john blutarski
Member
- :
- 2004 Subaru WRX STI
exactly
For those that have LSD noise after switching to MT90
- Thread starter )EIB(
- Start date
exactly
thanks for the insight - i just wanted to make sure i wasn't destroying my drivetrain.
i'll keep the Amsoil in there - the shifting is smooth, and, if the noise is harmless, then i don't have any worries. especially if all other fluids also make noise.
1speed3 - you think that MTG (Amsoil) is better than MT-90 (Redline)? I figured that they were comparable but that MT-90 was better because it's so darn common.
has anyone tried pennzoil syncromesh? i have it in my trans in my zx2 and it shifts like butter
Fat Dave - you're accomplishing what I did when I started using Redline MTL in my trannie. The MTL and Pennzoil Synchromesh are considerably thinner than the 75w-90 weight that Mazda specs and because they are thinner the synchros have less fluid thichness working against them as they try to do their job.
I ran the MTL for around 17k miles with no problems whatsoever to it appears to be up to the job of fully lubricating the trans' innards. And being thinner cold shifts are MUCH better than MT90. If the XT-M5_QS weren't doing so well, I'd be right back on the MTL!
Fat Dave - you're accomplishing what I did when I started using Redline MTL in my trannie. The MTL and Pennzoil Synchromesh are considerably thinner than the 75w-90 weight that Mazda specs and because they are thinner the synchros have less fluid thichness working against them as they try to do their job.
I ran the MTL for around 17k miles with no problems whatsoever to it appears to be up to the job of fully lubricating the trans' innards. And being thinner cold shifts are MUCH better than MT90. If the XT-M5_QS weren't doing so well, I'd be right back on the MTL!
the ms3 transmission is the aisin bg6. not getrag.
http://www.aisin.com/product/automotive/drivetrain/mt.html
Nliiitend1
Member
This is the stuff I used to use in my Focuses, and it's definitely a top notch fluid.
I had intended to use it in my MS3, and hearing you say that it's performing admirably has only cemented my resolve to do so.
When I first changed my fluid I heard this noise as well. To get rid of it I had to add a full 4 oz tube of friction modifier (about 4% by volume). This was done by following the instructions which say add modifier untill the chatter stops. I don't know where they got the 1% from.
You will be fine with this set up as your daily driver. If you are taking your car to the track, the modifier is not recommended. Just take note that adding the modifier will require you to change your fluid more often.
I have been running MT-90 with friction modifier for about a year now and love it.
You will be fine with this set up as your daily driver. If you are taking your car to the track, the modifier is not recommended. Just take note that adding the modifier will require you to change your fluid more often.
I have been running MT-90 with friction modifier for about a year now and love it.
Friction modifier kills synchros. Even a small amount. It will make the diff noise stop, but over time it will cause the synchros to slip and gears to grind. I add nothing to my MT 90. I did get a little noise the first couple 100 miles while turning but it stopped. Also FYI there is no friction modifier in it from mazda.
///M Compact
Member
This is the stuff I used to use in my Focuses, and it's definitely a top notch fluid.
I had intended to use it in my MS3, and hearing you say that it's performing admirably has only cemented my resolve to do so.
That's what I use; my transaxle isn't dead silent in tight corners but the fluid improved the shift quality quite a bit.
marathonman08
Member
- :
- 08 cosmic blue speed3
i just added MT-90 this weekend and it made a huge difference in the smothness of the shifting... as for the sound... Get a TRZ tranny mount and you won't even hear them because of all the other wonderful transmission sounds. Problem solved
fastdreams
Member
- :
- 2008 MS3
I have Motul Gear FF or something like that. Shifts great but also has the lsd noise noticeable at parking lot speeds while turning.
Glad to see it's not a big deal mechanically!
Glad to see it's not a big deal mechanically!
Pololo_MS3
Member
- :
- Mazdaspeed 3
Yeap....Same issue with mine. MT-90 for 10K miles now and although the shift is better than stock, the noise drives me crazy.
I even took it back to the dealer and they said: "Did you change the oil in the tranny to RedLine Synthetic?"... I was .. yes I did... "Then that's the problem"... They added a friction modifier from Ford and told me not to worry about it...
"It indeeds sounds bad but it's better than the "stock oil"... so don't switch back..." This was the Service Manager who is pretty good and knows me well.
Hope this helps
Carlos
I even took it back to the dealer and they said: "Did you change the oil in the tranny to RedLine Synthetic?"... I was .. yes I did... "Then that's the problem"... They added a friction modifier from Ford and told me not to worry about it...
"It indeeds sounds bad but it's better than the "stock oil"... so don't switch back..." This was the Service Manager who is pretty good and knows me well.
Hope this helps
Carlos
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I have the Amsoil MTG in mine and it makes the noise.
Facts about lsds & friction modifiers
Cone clutch lsds make a moaning sound when turning sharply at low speeds. Get used to it like clanging bpvs.
Friction modifiers were developed to prevent chatter in plate clutch lsds by increasing "slipperiness".
Cone clutch lsds and gear synchronizers require friction to work. Adding friction modifier to the MS3 tranny will result in degraded performance of the synchronizers and lsd. Your gears will clash during shifts because the synchronizers cannot exert enough torque on the chosen gear because it is too slippery. The quiet lsd is now just along for the ride because it cannot build enough torque in its cone clutches to be effective.
I feel sorry for those of you that have added friction modifier to the MS3 tranny.
If someone asks you "what is that moaning noise when turning at low speed?" just tell them proudly that your car is equipped with a cone clutch limited slip differential and that is just the sound they make. If you perceive this as a flaw, you should sell your MS3 and put your candy ass in a Camry.(sad1)
-enganear
Cone clutch lsds make a moaning sound when turning sharply at low speeds. Get used to it like clanging bpvs.
Friction modifiers were developed to prevent chatter in plate clutch lsds by increasing "slipperiness".
Cone clutch lsds and gear synchronizers require friction to work. Adding friction modifier to the MS3 tranny will result in degraded performance of the synchronizers and lsd. Your gears will clash during shifts because the synchronizers cannot exert enough torque on the chosen gear because it is too slippery. The quiet lsd is now just along for the ride because it cannot build enough torque in its cone clutches to be effective.
I feel sorry for those of you that have added friction modifier to the MS3 tranny.
If someone asks you "what is that moaning noise when turning at low speed?" just tell them proudly that your car is equipped with a cone clutch limited slip differential and that is just the sound they make. If you perceive this as a flaw, you should sell your MS3 and put your candy ass in a Camry.(sad1)
-enganear
I both agree and disagree with enganear.
If you are tracking your car, you should NOT be using friction modifier.
For a daily driver I think adding some modifier is fine, but don't go overboard with it. I added modifier to my tranny to soften up the noise. You can still hear it on low speed turns, but it doesn't sound as harsh as it did without the modifier.
My tranny still shifts smooth as silk and I can feel my LSD locking up when I want it to.
If you are trying to figure out what to do, it's all up to you because it's your car. Keep in mind that if you do add modifier. You need to change the fluid more often!
Thats all I got.
If you are tracking your car, you should NOT be using friction modifier.
For a daily driver I think adding some modifier is fine, but don't go overboard with it. I added modifier to my tranny to soften up the noise. You can still hear it on low speed turns, but it doesn't sound as harsh as it did without the modifier.
My tranny still shifts smooth as silk and I can feel my LSD locking up when I want it to.
If you are trying to figure out what to do, it's all up to you because it's your car. Keep in mind that if you do add modifier. You need to change the fluid more often!
Thats all I got.
Your reasons? I got an easily discernible improvement in shift quality after switching to MT90, especially 2-3. There may be even better oils out there that I have not tried, but I would never go back to the factory fill after living with MT90 and I am unlikely to switch because I am quite happy with it.
Just to recap, A cone clutch lsd that does not moan when cold at full lock and low speed is unlikely to provide limited slip functionality at WOT. Friction modifiers are meant for plate type lsds in stand-alone differentials and interfere with the function of transmission synchronizers. The lubrication is shared by the transmission and diff in the MS3 and that is why Mazda chose a cone-clutch lsd. A Torsen/Quaife type lsd would have been a better, but much more expensive option.
-enganear
