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- Thread starter Ace
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MazdaSpeeder
Member
- :
- Protege5 (5-spd)
I am all for a 4-2-1 header, but price is a factor for a lot of us too. If you could pull off a 4-2-1 or a 4-1 longtube for a price near what the 4-1 shorttubes cost (under $300 or so) that would be awesome. The AWR piece is laughably expensive at $950. You would sell a ton of them for sure!
i have some cad drawings of a header i had designed but never made for the protege.. Long runner 4-1 header. Pipes equalized early, so was easy to lengthen to bias the power lower, or shorten to bias it higher..
may consider giving the design to a manufacturer in exchange for a freebie
no love on this?
seriously, anyone who wants a "shorty" header for the motor is wasting their time. Shorties *do not* make appreciable power gains - the runners simply are not long enough to leverage the scavenging effect. Long runner 4-1 will yield the best gains for an NA engine - and with a decent/correclty designed/properly calculated collector cone, the midrange power shouldn't be much or any different to a (more expensive and more complicated) 4-2-1 set up.
But expect to pay big dollars for a decent part, you get what you pay for and theres a lot of steel and trick welding in a decent set of header pipes
JonnyTheJet
Member
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- LaserBlue P5
bump for LordWorm, no one wants to make a 4-2-1 header??? =(
It's not that we're not interested in pursuing this, it's just that development takes time and this isn't even on our 'approved' list yet. We've got a lot of designs that are actually in process right now and need to get to the point that we can dish some more projects onto our plate.
As for which style we would end up going with in the long run, that would be fully open and up for discussion once we had an approved project plan started and could go further on the design concept. Until then, I would welcome discussion about the details of which style would work best. The only reason I suggested a shorty design was to facilitate the use of the factory catalyst for California customers who seemed concerned about that.
I doubt that would make power either, but if we could design a modular system that had a four pipe flange that would either bolt to the factory catalyst canister or to a four pipe flange with the remainder of a 4-1 design, that would be a coup to say the least. Design something along those lines that can be a 4-1, a 4-Catalyst or a 4-T3 Turbocharger flange collector would be a great convertible design that would allow someone to start with a header and swap out to a turbo exhaust manifold very quickly. Pick up the factory heat shield mount points and you've got a system that can be easily concealed from the fuzz if they like to hassle you in your area.
That's the kind of product that I'd like to design - something that is configurable, available in piece parts or as a configured kit and gets the solutions that everyone wants with shared design elements. Also, then if you want to go with boost down the line, you're not sacrificing your header investment.
Jason Griffith
CorkSport
As for which style we would end up going with in the long run, that would be fully open and up for discussion once we had an approved project plan started and could go further on the design concept. Until then, I would welcome discussion about the details of which style would work best. The only reason I suggested a shorty design was to facilitate the use of the factory catalyst for California customers who seemed concerned about that.
I doubt that would make power either, but if we could design a modular system that had a four pipe flange that would either bolt to the factory catalyst canister or to a four pipe flange with the remainder of a 4-1 design, that would be a coup to say the least. Design something along those lines that can be a 4-1, a 4-Catalyst or a 4-T3 Turbocharger flange collector would be a great convertible design that would allow someone to start with a header and swap out to a turbo exhaust manifold very quickly. Pick up the factory heat shield mount points and you've got a system that can be easily concealed from the fuzz if they like to hassle you in your area.
That's the kind of product that I'd like to design - something that is configurable, available in piece parts or as a configured kit and gets the solutions that everyone wants with shared design elements. Also, then if you want to go with boost down the line, you're not sacrificing your header investment.
Jason Griffith
CorkSport
thats cool and all but some people want to go the non-turbo route and stay na and it would be nice to have a great quality header out there to make us power. A nice 4-1 or 4-2-1 longtube would be great and maybe it could have also an extra 02 bung on it so if you wanna run a wideband on it. Also it would be good for it to bolt up to ur exhaust as well. I would'nt know if you would make it that long or sell a pipe to bolt up the header to the exhaust.
if power is what you want (at the exclusion of all else) stop thinking 4-2-1. they are designed for BROAD power (thats not to say you can't make them for peak power, but usually it involves some pretty expensive stuff like stepped design and so forth). 4-1 with a merge collector in a long runner design (tuned for peak power at or around 6000rpm) will yield the best results as far as horsepower goes as it will provide the strongest scavenging wave. Of course, cam timing has a lot to do with this as well.
From the work i did a while back trying to design up a header - its unlikely anything thats working from the header back on your existing setup will quite fit with an adequitely long header.
I think one of the first things people will need to realise is that they will have little choice but to modify their exhausts to make a decent/correct header work on the protege.
I agree with you lordworm i rather have a 4-1 header made i was just trying to get something out there made maybe they would be able to make both. It would just be nice to have a good quality header out there.atleast if they made both people could choose the best design that fits their build.
Doubt you will get 30 to 40 people interested, especially if the proviso is that it is some sort of piece that requires you to add bits together to come up with the desired result (so it can be shorty, long tube, turbo manifold etc).
I personally believe this isn't the way to go and the FEW people who are into hardcore NA here will be unlikely to purchase such a thing... its to much of a compromise. By all means recycle jigs so the upper portion of the jig is the same, but i think it has to be complete parts that look good - and most importantly perform well....
I honestly don't think there are enough serious NA'ers here to make this worth anyones while...which is why i gave up on my design.
I personally believe this isn't the way to go and the FEW people who are into hardcore NA here will be unlikely to purchase such a thing... its to much of a compromise. By all means recycle jigs so the upper portion of the jig is the same, but i think it has to be complete parts that look good - and most importantly perform well....
I honestly don't think there are enough serious NA'ers here to make this worth anyones while...which is why i gave up on my design.
JonnyTheJet
Member
- :
- LaserBlue P5
Disappointed =(
