I Hate My CX-5

Ninja - How's the transition going from a CX-5 to a Miata? Using it as a DD?

From a driving dynamics standpoint, of course it can't be compared. The available trunk space in the Miata is pathetic. lol. I took out the spare tire to free up a little more room and it's livable. Why? You thinking about joining the dark side? (shady)

Here's a photo of the 1st gen Miata trunk from google images. Keeping in mind how skinny Miata spare tire is (it is a 115mm wide tire), you can see how small that trunk is.
ce223e59fb_640.jpg
 
From a driving dynamics standpoint, of course it can't be compared. The available trunk space in the Miata is pathetic. lol. I took out the spare tire to free up a little more room and it's livable. Why? You thinking about joining the dark side? (shady)

Here's a photo of the 1st gen Miata trunk from google images. Keeping in mind how skinny Miata spare tire is (it is a 115mm wide tire), you can see how small that trunk is.
ce223e59fb_640.jpg

No just curious. I owned a 94 Miata for a few years, but used a Honda Accord as a DD, so the trunk space was no prob for me.
 
Ninjanoise, sorry to read about your dissatisfaction with your CX5. This must be your first SUV and as you discovered it is no sports car. As I have read in CR magazine, owner satisfaction is typically lower with the lower trim lines. My first CX5 was a 2013 sport FWD 2.0 automatic. I found this powertrain to be more than adequate in all situations except a few while merging onto the highway or going up steep hills at highway speeds. I do remember test driving the manual transmission version and to me it felt significantly slower than the automatic.

In relation to the discussion about NVH, much of the perceived NVH has a lot to do with the motor mounts, especially with the premium brands. Mazda is known for not using much sound insulation or putting much attention to detail when it comes to NVH. The skyactiv engines are also under square engines designed for better low-end torque/efficiency. The small bore and larger stroke have also allowed Mazda to use higher compression ratios. Like anything else the automobile is full of compromises, especially at this price point.
 
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... The small bore and larger stroke have also allowed Mazda to use higher compression ratios.
This is not the reason to have high compression engine using regular fuel. Higher pressure than normal (2,900 psi vs. 1,600 psi) direct injection, six-hole injectors, volcano-top pistons, those are the elements to achieve amazing 13:1 compression ratio but still allow people to use low-octane regular gas! :)
 
This is not the reason to have high compression engine using regular fuel. Higher pressure than normal (2,900 psi vs. 1,600 psi) direct injection, six-hole injectors, volcano-top pistons, those are the elements to achieve amazing 13:1 compression ratio but still allow people to use low-octane regular gas! :)

Mazda was able to use 13:1 compression with 87 octane gas mainly because they were the first ones to figure out how to use folded full length headers and of course direct injection. No one had been able to use full length headers because they cool off the exhaust to much for cats to work. Mazda folded the header to retain heat, and on cold start inject raw gas into the header to heat them up quickly so cats work.
 
Mazda was able to use 13:1 compression with 87 octane gas mainly because they were the first ones to figure out how to use folded full length headers and of course direct injection. No one had been able to use full length headers because they cool off the exhaust to much for cats to work. Mazda folded the header to retain heat, and on cold start inject raw gas into the header to heat them up quickly so cats work.

...and all of this was good for nothing, really. I fail to see the benefit over simpler motors of the same size from a decade and a half ago that make the same power, and now have a decade and a half of track-record for being reliable...

That is one point of frustration for me. All of this technology didn't do much/anything for me, the end consumer.
 
Fuel efficiency is the consumer-oriented result of the technology. I recorded 25-31 mpg in 30K miles from a CX-5 GT 2.0L being a 3400 pound AWD SUV equipped with latest lux and safety features and that mileage is way better than anything available a decade ago.
 
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Fuel efficiency is the consumer-oriented result of the technology. I recorded 25-31 mpg in 30K miles from a CX-5 GT 2.0L being a 3400 pound AWD SUV equipped with latest lux and safety features and that mileage is way better than anything available a decade ago.
I averaged around 25mpg around town and 30 on road trips in my 3100# FWD 2002 Infiniti g20 with a 4 speed slush box. It had 145bhp and 136# torque. I'd say that's very comparable given the 4 speed slushbox. Slap that motor in your cx5 and I bet it would be within 1 to 2 mpg.
 
This is not the reason to have high compression engine using regular fuel. Higher pressure than normal (2,900 psi vs. 1,600 psi) direct injection, six-hole injectors, volcano-top pistons, those are the elements to achieve amazing 13:1 compression ratio but still allow people to use low-octane regular gas! :)

No, having a smaller bore and larger stroke is one of the reasons Mazda was able to use a higher compression ratio. The under square engine allows for a smaller piston and longer stroke to keep the same displacement. The smaller faster moving piston allows the flame front to have less contact with the smaller piston. With the smaller piston moving faster up and down the bore, the piston has less dwell time at top dead center. Less metal and less time spent at TDC means a cooler running piston. If the piston is running cooler, than the engine can run higher compression. With all these methods mentioned above combined, Mazda was able to use a 13 to 1 compression with 87 octane fuel.

Hope this clarifies it for you.
 
... The small bore and larger stroke have also allowed Mazda to use higher compression ratios.
This is not the reason to have high compression engine using regular fuel. Higher pressure than normal (2,900 psi vs. 1,600 psi) direct injection, six-hole injectors, volcano-top pistons, those are the elements to achieve amazing 13:1 compression ratio but still allow people to use low-octane regular gas! :)
Mazda was able to use 13:1 compression with 87 octane gas mainly because they were the first ones to figure out how to use folded full length headers and of course direct injection. No one had been able to use full length headers because they cool off the exhaust to much for cats to work. Mazda folded the header to retain heat, and on cold start inject raw gas into the header to heat them up quickly so cats work.
Yeah I forgot to mention SkyActiv's long 4-2-1 exhaust manifold. When 2011 Mazda3 came out with the first SkyActiv Technology implemented without 4-2-1 exhaust manifold, the compression ratio increased from 10:1 to 12:1 with regular gas for US market. Once implemented fully for 2013 Mazda3 and CX-5 with 4-2-1 exhaust manifold, the compression ratio increased to 13:1 although it's 14:1 for other regions which makes SkyActiv-G having the highest compression ratio in current production engines!

It worth to mention that SkyActiv's DI is different form other DI's with even higher pressure with unique multi-hole injectors. The also unique volcano-top pistons played the major role to high compression ratio for less energy loss, better combustion and reduced potential for knock. (first)
 
... The small bore and larger stroke have also allowed Mazda to use higher compression ratios.
This is not the reason to have high compression engine using regular fuel. Higher pressure than normal (2,900 psi vs. 1,600 psi) direct injection, six-hole injectors, volcano-top pistons, those are the elements to achieve amazing 13:1 compression ratio but still allow people to use low-octane regular gas! :)
No, having a smaller bore and larger stroke is one of the reasons Mazda was able to use a higher compression ratio. The under square engine allows for a smaller piston and longer stroke to keep the same displacement. The smaller faster moving piston allows the flame front to have less contact with the smaller piston. With the smaller piston moving faster up and down the bore, the piston has less dwell time at top dead center. Less metal and less time spent at TDC means a cooler running piston. If the piston is running cooler, than the engine can run higher compression. With all these methods mentioned above combined, Mazda was able to use a 13 to 1 compression with 87 octane fuel.
Hope this clarifies it for you.
High compression ratio is not as easy to be accomplished by implementing smaller bore and larger stroke alnoe. Or others will follow suit instead they are off-ladling engine displacement and adding turbochargers, active aero, or other costly technologies in the name of fuel economy! I've been reading many articles and I really liked the Mazda's way with SkyActiv Technology which is based on increasing the compression ratio to improve the efficiency. But none of them mentioned smaller bore and larger stroke as the contributor to high compression ratio. As matter of fact, although Mazda old 2.0L has bore x stroke 87.5 x 83.1mm with 10:1 compression ratio and new SA 2.0L has 83.5 x 91.2mm with 13/14:1, but the old 2.5L has bore x stroke 89 x 100mm with 9.7:1 compression ratio and new SA 2.5L has the same 89 x 100mm with 13/14:1. The same bore and stroke between old and new SA 2.5L further proves smaller bore and larger stroke has nothing to do with SkyActiv's very high compression ratio. (drinks)
 
I averaged around 25mpg around town and 30 on road trips in my 3100# FWD 2002 Infiniti g20 with a 4 speed slush box. It had 145bhp and 136# torque. I'd say that's very comparable given the 4 speed slushbox. Slap that motor in your cx5 and I bet it would be within 1 to 2 mpg.

Not likely to be a good bet. And not nearly as clean/legal from emissions standpoint too. Mazda did more engineering than that fortunately (versus engineering in garage using outdated low powered 2002 powertrain). Per the OP (and me too after 30K miles), the 2.0L at 155 hp is barely adequate as-is. The last thing CX-5 needs is a lower-powered engine with poorer fuel economy and higher emissions. Doesn't need a cassette player either. (blowup)
 
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...and all of this was good for nothing, really. I fail to see the benefit over simpler motors of the same size from a decade and a half ago that make the same power, and now have a decade and a half of track-record for being reliable...
That is one point of frustration for me. All of this technology didn't do much/anything for me, the end consumer.
This is not just Mazda. All automakers are using all kind of technologies with expensive cost just to improve a couple of MPG's. This certainly may not impress you and many consumers. But they have the CAFE standard and many regulations to meet hence they have no other choices. SkyActiv Technology has helped Mazda to survive otherwise their cars became uncompetitive! Use US version Mazda3 as an example,

2011 Mazda3 2.0L w/5-speed Auto (last model year without SkyActiv)
Horsepower: 148 hp @ 6500 rpm
Torque: 135 lb-ft @ 4500 rpm
Compression Ratio: 10.0:1
EPA MPG: 24 City/33 Highway
Curb Weight: 2922 lbs

2015 Mazda3 SkyActiv 2.0L w/6-speed Auto
Horsepower: 155 hp @ 6000 rpm
Torque: 150 lb-ft @ 4000 rpm
Compression Ratio: 13.0 : 1
EPA MPG: 30 City/41 Highway
Curb Weight: 2917/2918 lbs (Fed/CA)

So you can see how much improvement the SkyActiv has done to Mazda with the minimum cost. To me, that's remarkable!

Fuel efficiency is the consumer-oriented result of the technology. I recorded 25-31 mpg in 30K miles from a CX-5 GT 2.0L being a 3400 pound AWD SUV equipped with latest lux and safety features and that mileage is way better than anything available a decade ago.
I averaged around 25mpg around town and 30 on road trips in my 3100# FWD 2002 Infiniti g20 with a 4 speed slush box. It had 145bhp and 136# torque. I'd say that's very comparable given the 4 speed slushbox. Slap that motor in your cx5 and I bet it would be within 1 to 2 mpg.
You should never compare apple to orange as you did here. Comparing a CUV, a Mazda CX-5, to a compact sedan Infiniti G20, is simply unfair! In addition to weight difference (3433 lbs 2016 CX-5 Auto FWD vs. your 2961 lbs 2002 Infiniti G20 Auto), the height and high center of gravity all make differences. Let's compare your old G20 to comparable 2015 SkyActiv Mazda3 above:

2002 Infiniti G20 2.0L w/4-speed Auto
Horsepower: 145 hp @ 6000 rpm
Torque: 136 lb-ft @ 4800 rpm
Compression Ratio: 9.5 : 1
EPA MPG: 23 City/30 Highway
Curb Weight: 2961 lbs

Now you can see bigger differences between the two, especially on gas mileage, right?
 
This is not just Mazda. All automakers are using all kind of technologies with expensive cost just to improve a couple of MPG's. This certainly may not impress you and many consumers. But they have the CAFE standard and many regulations to meet hence they have no other choices. SkyActiv Technology has helped Mazda to survive otherwise their cars became uncompetitive! Use US version Mazda3 as an example,

2011 Mazda3 2.0L w/5-speed Auto (last model year without SkyActiv)
Horsepower: 148 hp @ 6500 rpm
Torque: 135 lb-ft @ 4500 rpm
Compression Ratio: 10.0:1
EPA MPG: 24 City/33 Highway
Curb Weight: 2922 lbs

2015 Mazda3 SkyActiv 2.0L w/6-speed Auto
Horsepower: 155 hp @ 6000 rpm
Torque: 150 lb-ft @ 4000 rpm
Compression Ratio: 13.0 : 1
EPA MPG: 30 City/41 Highway
Curb Weight: 2917/2918 lbs (Fed/CA)

So you can see how much improvement the SkyActiv has done to Mazda with the minimum cost. To me, that's remarkable!

You should never compare apple to orange as you did here. Comparing a CUV, a Mazda CX-5, to a compact sedan Infiniti G20, is simply unfair! In addition to weight difference (3433 lbs 2016 CX-5 Auto FWD vs. your 2961 lbs 2002 Infiniti G20 Auto), the height and high center of gravity all make differences. Let's compare your old G20 to comparable 2015 SkyActiv Mazda3 above:

2002 Infiniti G20 2.0L w/4-speed Auto
Horsepower: 145 hp @ 6000 rpm
Torque: 136 lb-ft @ 4800 rpm
Compression Ratio: 9.5 : 1
EPA MPG: 23 City/30 Highway
Curb Weight: 2961 lbs

Now you can see bigger differences between the two, especially on gas mileage, right?

Also frontal area a big factor
 
I averaged around 25mpg around town and 30 on road trips in my 3100# FWD 2002 Infiniti g20 with a 4 speed slush box. It had 145bhp and 136# torque. I'd say that's very comparable given the 4 speed slushbox. Slap that motor in your cx5 and I bet it would be within 1 to 2 mpg.

That is an unfair comparison given the huge frontal area of CX-5. That said, my CX-5 gets same city MPG as my 2007 Civic. My CX-5 gets 32MPG in mountain drivng which is far better than my 2007 Civic. The Civic beats the CX-5 in high speed highway driving due to huge wind resistance.

A fair comparison would be your 2002 Inginiti G20 to a 2015 Maxda3 /w skyactiv.
Mazda3 has over 30% better MPG and more power too.

2002 Infiniti G20 2.0L w/4-speed Auto____ 2015 Mazda3 2.0L /w 6-speed Auto
Horsepower: 145 hp @ 6000 rpm________ Horsepower: 155 @ 6000 rpm
Torque: 136 lb-ft @ 4800 rpm__________ Torque: 150 lb-ft @ 4000rpm
Compression Ratio: 9.5 : 1____________ Compression Ratio: 13:1
EPA MPG: 23/30_____________________ EPA MPG 30/41
Curb Weight: 2961 lbs _______________ Weight: 2918 lbs.

Mazda3 with 2.5L engine only loses 2mpg, but gains 185hp/184lb-ft. Infiniti G20 is fuel eating slug in comparison.

Skyactiv is a huge gain over competitors too. 15% more power, and 15% better MPG due to figuring out a way to run 13:1 compression with 87 octane gas. No one else can do that. The hybrid six speed transmission with low speed torque converter and use of wet clutches above 5mpg preserves the fun factor while increasing MPG. Others have resorted to CVT for efficient transmission, but horrible driving experience.
 
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... Skyactiv is a huge gain over competitors too. 15% more power, and 15% better MPG due to figuring out a way to run 13:1 compression with 87 octane gas. No one else can do that. The hybrid six speed transmission with low speed torque converter and use of wet clutches above 5mpg preserves the fun factor while increasing MPG. Others have resorted to CVT for efficient transmission, but horrible driving experience.
It's been said for every point increase in compression, power goes up by approximately 3%. Increasing the compression ratio on a gasoline engine is the most basic and reliable way to gain power and fuel efficiency if you can overcome the knock issue. Mazda did it with its unique SkyActiv Technology including high compression engine and lock-up clutch oriented automatic transmission.

All other automakers have chosen easier way by adding turbocharger and continuously variable transmission. Turbo technology is available for a while but it's expensive. It can get good EPA fuel economy ratings under pre-defined test circle as smaller displacement with low compression engine indeed using less fuel if you programmed the turbo not spinning. But in the real world situation you'll press the gas pedal to accelerate, the turbo will be spinning and sucking more gas for power, you'll most likely use more gas than EPA ratings very easily. In addition, the longevity on turbocharger will always be a question mark.

CVT has the same "benefit" for automakers. It can be programmed to be very efficient under EPA test criteria. But in the real world it'll show its true colors. Not only it's unconnected and boring to drive, but also it's using more gas! 2015 Honda CR-V is the example. Motor Trend selected it as 2015 SUV of the Year. The EPA fuel economy for a 2015 CR-V AWD, which just switched to a CVT, is very impressive 26 city/33 highway/28 combined mpg. But the real-world MPG Motor Trend tested were 21 city/29 highway/24 combined mpg! What a drop off!
 
CVT has the same "benefit" for automakers. It can be programmed to be very efficient under EPA test criteria. But in the real world it'll show its true colors. Not only it's unconnected and boring to drive, but also it's using more gas! 2015 Honda CR-V is the example. Motor Trend selected it as 2015 SUV of the Year. The EPA fuel economy for a 2015 CR-V AWD, which just switched to a CVT, is very impressive 26 city/33 highway/28 combined mpg. But the real-world MPG Motor Trend tested were 21 city/29 highway/24 combined mpg! What a drop off!

Wow, didn't realize that about CVT. No only do you get a crummy driving experience, but the MPG benefits are over hyped. That's a lose-lose proposition.
 
well if you have the poopy 2.0l, you can get some good gains from a tune. a guy posted his dyno from 123 stock to 150 with a 91 tune from mat Wilson (ovtune) and a custom catback ( a ghetto one where he just cut the piping out the muffler and welded a u pipe in it).
 
In CR tested the Subaru Forester with the CVT transmission bested the CX5 (both 2.0 and 2.5) in their combined mileage testing by 1 mpg. Still the CX5 2.5 is much quicker to 60 MPH than the Subaru and in my opinion Mazda's 6 speed wet clutch auto is fantastic. I'm so glad Mazda didn't follow the herd and put a rubber band transmission in their SUV too.
 
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