I'm really concerned about this so I appreciate the long-wind. I was worried about leaks since my psi was only hitting 12s. I am going to print this page of the thread and go over to the shop this weekend though, Saturday morning I think, and tell the guy to fix the correction rate and make them give me three pulls for free. This is what happens when douches run tuner shops in Indianapolis and there is nothing but Camroes and Mistangs in Kentuckiana. It's ridiculous though that you can't even go to a random shop any longer without worried about being ripped off. Nobody gives a s*** about business just money. I guess I'm lucky that Midas next door to the place was so helpful getting my DP donut on after my buddy kind of f*ed it up. No anger at him though, all props to my buddy since he and I did the mani and the dp in 12 hours straight and no issues, that would have cost me a fortune at a shop.
Dyno pull results
- Thread starter BluMicaR
- Start date
I'm really concerned about this so I appreciate the long-wind. I was worried about leaks since my psi was only hitting 12s. I am going to print this page of the thread and go over to the shop this weekend though, Saturday morning I think, and tell the guy to fix the correction rate and make them give me three pulls for free. This is what happens when douches run tuner shops in Indianapolis and there is nothing but Camroes and Mistangs in Kentuckiana. It's ridiculous though that you can't even go to a random shop any longer without worried about being ripped off. Nobody gives a s*** about business just money. I guess I'm lucky that Midas next door to the place was so helpful getting my DP donut on after my buddy kind of f*ed it up. No anger at him though, all props to my buddy since he and I did the mani and the dp in 12 hours straight and no issues, that would have cost me a fortune at a shop.
mysleeper6
Member
- :
- 2006 Mazdaspeed6
rpm torque hp
2500 240 114.24
2750 267 139.80
3000 278 158.80
3250 279 172.65
3500 284 189.26
3750 307 219.20
4000 318 242.19
4250 310 250.86
4500 304 260.47
4750 293 264.99
5000 279 265.61
5250 260 259.90
5500 251 262.85
5750 220 240.86
6000 180 205.64
6250 150 178.50
6500 124 153.47
So how would you feel about 265 hp? Better?
I pulled the torque numbers off your chart and plugged them into hp=(torque*rpm)/5252. If somebody has the time pull his sheet and plot these numbers on it and post it here.
2500 240 114.24
2750 267 139.80
3000 278 158.80
3250 279 172.65
3500 284 189.26
3750 307 219.20
4000 318 242.19
4250 310 250.86
4500 304 260.47
4750 293 264.99
5000 279 265.61
5250 260 259.90
5500 251 262.85
5750 220 240.86
6000 180 205.64
6250 150 178.50
6500 124 153.47
So how would you feel about 265 hp? Better?
I pulled the torque numbers off your chart and plugged them into hp=(torque*rpm)/5252. If somebody has the time pull his sheet and plot these numbers on it and post it here.
Last edited:
I feel MUCH better about 265 and that's what I assumed I would fall around given mods and studying people's dyno sheets. My whole concern wasn't from the start that I had low numbers, just that the numbers did not jive with what I knew they should and that something was wrong with my car or the dyno.
We'll see what asshat says when I speak with him Saturday. The guy who went right before me had a bad ass Cobra and he only dyno'd 313, I wish I knew how to tell him they screwed him. To make it worse he was tuning on their dyno.
As I stand on the sideline, for this science in action discussion, I would like to comment now. I appreciate the effort put forth by the members to solve this mystery. Again these threads are why I like this forum. We are a limited number of folks who own these nifty little hot rods and we will need to share our experiences with each other to achieve the performance the car is capable of. Thanks guys. and I am um subscribed?
mysleeper6
Member
- :
- 2006 Mazdaspeed6
LOL, "science in action"...I always secretly wanted to be Bill Nye (bowdown)
I want to mention, if you run your car hard at the temperatures above 90 you will lose performance i don't care who you are. Blu if you go to the track you will heatsoak while waiting for your next in line. iceice The stock top mount did not do much for me. And I am Sorry the dyno guys were not up to par.
justa4banger
Member
- :
- 2007 SILVER MS3
Well for some reason i can't see the Dyno sheets from Mr BlumicaR.
In my experience i have seen dyno charts though that scale Trq and Hp on different graphs. if the dyno operator is a twit, the hp numbers will read WRong.
All i will suggest to FUTURE dyno queens.....
is find a dyno that gives you near accurate numbers and use the same dyno EVERY TIME...... end of story. The dyno numbers are fun to wave in someones face but at the end of the day its means crap. I promise if i turn the boost down on my SVO and match a Ms3's peak trq with my Svo's peak trq, i'll slap a MS3 silly, even from a roll, and with added weight to match car weights..........WHY because one thing my Old dog does that Ms3's can't, is hold that trq all the way to redline...... Every ms3 dyno i see is a huge trq Spike and then rapidly falls, POWER UNDER THE TRQ CURVE wins races gentlemen.
I have beat down 03-04 cobras that dynoed 70+whp more than me. they finally pass me when i run out of gear at around 140mph. If i had another OD i could still slap em silly. Blower cars make TONS of trq down low but can't sustain it up top. its how they work. this is where a turbo car shines.
In fact looking at all these dyno charts on the board the MS3 needs a few things to help it breath better on the top and keep the trq UP. Primarly the turbo is just to small, ECU is a PITA, exhasut is restrictive (dp). If i ever decide to mod my MS3 i will work on helping it flow more air, especially in higher revs.........
In my experience i have seen dyno charts though that scale Trq and Hp on different graphs. if the dyno operator is a twit, the hp numbers will read WRong.
All i will suggest to FUTURE dyno queens.....
is find a dyno that gives you near accurate numbers and use the same dyno EVERY TIME...... end of story. The dyno numbers are fun to wave in someones face but at the end of the day its means crap. I promise if i turn the boost down on my SVO and match a Ms3's peak trq with my Svo's peak trq, i'll slap a MS3 silly, even from a roll, and with added weight to match car weights..........WHY because one thing my Old dog does that Ms3's can't, is hold that trq all the way to redline...... Every ms3 dyno i see is a huge trq Spike and then rapidly falls, POWER UNDER THE TRQ CURVE wins races gentlemen.I have beat down 03-04 cobras that dynoed 70+whp more than me. they finally pass me when i run out of gear at around 140mph. If i had another OD i could still slap em silly. Blower cars make TONS of trq down low but can't sustain it up top. its how they work. this is where a turbo car shines.
In fact looking at all these dyno charts on the board the MS3 needs a few things to help it breath better on the top and keep the trq UP. Primarly the turbo is just to small, ECU is a PITA, exhasut is restrictive (dp). If i ever decide to mod my MS3 i will work on helping it flow more air, especially in higher revs.........
justa4banger
Member
- :
- 2007 SILVER MS3
Oh and yes my car saw the dyno ALOT when it was alive.... why....well cause honestly i wanted to see where my money was going and why i lost my wife over that car.......
Wait til next year..... i should about 500+whp on tap, auto, and suspension mods for LOW 10's if not 9's.....
Wait til next year..... i should about 500+whp on tap, auto, and suspension mods for LOW 10's if not 9's.....
Sounds serious
On what car? And which motor? that sounds like good fun.Oh and yes my car saw the dyno ALOT when it was alive.... why....well cause honestly i wanted to see where my money was going and why i lost my wife over that car.......
Wait til next year..... i should about 500+whp on tap, auto, and suspension mods for LOW 10's if not 9's.....
I believe you are correct about flow, and increasing it. this car is not far away from some decent power on a flattened curve, Valve overlap eh? There are NO aftermarket cams for this car! So people just are not building these things up as well as we might have hoped. By the way, can you run slaloms above 68mph. And how are your brakes at a 150 in a sweeper. Drag or GT road car. I can not have both. Thanks for topic and good call on exhaust and turbo, but that leaves room for improvement!Well for some reason i can't see the Dyno sheets from Mr BlumicaR.
In my experience i have seen dyno charts though that scale Trq and Hp on different graphs. if the dyno operator is a twit, the hp numbers will read WRong.
All i will suggest to FUTURE dyno queens.....
I have beat down 03-04 cobras that dynoed 70+whp more than me. they finally pass me when i run out of gear at around 140mph. If i had another OD i could still slap em silly. Blower cars make TONS of trq down low but can't sustain it up top. its how they work. this is where a turbo car shines.
In fact looking at all these dyno charts on the board the MS3 needs a few things to help it breath better on the top and keep the trq UP. Primarly the turbo is just to small, ECU is a PITA, exhasut is restrictive (dp). If i ever decide to mod my MS3 i will work on helping it flow more air, especially in higher revs.........
Last edited:
I wonder why you can't see my dyno sheets? I'll load them up in .doc format... Here:
View attachment MS3 Dyno.doc
View attachment MS3 Dyno.doc
justa4banger
Member
- :
- 2007 SILVER MS3
All the Dyno runs were on my 1985 SVO mustang.
2.3 liter
SC50 trim turbo Precision unit
Boport Stg 3 head, Big valves. Flows about 250cfm int. and 185ish ex.
Stg3 Boport Cam .510 lift
Gutted upper intake, knife edge lower
Ebay IC
Motion Dynamics Header
3" elbow, 3" dp
Stock EEC comp with chip/custom tune
Converted to MAF
28 psi
93 octane 3 qts of torco additive
HP Numbers in my sig
Had the original stock trans in it for 165XXX miles. i broke it trying to slap down a 911 turbo porsche.......i would have had him too......
this past march while testing cams for a guy i ended up tossing a rod through the side of the block. I believe i over boosted a few too many time (had issues with the boost reference line and it would over boost to 35psi or close to it. I'm sure this bent a rod and later grenaded the engine.
keep in mind this was all on a STOCK SHORT BLOCK. i only added ARP rod bolts and head studs. Meaning......CAST crank and CAST rods, no Girddles or extra support. A True STOCK SHORT BLOCK.
Next motor will have the same head, cam, bigger turbo, 2.5 stroker (built for 8500 rpm), C4 auto, built rear end and roll cage.
I'm going to try a MS system and 95# injectors, and 100% meth injection.
Sorry for the hijack.
justa4banger
Member
- :
- 2007 SILVER MS3
Maybe due to my Jungle internet connection...... either way thanks for the dyno sheets.
As i see with all other Ms3's the trq curve just falls too fast. Mazda tried to make the car civil by having a small turbo to minimize lag, problem is it can't breath up top. these cars need a better turbo. On the flip side of that a better match turbo will spool slower... my SVO (depending on the cam) is like a light switch at 3700 rpm. under 3500 it could pull a greasy string from a cats butt, BUT over 3700 till redline, it flat SCREAMS. I love racing V8 cars, cause while i'm waiting fo rthe turbo to spool they get a false sense of winning and then the next thing you know i coming flying by them.
the power is good and obviously at 5700 rpm the computer takes over and tries to protect the motor.
I would go to another dyno. these graphs aren't the easiet to read, plus its always better to have trq and hp together on the same graph. then you can see the real relationship between the 2.
As for cams...... they would Help, but the real issue IMO is the lack of high rpm air flow due to such a small turbo. Look at the gains ATP has gotte from a turbo upgrade. not much more trq but the curve is flater thus RAISING HP.
HAS ANYONE DONE A TEST TO SEE WHAT THE EXHAUST MAINFOLD PRESSURE IS???????? a pressure ratio of 1.5/1 is about optimal for fast spool and good top end power. my SVO is 1.4/1 pressure ratio. At 28psi in the intake the exhuast manifold has 40 psi of back pressure before the turbo.
i bet these MS3's have an OUTRAGEOUS amount of Back pressure. COuld account for failing turbo's, the pressure traps heat. I guess i need to search a little.
Sorry for the novels
Well, keep in mind they were color print outs, I then scanned them using a scanning copier, into black and white. At which point I had to degrade the quality to paste it into a Word document... SO you've kind of gotten copy of a copy of a copy (I like pizza Steve).
One of those is TQ and HP on the same graph; I just don't have the energy to click the 'desktop' icon, go into 'my documents' and open the file. LOL. I really want the shop to give me $50 back or something, frankly I don't want them running my car on their dyno again because if they can F this up what else are they stupid about? I don't trust idjits. I want to get my car dyno'd at PG in July and have a test pipe installed.
justa4banger
Member
- :
- 2007 SILVER MS3
If you can find a dynojet Dyno in your area, go to them. First off there are pretty close, second they give the high inflated numbers so people's ego feel good but most importantly they are consistant. Well same dyno compared on mutliple runs over and over, NOT 2 different dynojets.
Dynoing your car is a tool, thats all i ever used it for. I backed up my numbers by dragging R6 motorcycles and running down Cobras. I also frequent the track to get hard data. Oh and last but not least, It doesn't matter if your car makes 45 hp......... if your still smiling at the end of the day, the car is good.
Dynoing your car is a tool, thats all i ever used it for. I backed up my numbers by dragging R6 motorcycles and running down Cobras. I also frequent the track to get hard data. Oh and last but not least, It doesn't matter if your car makes 45 hp......... if your still smiling at the end of the day, the car is good.
no offense justa4banger, but I can't help but notice that you came into the thread, posted your car and s*** and then when you read the dyno all you had to say was what everyone has been saying. kinda....unproductive? I am not trying to be a dick, I am just trying to figure out what the point was. On top of that, it seems like you didn't even read the graphs.
BluMicar, have you had any updates?
BluMicar, have you had any updates?
Nothing yet, still need to find time to get over to the shop, it's been a busy week with doc appts and gymnastics for the 6y/o and all sorts of stuff. I really want to go and at least get an explanation Saturday morning for this fouled up dyno sheet.
Still on board Blu. Do you have another shop to access? I would dyno someplace else, AFTER talking to the new shop to see what is up with them. I bet you will have better feel for whether they are competent techs after your experience! You should have real and accurate sheets before you go to the bad Shop again. They will probably have more bulls***, at which point you whip out your new dyno sheet and say "hmm the torque and hp intersect at about 5250. Do you guys ( the maybe Bad Tuners) think that will mess my motor up? " After that, it is game on! They will have to explain themselves. There might be a logical explanation why the numbers are a little goofy... Have the facts in hand. IMO. good luck
Last edited:
