It doesn't seem like there is any spring assistance on it. When I manually operate the actuator it doesn't feel like there is any spring there to help it return (like on the VTCS). And yes, in regards to the VICS I am talking about the lower actuator. I did notice once that once the engine became fully warmed the actuator would move back to its original position. I am just recalling something that i remember from one of my many instances of working on this car over the last few weeks. I remember "discovering" the actuators and inspecting them. The VICS initially didn't spring back until it warmed up. Keep in mind too that my solenoid was blown. I have ordered a new solenoid which I should have by the weeks end. Hopefully by then I will have cleaned/loosened the actuator/rods up a little. I really don't want to have to get in there an operate on that valve system.... seems like a PITA!
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Dtc: P0300
- Thread starter igidy
- Start date
I dunno,.. I read that entire thread about it and nobody seems to know, I don't even know which way it would be for open or closed. There may be a more informative thread somewhere.
I assume that the butterflies are closed until the 5000 RPM opens them and they only open right at start up to test the system and help keep them operational. (I only hit 5000 RPM once or twice a month).
It does say in the test procedure that the rod extends for 5 seconds at start up but I don't know if that extention opens or closes the butterflies or where the rod sits normally.
That is also a test for the shutter valve actuator. I'm pretty sure that replacing your solenoid won't entirely fix the VICS problem because your rod movement is so stiff or sticky. If when you replace the solenoid and your actuator doesn't move, I would definitely take off that e-clip then try it again to see if the actuator rod moves. Then you know if the friction is in the actuator or the butterfly rod.
I assume that the butterflies are closed until the 5000 RPM opens them and they only open right at start up to test the system and help keep them operational. (I only hit 5000 RPM once or twice a month).
It does say in the test procedure that the rod extends for 5 seconds at start up but I don't know if that extention opens or closes the butterflies or where the rod sits normally.
That is also a test for the shutter valve actuator. I'm pretty sure that replacing your solenoid won't entirely fix the VICS problem because your rod movement is so stiff or sticky. If when you replace the solenoid and your actuator doesn't move, I would definitely take off that e-clip then try it again to see if the actuator rod moves. Then you know if the friction is in the actuator or the butterfly rod.
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I'm also guessing that they are closed until some upper RPM limit, otherwise they wouldn't make sense. I might hit 5000 RPM once a month...if at all. This to me means that if they were shut closed all the time that I shouldn't be running into any issues since they would normally be fully closed all the time anyways...yeh? The only thing I could think of is that the ECU is trying to send a signal to the solenoid AND changing the fuel maps to match the opening solenoid. However, this doesn't explain why it would start misfiring on idle alone. If the engine never gets to a point where the PCM signals the solenoid then it wouldn't get to the point where it changes the fuel maps....?
How about the MAP sensor? I know these should be sensitive enough to throw a code but...ever any problems with em?
How about the MAP sensor? I know these should be sensitive enough to throw a code but...ever any problems with em?
I agree with all that but I'm thinking the butterflies are opened for five seconds at start-up just to help keep things working. I don't know if a Map would be called up or needed for that time because there is so much fuel at start-up and it isn't in closed-loop yet.
Perhaps that sticky operation has something to do with it. If the ECU "exercises" the butterflies at start-up and then yours don't return to fully closed until the car is completely hot , then perhaps your ECU is "learning" to compensate for a partially open butterfly then it gets thrown off when the butterflies do actually close all the way from a good heat soak. ???
I remember disconnecting my battery to adjust the alt. belt then after reconnecting it the car ran like crap at idle while the ECU tried to relearn everything. It almost stalled but didn't throw a code.
Maybe everything is steaming from your sticky valve actuator???
I'm pretty sure we don't have a MAP sensor because we have a MAF instead, but I''ll look into that further (there is some kind of "altitude" type sensor deal but I don't know how much impact it has)
I looked into that sensor and it was the "EGR boost sensor" that I was thinking of. It measures the vacuum pressure in some way but has nothing to do with any other system.
Perhaps that sticky operation has something to do with it. If the ECU "exercises" the butterflies at start-up and then yours don't return to fully closed until the car is completely hot , then perhaps your ECU is "learning" to compensate for a partially open butterfly then it gets thrown off when the butterflies do actually close all the way from a good heat soak. ???
I remember disconnecting my battery to adjust the alt. belt then after reconnecting it the car ran like crap at idle while the ECU tried to relearn everything. It almost stalled but didn't throw a code.
Maybe everything is steaming from your sticky valve actuator???
I'm pretty sure we don't have a MAP sensor because we have a MAF instead, but I''ll look into that further (there is some kind of "altitude" type sensor deal but I don't know how much impact it has)
I looked into that sensor and it was the "EGR boost sensor" that I was thinking of. It measures the vacuum pressure in some way but has nothing to do with any other system.
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Ok, so I pulled the actuator off (e-clip and all) and found out that the spring is within the actuator diaphragm housing. By itself it definitely has spring tension that moves the rod back to its default position. I sprayed some lubricant onto the bearing/seal (?) where the butterfly rod exits the manifold and rotated the rod for quite a bit. After re-applying and manually moving the rod multiple times it seems that rod has eased up and is easier to operate. I even dry fitted the actuator back into place and it seems that the spring can now overcome the "butterfly rod" and move it back to its default spot. I will continue to work it a little more to see if I can ease it up any further.
P.S. the e-clip wasn't so bad. I used a metal pick that could fit under one of the notches and with my finger backing the e-clip I slowly applied force. The e-clipped popped a little but too much. I easily handled it on my finger after pushing it off with the pick. A more difficult e-clip would've probably proved more tricky. I would suggest some lubricant or something just to ensure that the clip slides off as easily as possible.... ?
P.S. the e-clip wasn't so bad. I used a metal pick that could fit under one of the notches and with my finger backing the e-clip I slowly applied force. The e-clipped popped a little but too much. I easily handled it on my finger after pushing it off with the pick. A more difficult e-clip would've probably proved more tricky. I would suggest some lubricant or something just to ensure that the clip slides off as easily as possible.... ?
Hrmmm... still doing it. Heh. never ending. I reinstalled everything and cleaned the IACV and it still misfired after warming up. Funny thing... when I tried starting the car the engine wouldn't fire up. I had to put my battery charger/car starter on it in order for it to have enough juice to crank over. I also noticed a sulfur (rotten egg) smell by the battery. The voltage in the battery is right at 14-14.08 V while the engine is idling (750-800 rpm) and around 12-12.5 while off. This is within spec I believe. I had noticed previously/recently that it felt like I didn't quite have enough juice to turn the engine in the mornings and cold nights.....any ideas?
I did notice one improvement on this problem. Previously while the engine was in its misfiring condition the idle would be really low (500 or so). Also if I were to rev or drive the car and let off the gas the engine would drop to very low rpms and almost die out. Now, it doesn't do that. Even under a misfire the idle is still fine and I can raise and drop the revs without it almost dying.
Also, if you could check for me. When your engine is idling is the VICS actuator/rod "up" or "down"? For me, on idle the actuator is pulling on the rod and is in the "down" position.
I did notice one improvement on this problem. Previously while the engine was in its misfiring condition the idle would be really low (500 or so). Also if I were to rev or drive the car and let off the gas the engine would drop to very low rpms and almost die out. Now, it doesn't do that. Even under a misfire the idle is still fine and I can raise and drop the revs without it almost dying.
Also, if you could check for me. When your engine is idling is the VICS actuator/rod "up" or "down"? For me, on idle the actuator is pulling on the rod and is in the "down" position.
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OK I'm visiting family out of town right now and I'm sitting in my sisters driveway accessing her internet (they aren't home) so I'll give it a go.
I checked the rod before starting the engine and the rod is NOT pulled. After starting the engine the rod WAS pulled and stayed pulled the entire 5 min. I had the engine idling (I found the throttle linkage and revved the engine a few times and the rod stayed pulled.)
The engine was warm and I don't know how the 5 sec. activation thing fits in,... I may not have been quick enough from starting it to looking at it to see it move,... It may have to be from a cold start ??
I reached in and pulled the rod back out by hand to see what it would do and nothing noticeable happened. It took quite a bit of force to pull it. (as far as I know it just open up another shorter air passage,.. the change wasn't noticeable.)
P.S. ... I remember reading about a guy that had engine operation problems and that same "engine won't turn over" issue. It turned out to be the ground clamp on the end of the ground wire that connects to the battery lug. He replaced both the end pieces (pos. and neg.) with bigger lead type lugs and that fixed everything including the rough running engine. I may replace mine just cause OEM are crap and can lead to a lot of strange symptoms like what you're having. He was doing all kinds of different things trying to fix his problem and it all turned out to be a bad connection at the battery.
I checked the rod before starting the engine and the rod is NOT pulled. After starting the engine the rod WAS pulled and stayed pulled the entire 5 min. I had the engine idling (I found the throttle linkage and revved the engine a few times and the rod stayed pulled.)
The engine was warm and I don't know how the 5 sec. activation thing fits in,... I may not have been quick enough from starting it to looking at it to see it move,... It may have to be from a cold start ??
I reached in and pulled the rod back out by hand to see what it would do and nothing noticeable happened. It took quite a bit of force to pull it. (as far as I know it just open up another shorter air passage,.. the change wasn't noticeable.)
P.S. ... I remember reading about a guy that had engine operation problems and that same "engine won't turn over" issue. It turned out to be the ground clamp on the end of the ground wire that connects to the battery lug. He replaced both the end pieces (pos. and neg.) with bigger lead type lugs and that fixed everything including the rough running engine. I may replace mine just cause OEM are crap and can lead to a lot of strange symptoms like what you're having. He was doing all kinds of different things trying to fix his problem and it all turned out to be a bad connection at the battery.
Thanks for checking... that's exactly what mine does. Alright, so I replaced my fried battery and the alternator that was passed at my local auto parts store. The problem still persists. I decided to check my current output from my alternator and found that at idle it is putting out around 12 amps. at 2000-2500 rpms it was still around 12 amps. with blower and lights on it measured 50 amps. by increasing the revs I maxed the current measurement out at 58 amps.
here's whats really funky. during this testing I decided to flip my ammeter over to a/c instead of d/c and I got a measurement of around 3 amps (A/C!!!!). These should not put out any a/c current yeh? most definitely screwed in my mind....any thoughts?
here's whats really funky. during this testing I decided to flip my ammeter over to a/c instead of d/c and I got a measurement of around 3 amps (A/C!!!!). These should not put out any a/c current yeh? most definitely screwed in my mind....any thoughts?
Ok, so I guess this is somewhat normal...? That current is just noise. I threw my ammeter on my other car (Nissan 240SX) and sure enough I had around 1-1.5 A (AC) at idle, and this car runs perfect. I guess I'm on to other diagnosis. My next point of venture will be the TPS and MAP...? About the only things I have yet to check. Any other input is greatly appreciated!
P.S. I check all of my battery/ground connections and they are clean and solid. Plus that wouldn't necessarily be temperature related, would it?
P.S. I check all of my battery/ground connections and they are clean and solid. Plus that wouldn't necessarily be temperature related, would it?
The guy who had the battery ground issue said that his connections seemed fine as well,... he finally just replaced the ends with new lugs from a parts store for about $5 and that fixed everything. That connection could be temperature related and it's relatively cheap and easy to do so it might be a smart idea to do it just to rule it out. That little ground strap around the neg. battery lug has to deliver over 150 AMPS at start-up.
A bad ground can do all kinds of strange things to a car. (one that even looks good too,.. but not designed too well for high current demands.)
That AC reading should be just considered erroneous,... the meter may see a fluctuating DC amperage as AC depending on how it samples the input.
If you only had a bad battery and a new one now, that may make a difference as far as the P0300 code goes,... the voltage and amperage may have stabilized enough to stop the code throwing. And all of that could have been temperature related.
A bad ground can do all kinds of strange things to a car. (one that even looks good too,.. but not designed too well for high current demands.)
That AC reading should be just considered erroneous,... the meter may see a fluctuating DC amperage as AC depending on how it samples the input.
If you only had a bad battery and a new one now, that may make a difference as far as the P0300 code goes,... the voltage and amperage may have stabilized enough to stop the code throwing. And all of that could have been temperature related.
The guy that had the problem only replaced the little strap at the end of the wire that wraps around the battery terminal. He just cut them off and replaced them with those big lead ones (the old school kind). He ended up with a much better connection and the car cranked over right away. Those wire ends that wrap around the battery lug just can't deliver the Amps reliably for cranking the engine over and also caused all his other problems.
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