to buy one just for this. Would the car jack used to change the tire be *completely* inappropriate? The car is displaying no symptoms typical of bad mounts from what I've read, and I don't drive too crazy and the car is garaged 99.5% of the time. But I imagine that replacing this one might help the other three (harder-to-replace) ones last longer. Also, when people use a proper floor jack to lift the engine, what do they put the jack under? The oil pan? At this point I've replaced one door lock actuator and both coil packs and that's pretty much it. Any advice is appreciated.

You could use a scissor jack under the engine but it would be difficult to crank the jack to get it to lift. You can try it let us know how it goes.
I used a floor jack and lifted the engine at a location under the engine near where the engine and transmission meet.
If you are going to be a grease monkey, then it would be an investment to get a floor jack.

 

[katapaltes]

Basically: It's not supposed to have that big ass tear on top!!
Edit: Look at 2:30 in this video for a better idea of what it needs to look like. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCbtluiDZxQ

That's what I thought at first, but I'm not so sure. There is so much space in that tear on top that I don't think it was ever really "solid." It seems like that was always meant to break away, and the rubber part of the mount was only ever solid in the bottom half (not on the top). There's simply so dang much space in the top where that tear is... And it makes sense that mainly/only the bottom needs to be solid because the weight of the engine is pushing down, not up, obviously. That's just a guess on my part, though.

From your (very helpful) pic, I can now tell that my mount is cracked at least partially. I'll probably let it ride for now per pcb and lowlevel, and I will buy a floor jack later per rit14623. They're not as expensive as I'd feared. Oh, and "big-ass" is hyphenated. C'mon man, this is protege5.com! We simply must have standards!

It depends on where you're from,...
This is my professionally refurbished front engine mount.

You and the OP are both from Texas where cars last for 700 years.

That's a true story (about Texas). As Inside will tell you, we only put salt on our margaritas, not on our roads. I mention Texas in my post in my comment at the bottom of this 2013 review (yes, 2013, and worth reading if you never have) of the P5: http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/02/review-2003-mazda-protege5/

And pcb, never, ever post a photo like that again - at least not when I'm drinking a Coke in front of my computer screen.

Thanks for all the advice, guys. I'm looking at learning a bit more about my car and working on it, instead of just taking it for granted.

 

[ehsande]

We bought a 2003 Protege5 with ~83,000 miles on it and had belts, hoses and other stuff replaced on it. Turned out the passenger side motor mount was broken; the mechanic held it up to me in 2 pieces! Apparently it needs to be removed to put the new timing belt on so it was "only" another ~$140 with no extra labor.

 

[Inside]

It depends on where you're from,...
This is my professionally refurbished front engine mount.

<Picture>

Jesus christ dude.

Do you need $25 for an aftermarket mount? I'll gladly paypal you some money.

That's what I thought at first, but I'm not so sure. There is so much space in that tear on top that I don't think it was ever really "solid."

I've stared at the mount some more and I can't tell if that big gap on the top is supposed to be there or not. My reasoning for that is that it doesn't make sense for there to be no material there - every time your engine hops up, there's really not much there to hold it down other than the bit of rubber on the bottom.

They're not as expensive as I'd feared. Oh, and "big-ass" is hyphenated. C'mon man, this is protege5.com! We simply must have standards!

Per suggestion of another forum member, I bought https://www.amazon.com/dp/ (commissions earned) set of mounts. I've replaced the passenger and transmission side mount. Aaaalmost got the front mount done, but my friend striped the nut holding the bolt that connects the engine to the mount so I'm waiting to pick up a replacement nut before I tackle that one. I'm also going to order an OEM rear mount since I don't want to ever replace that one as long as I own the vehicle. I think I may pay someone to do it for me.


Here's my suggestion for you: buy an engine support beam. The official mazda workshop manual even says to use it for that. The use is a bit limited, but you can always sell it to someone if you're sure you'll never use it again. This one on harbor freight occasionally goes on sale for $50. I used a friend's engine hoist to hold everything in place and it made life fantastically easy -- much easier than if we'd used a jack and a piece of wood.

That's a true story (about Texas). As Inside will tell you, we only put salt on our margaritas, not on our roads.

You forgot that we also put it on Dos Equis!

I mention Texas in my post in my comment at the bottom of this 2013 review (yes, 2013, and worth reading if you never have) of the P5: http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/02/review-2003-mazda-protege5/

That's actually one of the posts that got me to buy the p5 in the first place!

We bought a 2003 Protege5 with ~83,000 miles on it and had belts, hoses and other stuff replaced on it. Turned out the passenger side motor mount was broken; the mechanic held it up to me in 2 pieces! Apparently it needs to be removed to put the new timing belt on so it was "only" another ~$140 with no extra labor.

Ouch. As far as I know all of the replacement mounts fall into three categories: OEM ($250 for the passenger side), "Performance" aftermarket ($200), ass quality-but cheap enough to do every oil change ($25)

 

[pcb]

That's what I thought at first, but I'm not so sure. There is so much space in that tear on top that I don't think it was ever really "solid." It seems like that was always meant to break away, and the rubber part of the mount was only ever solid in the bottom half (not on the top). There's simply so dang much space in the top where that tear is... And it makes sense that mainly/only the bottom needs to be solid because the weight of the engine is pushing down, not up, obviously. That's just a guess on my part, though.

I agree completely but I believe the top isn't supposed to rip,... it just does after it stretches too far. Even the video of the brand new mount showed the top "air pocket" area sealed on the side with a different colored sealant,... I assume just to keep crap out of the air pocket.
If the bottom of your mount isn't completely torn then it is not completely "loose".

From your (very helpful) pic, I can now tell that my mount is cracked at least partially. I'll probably let it ride for now per pcb and lowlevel, and I will buy a floor jack later per rit14623. They're not as expensive as I'd feared. Oh, and "big-ass" is hyphenated. C'mon man, this is protege5.com! We simply must have standards!

And pcb, never, ever post a photo like that again - at least not when I'm drinking a Coke in front of my computer screen.

How bout these,..

That's the backside of my carpet in the rear passenger compartment.

That's a screw head in the orange circle,...

 

[pcb]

We bought a 2003 Protege5 with ~83,000 miles on it and had belts, hoses and other stuff replaced on it. Turned out the passenger side motor mount was broken; the mechanic held it up to me in 2 pieces! Apparently it needs to be removed to put the new timing belt on so it was "only" another ~$140 with no extra labor.

That mount is $62 at Rockauto,... it's always worth asking the mechanic if you can supply the parts to them,... they might not like it or they may charge you more for their labor then but you can still save hundreds of dollars.

It's always great to find a mechanic that is willing to play fair.

 

[pcb]

Jesus christ dude.

Do you need $25 for an aftermarket mount? I'll gladly paypal you some money.

Per suggestion of another forum member, I bought https://www.amazon.com/dp/ (commissions earned) set of mounts. I've replaced the passenger and transmission side mount. Aaaalmost got the front mount done, but my friend striped the nut holding the bolt that connects the engine to the mount so I'm waiting to pick up a replacement nut before I tackle that one. I'm also going to order an OEM rear mount since I don't want to ever replace that one as long as I own the vehicle. I think I may pay someone to do it for me.

Be really careful with E-Bay for parts,... the passenger side mount is different for the manual and auto tranny and a lot of parts dealers don't know this.

Here's a picture of what's involved with replacing a rear engine mount,... cutting away parts or your car is part of the process...

There is no SST for this job. (but I think this tool may help),...

It's not about the money for that particular part for me and my car,... it's about the total cost of keeping my car on the road until my ass falls through the floorboards.

Remember this is Canada,.. I've had my car since April 2009 and since then have seen at least 100 P5's on the road. Of all of those cars, I've only seen 3 or 4 that were in as good a condition as mine. (I always check the rear fender for rot when I pass one (as well as check for the side marker light to know if it's a 2002 or 2003))

As far as my front engine mount goes,.. This is a picture of it.

The big-ass (apparently there's a hyphen for that word) bolt that goes through it has a big square end on it that is supported by that little metal tab on the frame mounted part of the mount.

I know almost for a fact that when I reef on the nut on the other end of the bolt that the tab is going to break off (due to the rust eating it away as well as the rust fusing the nut to the other end of the bolt)

So,... then out comes the huge vise grips or adjustable wrench (which will keep falling off) to hold the square end while I try to apply about 400 foot pounds of torque to it without cracking my head open.

Then out come the saws-all then when that doesn't work, the cutting torch. And I can't cut or melt any of the frame mounted parts while removing the bolt.

Then I wait for a new OEM bolt and nut to come in the mail cause now I can't drive to the dealership for a new one.


So,... I'm not replacing my engine mounts until the engine itself is smacking the back side of my hood.

However ,... It was late fall when I jammed that piece of rubber in there and I do intend to replace it with window weld when the snow melts but I'm not even going to consider removing them to do it.

So,... as you can see your $25 donation doesn't go very far, but I am willing to trade cars with you,... we can meet at the border, exchange cars and we'll both be happy. You will get the chance to learn all about the things that aren't covered in the FSM.

Here's my suggestion for you: buy an engine support beam. The official mazda workshop manual even says to use it for that. The use is a bit limited, but you can always sell it to someone if you're sure you'll never use it again. This one on harbor freight occasionally goes on sale for $50. I used a friend's engine hoist to hold everything in place and it made life fantastically easy -- much easier than if we'd used a jack and a piece of wood.

A lot of mechanics don't even have that tool (except the ones at the Mazda dealerships). There's always a relatively easy way to work without it.

I think the OP needs more basic tools,.. breaker bar, quality deep sockets, wrenches and even the big-ass vice grips (which end up being used more than we'd all like to admit)


With all that being said, I still love my car,.. even with her fourth stage cancer.

When I went out to start my car that hadn't been started for 2 1/2 weeks and it was -23 *C (-10 *F) and it started up, that is my idea of success.
She's not dead yet.

 

[hornsfan10609]

There is no cutting required for the rear mount, you can simply bend the stud away and bend it back straight when you are done. No special tools either, just 3 12" extensions and a 1/2" breaker bar/wrench.

And don't buy ebay or rockauto mounts at all, they are stiffer than stock and made of a cheap rubber than transmits vibes through the whole car. Only use OEM or aftermarket solid mounts/inserts.

 

[P-Funk!]

The crows foot tool (pictured) will not have the torque you need to break the bolt free (it will spread). Just bend/break the post to get access.

 

[pcb]

The crows foot tool (pictured) will not have the torque you need to break the bolt free (it will spread). Just bend/break the post to get access.

Good to know,... I haven't done that job (yet),... I just know it has been a huge PITA for a lot of members. (and mechanics who didn't realize what they were in for when they quoted a price)

Three feet of extension !?!!?? Looks like I need two more extensions before I can do it.

 

[Inside]

What happened to that post that had the clear instructions (and the beautiful extension monster) on how to do the rear mount? I spent 30 minutes looking for it but could not find it.