Cryo treated gears vs GTX gears

[orphman]

Im with turf.......yea you freeze them they get closer.........but then take them out of the freezer what happens? It goes back to how it was..............

using basic logic this would be an wise assumption.... but lets think about something.... you make steel form iron ore... using heat... they are using the temp to remove /add carbon depending on what type of steel. With that in mind... the heat causes material to expand and thats how impureitys are removed... depending on how fast that material is cooled with effect its rigidness its tensile strngth brittleness etc. so... cooling has simialr ways of effecting the metal but in a different manner. We are not talking about ice/water/ and water vapor... where if you freeze water you get ice etc and when it warms back up its "water".... Steel is a solid not a frozen liquid. There for it is effected diffrently under different stress's i.e a slow cool will allow for differnt chemical and covalent bonds to form/break down... a super cool ro supper heat will have similar effects... i m not sure if i made this any clearer but... jsut know its not like what we think of when we thin of "ice" and water etc. besides! WATER expands when frozen... so if you use that logic none of this will make scense


Chad

 

[Bigg Tim]

"logic" means nothing, I like real world proof. I have it so I am going to procede. Why would Nascar and the government use something that defies "logic"? If EMCO does it to all thier gears, why would they do that if it doesn't work? The guy who's tranny lasted 2 years, it did eventually break, but going from 2-3 races to 2 years.......that shows me it does work. Will it be indestructable, NO, but it does make it last long and take abuse longer and that's what matters.

People can read all they want, but something written vs something actually done are 2 different things. Bala de Plata did it to his brakes and they lasted longer. So that's proof enough for me for the brakes. Now I have proof on tranny components, so that's all I need. I have talked to several people who have done it to both and so for I have only heard proof supporting the cryo process. I'll take real world proof vs book smarts any day.(thumb)

 

[zoomzoom02]

Go for it man! Then you can post if it works or not and there we go, end of discussion!

 

[tekkie]

"logic" means nothing, I like real world proof. I have it so I am going to procede. Why would Nascar and the government use something that defies "logic"? If EMCO does it to all thier gears, why would they do that if it doesn't work? The guy who's tranny lasted 2 years, it did eventually break, but going from 2-3 races to 2 years.......that shows me it does work. Will it be indestructable, NO, but it does make it last long and take abuse longer and that's what matters.

People can read all they want, but something written vs something actually done are 2 different things. Bala de Plata did it to his brakes and they lasted longer. So that's proof enough for me for the brakes. Now I have proof on tranny components, so that's all I need. I have talked to several people who have done it to both and so for I have only heard proof supporting the cryo process. I'll take real world proof vs book smarts any day.(thumb)

Tim I plan to swap in the GTX gears and have them Mikronited, I figure I will be a guineau pig

 

[Bigg Tim]

Tim I plan to swap in the GTX gears and have them Mikronited, I figure I will be a guineau pig

Right on!!! We need more options and the only way to get them is for people to try. I was going to get the gears to, because of the luck people have with them down south, but for the price of those compared to what I am getting the cryo done for I can't let it go. It's going to cost $150 to do ALL of the internals of the tranny. The couple gears are twice that right? So I figure what the hell, it's cheaper so even if it doesn't work (which I doubt) it's only $150. I will do axles later as well. Keep us updated on that Mikronite, it sounds like it would be pretty cool as well.

 

[tekkie]

yeah the local shop here said it would cost 16 bucks per gear so its not that expensive

I know the 3-5th gears all use 2 gears I never looked at 1-2

so yeah for 150 bucks you should be able to get all of it done

 

[TurfBurn]

using basic logic this would be an wise assumption.... but lets think about something.... you make steel form iron ore... using heat... they are using the temp to remove /add carbon depending on what type of steel. With that in mind... the heat causes material to expand and thats how impureitys are removed... depending on how fast that material is cooled with effect its rigidness its tensile strngth brittleness etc. so... cooling has simialr ways of effecting the metal but in a different manner. We are not talking about ice/water/ and water vapor... where if you freeze water you get ice etc and when it warms back up its "water".... Steel is a solid not a frozen liquid. There for it is effected diffrently under different stress's i.e a slow cool will allow for differnt chemical and covalent bonds to form/break down... a super cool ro supper heat will have similar effects... i m not sure if i made this any clearer but... jsut know its not like what we think of when we thin of "ice" and water etc. besides! WATER expands when frozen... so if you use that logic none of this will make scense


Chad

problem with all that is steel's structures like martenisite, austenite etc are what give it it's properties and are due to a "solid solution" of the metals in the alloy and the carbon. Elevated temperatures are required. Cooling doesn't DO anything... slowing down the molecules does NOT help them re-arrange in any way. and you can't create greater internal pressure etc either so again it does nothing...

And Tim my point repeatedly is that cryo doesn't DO anything it's the heat treating they do as part of it that likely causes the gains. Temperature cycling or "seasoning" is also a known way to help metal stabilize which is all the cryo is doing in some cases... again it's a gimmick to get you to pay them instead of someone else. Any heat treat place will require detailed alloy information to do the treatment and all these people with brakes and the like don't have that info... so it gets a thermal seasoning and a mild heat treat to relieve some stresses and there is some evidence that all helps wear.. but again it does NOT make the transmission stronger other than the few stresses that it may relieve which is likely why they are getting longer results out of the transmissions. I'm not against trying it eventually, but I have a lot of other sound and logical solutions to try before I try cyro.

 

[ddogg777]

Do you guys notice that these cryotreating places will treat anything you give them...steel, aluminum, uncle Joe...I was into getting this cryo stuff a few years ago. I researched it, considered it, and this is what it comes down to in simple terms for those who hate the engineering stuff.

If the cooling process of a metal product is done incorrectly, you have to start completely over (before cryo-cooling) to reset the graining. Emco does it as part of the production process, if you want it done to your parts you better well find out what temperature they are heating it up to and what final grain structure will result, otherwise you could be doing more harm than good. What you're hoping for is that their all-purpose process (from Jim Bo's Cryogenics) is better than what the manufacturer used...hmmm. BTW, I have some nice property here in AZ for sale, it's really close to the beach.
Rock on boyz, do what you want, it's your money (until you spend it).
Pie are round, not square (a little joke that some might get)

 

[jbrewer4639]

Hmm so no one ever tried it.

 

[Spiced MSP]

only person I know of on here with a cryo treated gearset was Mazdspeed2oo3.5 or something like that. Guy in Spain named Miguel with over 500hp

 

[jbrewer4639]

That's right thanks. Do you know off hand where to get a full GTX gear set.

 

[Spiced MSP]

no, I remember protege garage used to sell I think 3rd and 5th or something like that. But I wouldn't know where to find the rest unless you can find the car itself

 

[jbrewer4639]

Ok thanks. I just got done reading Sig sounds thread, he made
396hp on the stock gears with "normal" driving. Im shooting for 4 to the floor myself. I will keep researching a cheap alternative to par gears but in the meantime I will push my tranny to the limit since it's no longer my dd.

 

[Spiced MSP]

yeah, I watch his dyno vid on youtube every now and then. Definitely a beast

 

[RyanJayG]

Ok thanks. I just got done reading Sig sounds thread, he made
396hp on the stock gears with "normal" driving. Im shooting for 4 to the floor myself. I will keep researching a cheap alternative to par gears but in the meantime I will push my tranny to the limit since it's no longer my dd.

I had been running 350whp at 17-18psi as my daily for the last 8 years and 70,000 miles. I have gone through 2 sets of 3rd gear, one 4th and a broken input shaft. With the most recent being cryo treated transmission internals. I stripped several teeth on 3rd gear a few month back. MFactory is working on internals for us. Please go to this thread. Jump to page 11 or 12 and then read from their. http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?123831775-GI-Stronger-Gear-Set-for-the-MP-MSP

Years back MAM was running a cryo treated internal transmission. Not sure what it all had, but here is the video 505zoom uploaded.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gHgey7NrRo

They broke an axle the next day if memory serves correct. I think it had a welded MSP diff.