fishdonotbounce
Registered Zombie
- :
- 08.5 CWP Speed3
damn it lol my bad. Used to play WoW. Went back to Halo 3
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How bad do you want to get better mileage???
- Thread starter maxek
- Start date
fishdonotbounce
Registered Zombie
- :
- 08.5 CWP Speed3
Thank you Maxek
the funny thing about that movie, and gm, is that right now, after people started bitching and moaning about gas, they are trying to bring the electric car back with the volt.
great that they are trying to give people a choice... but is it really a choice? electricity is gonna become as dependant as gas with increased demand. the power companies will start to charge you more per k/w hour and and suddenly your shiney new electric card isnt as cheap as it seems heh.
its already starting to happen here in bc. our hydro is getting more expensive since we apparently dont have enough of it... we have to import power from *insert*, yet we have been exporting power for years and years...
ah.. bleh. priorities i guess.
im not gonna lie, ive been all over the internet reading and trying to find proof that this whole water4gas thing works.
ah well. when the protege starts costing $300/month to drive.. fack that. back to the bus for me... which im sure by then will cost $100/month cause of fuel surcharge...
great that they are trying to give people a choice... but is it really a choice? electricity is gonna become as dependant as gas with increased demand. the power companies will start to charge you more per k/w hour and and suddenly your shiney new electric card isnt as cheap as it seems heh.
its already starting to happen here in bc. our hydro is getting more expensive since we apparently dont have enough of it... we have to import power from *insert*, yet we have been exporting power for years and years...
ah.. bleh. priorities i guess.
im not gonna lie, ive been all over the internet reading and trying to find proof that this whole water4gas thing works.
ah well. when the protege starts costing $300/month to drive.. fack that. back to the bus for me... which im sure by then will cost $100/month cause of fuel surcharge...
no, that's not the problem... him, congress, and the cornhuskies decided it was an awesome idea to promote ethanol to "reduce foreign oil dependency" when in reality it INCREASES it due to the energy requirements to PRODUCE the ethanol which as a side effect not only increased fuel prices but increased food prices due to reduce farm land for food and increased transportation costs to ship the food to your supermarket, etcHuh? Since when does the president set fuel prices? Congress sets the fed tax, the States the state tax, the companies charge what the market will bear and have had to pay higher market prices due to the changes in the global economy... India and China have a growing middle class that is buying and driving cars now. Oil is getting more valuable.
The president has stopped filling the national reserve (a mistake in my opinion)and begged OPEC for mercy. Congress grants tax breaks to the oil companies and forbids more drilling in Alaska.
What else would and could YOU do if you were president??
Instead of crying and whining - maybe we just need to change our habits.
Warning!
It is a different type of driving. You get home 5 minutes later than usual.
You will be relaxed and stressless.
Also you will see a lot of asholes on the road.
Maxek - I agree completely. I started playing the game last summer when prices started to climb significantly. I too have found that 2500 rpm is the sweetspot between fuel economy and power. Here's my methods:
1) Only depress the throttle maybe 1/2 an inch. Very very light on the gas. With the 5 speed, I have no problem keeping up with traffic.
2) Shift religiously at 2500 rpm. When merging on the freeway, I'll shift at 3000 rpm just to get up to speed quicker.
3) Coast. If I see a red light a 1/4 mile ahead I'll shift into neutral and coast. Your engine should burn less gas at idle than at 2000 rpm while engine braking.
4) Slow down. I stay at the speed limit religiously in the city. On the freeway I'll do 60 in a 55 to keep up with traffic.
Using these tactics, I get 30+ mpg in the city - 33 mpg is my record. Keep in mind the new EPA standards for our car is 25 mpg city/ 28 highway. So I'm getting better than highway mileage on the street.
And yes, I find I catch more green lights because they're timed for the posted speed limit here in Western NY, and I'm much more relaxed when I get to my destination.
Two notes: with my bike rack on the car, I'm getting 27 mpg city. You lose a good 10-15% with a rack. Wind resistance sucks. Also, on an 800 mile round trip to Connecticut in the Spring, I left the cruise on at 72 mph (in a 65) and got 33 mpg there and 36 mpg back. It was a very relaxing trip, and I wasn't going fast enough to catch the troopers' attention. I went right by one with the cruise on and he/she didn't move. So there's another bonus!
I call it "Zen driving."
Try it for a few weeks...it takes time to adjust, but it's worth it at the pump. The low gearing is what kills us on the highway. This car is begging for an overdrive 6th gear.
The best part is watching everyone blow by you only to catch up to them as the next light turns green.
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MAZDA_SPEED
Member
- :
- BLACK MSP
i coast half the streets with my car, no lie, i figured, if i coast half the street, im only driving half the distance, sort of..lol..example, if the street is half a mile long, i catch cruising speeds and i coast the other half, i get 35 MPG city..i love 5 speed..=] ive been doing it for a month now. it really works.
ha ha. after reading this i started to do this in my auto <_< shifting into N when im just over the limit. kinda sucks here since victoria is so hilly, but my last tank only got me 405 km *$70*, so im up for trying anything.
What? I usually shift around 3.5k rpm just to barely catch up with traffic...
I'm getting around 21 mpg recently, i guess i really have to do some cleaning in the fuel. I tried cruise on 80 mpg for the whole tank coming back from florida, got 30 mpg. i guess aggressive city driving really kills mpg and brake lol.
Josh
I'm getting around 21 mpg recently, i guess i really have to do some cleaning in the fuel. I tried cruise on 80 mpg for the whole tank coming back from florida, got 30 mpg. i guess aggressive city driving really kills mpg and brake lol.
Josh
gottacatchup
Member
- :
- 2003 MP5
Maxek - I agree completely. I started playing the game last summer when prices started to climb significantly. I too have found that 2500 rpm is the sweetspot between fuel economy and power. Here's my methods:
1) Only depress the throttle maybe 1/2 an inch. Very very light on the gas. With the 5 speed, I have no problem keeping up with traffic.
2) Shift religiously at 2500 rpm. When merging on the freeway, I'll shift at 3000 rpm just to get up to speed quicker.
3) Coast. If I see a red light a 1/4 mile ahead I'll shift into neutral and coast. Your engine should burn less gas at idle than at 2000 rpm while engine braking.
4) Slow down. I stay at the speed limit religiously in the city. On the freeway I'll do 60 in a 55 to keep up with traffic.
Number 3 is not accurate. When you're car is coasting down with you completely off the throttle in gear the throttle is completely closed and is using the least gas of any engine operating condition. When your car hits idle the computer automatically cracks open the throttle a small amount to keep the car from dying. Because of this idle uses more fuel then coasting with the engine in gear.
I am so happy that some guys have been doing this and some are trying. Maybe all of us will show the guys on top our (fu) because they really
deserve it. I wish everyone in us drove only speed limit or less. I bet you they would start ticketing for that because our milage
improves 30% or more.
Try it guys!!! More of Us less money for oil kings!!!(fu)
deserve it. I wish everyone in us drove only speed limit or less. I bet you they would start ticketing for that because our milage
improves 30% or more.
Try it guys!!! More of Us less money for oil kings!!!(fu)
- :
- Protege5 2003
Number 3 is not accurate. When you're car is coasting down with you completely off the throttle in gear the throttle is completely closed and is using the least gas of any engine operating condition. When your car hits idle the computer automatically cracks open the throttle a small amount to keep the car from dying. Because of this idle uses more fuel then coasting with the engine in gear.
Let's just talk about manuals for now (the torque converter locking/unlocking on an automatic makes it even messier). It is true that if the car is in gear, your foot off the gas, and the cruise control not engaged, that the computer should turn off gas to the motor. It is not entirely clear when that will occur though. The drive train is turning the motor which is offering some resistance, more if there is no gas going into it. Among other things, there is friction in the motor, it is still driving the alternator etc., and energy is being lost when air is compressed and some of the resulting heat escapes into the block.
On the flip side, coasting in neutral has no engine braking, but it does burn gas keeping the motor turning.
It's not at all clear to me which operating condition uses more gas. Coasting in neutral is illegal in many jurisdictions.
The real hypermiling fanatics put it in neutral and turn off the motor. In my opinion that would be a very unsafe thing to do on most cars, including the P5. If the key goes one position too far it will lock the steering. Power steering and power braking will also be compromised. Get in an accident with the car moving and the motor turned off and they are going to throw the book at you. That will more than negate any possible advantages.
Our cars roll very well in neutral. I can coast in neutral for a long time on a slight downhill doing 35mph and on a nice hill I will pick up a lot of speed form 50 to 70mph no problem in a very short time. Actually P5 is the best rolling car that I have ever owned.
Do not forget to inflate your tiers to 40psi.
It is better to go on neutral even though we are still burning gas than engine braking. Engine braking really slows your car down and you will go nowhere near the distance done in neutral.
Never ever shut your engine off that is crazy unsafe.
Do not forget to inflate your tiers to 40psi.
It is better to go on neutral even though we are still burning gas than engine braking. Engine braking really slows your car down and you will go nowhere near the distance done in neutral.
Never ever shut your engine off that is crazy unsafe.
One key mental point is to use the brakes as little as possible. They basically convert your fuel money into heat and brake dust. Coasting in neutral with a m/t is very effective. While coasting in gear IS actually often more efficient (with the ECU cutting off the fuel) the practical problem is the greater deceleration owing to the engine braking - i.e. you can't roll far enough to reach the next stoplight. Shift to neutral and let out the clutch lest you wear out the throwout bearing early.
One key in suburban driving is to try not to brake till you coast to 30 MPH in a 40MPH zone (where you were indeed going 40) You lose only about half as much energy to braking as if you brake from 40. (kinetic energy being 1/2 mass * square of the velocity) Rotors & pads last too.
Another is to shift into gear near the lowest RPM suitable for the traffic flow. I routinely can shift into gear with a 1200RPM starting point. Even 1000RPM when you don't need much pickup. Such engine lugging used to be a no-no due to higher engine bearing loads but I've not had any problems.
One key in suburban driving is to try not to brake till you coast to 30 MPH in a 40MPH zone (where you were indeed going 40) You lose only about half as much energy to braking as if you brake from 40. (kinetic energy being 1/2 mass * square of the velocity) Rotors & pads last too.
Another is to shift into gear near the lowest RPM suitable for the traffic flow. I routinely can shift into gear with a 1200RPM starting point. Even 1000RPM when you don't need much pickup. Such engine lugging used to be a no-no due to higher engine bearing loads but I've not had any problems.
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thefrog1394
Member
- :
- 2003 Protege LX
Everyone always pulls the "brakes turn fuel into heat" deal, and I just want to make a correction to this. I'm not saying those who said it here don't understand this but I've talked to people who were completely off base on this one.
The act of pressing your brakes doesn't waste fuel. Its the idea that because you are slowing down you will then need to waste fuel to get back up to speed. When you press your brakes you are simply wasting that kinetic energy that you have built up, and so you will have to use gas to get back up to that point.
The act of pressing your brakes doesn't waste fuel. Its the idea that because you are slowing down you will then need to waste fuel to get back up to speed. When you press your brakes you are simply wasting that kinetic energy that you have built up, and so you will have to use gas to get back up to that point.
- :
- Protege5 2003
One key in suburban driving is to try not to brake till you coast to 30 MPH in a 40MPH zone (where you were indeed going 40) You lose only about half as much energy to braking as if you brake from 40. (kinetic energy being 1/2 mass * square of the velocity)
I don't get what you mean. Your formula for kinetic energy is correct. Plug in the numbers. If you start at 40mph and end at 30mph, it doesn't matter if you coasted or used the brakes, either way the same amount of kinetic energy has been turned into heat. The only differences are the rate of deceleration (usually higher with braking) and where the heat is released (in the brakes versus in the bearings, tires, transmission, air, etc.)
Most of the game in driving to conserve fuel can be summarized as "drive in such a way that as much of the car's kinetic energy as possible is retained." This is because to replace that energy you generally have to burn gas. (Generally because there might be hills or high winds available for an extra push.) There are slight differences in the amount of gas needed to put that energy back into the moving car, based on the shift points or throttle positions, but it is better to "keep what you have paid for" than to have to "buy it again".
Imagine you are reasonably far from a light which has just turned red and the car is at 40 mph. Your secondary goal (primary being not hitting anything or being hit while trying to save gas) is to retain as much of the KE you already have for when the light turns green again. If coasting provides enough braking so that you won't reach the light while it is still red, then by all means coast. If you need to decelerate more than that, to get down to say 30 mph, and then coast, then that's fine too. However if you are only 100 feet from that light there is no choice but to just stop. Game over, no way to save gas.
One thing that does concern me about hyper-miling methods is that, ironically, these tend to be pretty antisocial. All those cars slowly coasting to a light prevent cars on the side streets from turning onto the main artery. The guy who times his gas saving acceleration just right to get him through the last second of a green may force the 5 cars behind him to miss that same light. The total amount of gas these other cars burn may well exceed the small amount that the hyper-miler saved. So, these tricks are great when the traffic is light and you are not inconveniencing other people, but it's not at all clear to me that they are a net plus in heavier traffic.
fishdonotbounce
Registered Zombie
- :
- 08.5 CWP Speed3
ok I'm going to mess up this little knowledgefest you guys are having by saying that I filled her up today and found out that I got about 29.5 MPG. Not bad for an auto and a couple of times I got the lead foot syndrome. lol
brickisred
Member
- :
- 2003 Mazda Protege5
One thing that does concern me about hyper-miling methods is that, ironically, these tend to be pretty antisocial.
I've been trying to stay really consistent on my throttle, coasting when possible, etc. and I find myself cursing everytime I am behind someone that is slowing down to make a turn off the road. Messes up my speed, makes me slow down and I have to "burn" more to get back up. Not a good feeling. Also noticed the other day on the interstate that it seemed like EVERYBODY was driving slower (<60mph) I must say it was a little irritating. I think the instances of road rage are just going to go up...
Ok, here's a thought for you guys that advocate coasting in neutral (5 speed).
What kidn of life do you expect to get out of your clutch?
Lets face it - a clutch is wear-device, and will only operate a miximum number of times before it begins to fail. Of ocurse, the way you shift affects this max number, but it is there.
Lets say you can get 100,00 clutch grab/releases before it begins to slip.
if you are constantly shifting into neutral to coast, you will greatly increase the rate at which you approach this number... lets say one in 5 shifts is into neutral - you have decreased the life of your clucth by 20%. Now compare the cost of replacing that thing to teh 5% gas savings. In $$, not worth it IMO!
Now the other option is to just hold in the clutch and gcoast in gear but w/o the motor "connected". People say this will wear out the pilot bearing, but after watching the mechanics of a clutch engaging/disengaging/holding open, I canno tfor teh life of me see how just holding it open longer make any difference on the bearing.
What kidn of life do you expect to get out of your clutch?
Lets face it - a clutch is wear-device, and will only operate a miximum number of times before it begins to fail. Of ocurse, the way you shift affects this max number, but it is there.
Lets say you can get 100,00 clutch grab/releases before it begins to slip.
if you are constantly shifting into neutral to coast, you will greatly increase the rate at which you approach this number... lets say one in 5 shifts is into neutral - you have decreased the life of your clucth by 20%. Now compare the cost of replacing that thing to teh 5% gas savings. In $$, not worth it IMO!
Now the other option is to just hold in the clutch and gcoast in gear but w/o the motor "connected". People say this will wear out the pilot bearing, but after watching the mechanics of a clutch engaging/disengaging/holding open, I canno tfor teh life of me see how just holding it open longer make any difference on the bearing.
