Cobb vs CP-E Intake Question
- Thread starter SgtP
- Start date
You forgot to capitalize "sweet". It's a new sentence.
Sacrilicious
boom boom!
- :
- Cosmic Blue MS3 of hawtness!
iono about you, but who is this "geebus" character? (eek2)
yes, i was two or three washers short. someone is sleeping on the job.
Or they can't count to 4. Oh well at least they didn't forget the filter.
Unoriginaluser
Member
maybe i shouldn't have sold my ms so fast before trying the cobb lol... oh well the accessibility and sound are enough benefits, and with a TBE you've gained enough hp not sure 1 or 2 would even be perceptible
The primary difference between a CAI and SRS can't really be seen on a dyno. The fact that the hood is up, and a giant fan is blowing air across the open engine, negates the primary negative of a short ram. It pulls in hot engine bay air.
Generally you'll see nearly the same performance on a dyno from an Short Ram vs CAI, and different performance once on the street. Unless you have some method of ensuring that cool air is being drawn in by the short ram, it will perform worse once it starts sucking in that hot engine bay heat.
And yes, the turbo is still the primary heat producer of the charge temp, but every little bit counts. Never discount the intake out of the equation just because you feel that it's primarily the intercooler's job to keep those temps down and prevent detonation. It starts at the intake. 10F less intake temp is 10F less heat to the turbo, 10F less heat to the intercooler, 10F less heat to the manifold, 10F less heat into the combustion chamber.
And 10F of heat doesn't sound like much...unless it means that the car doesn't retard timing to prevent knock.
Now before every SRI owner has a hissy fit and starts pulling random quotes from owners who just put products on and give butt dyno reports...
It is completely feasible for a short ram to be just as effective as a cold air intake "IF" the short ram has proper ducting and shielding around it. If you provide a cool air source to the short ram, and if you provide some sort of shielding from the engine bay (many manufacturers provide some sort of enclosure so the filter isn't exposed to the engine bay), you can easily match the temps seen by cold air intakes without any of the side effects of a longer tube, or the exposure to possible water.
Generally you'll see nearly the same performance on a dyno from an Short Ram vs CAI, and different performance once on the street. Unless you have some method of ensuring that cool air is being drawn in by the short ram, it will perform worse once it starts sucking in that hot engine bay heat.
And yes, the turbo is still the primary heat producer of the charge temp, but every little bit counts. Never discount the intake out of the equation just because you feel that it's primarily the intercooler's job to keep those temps down and prevent detonation. It starts at the intake. 10F less intake temp is 10F less heat to the turbo, 10F less heat to the intercooler, 10F less heat to the manifold, 10F less heat into the combustion chamber.
And 10F of heat doesn't sound like much...unless it means that the car doesn't retard timing to prevent knock.
Now before every SRI owner has a hissy fit and starts pulling random quotes from owners who just put products on and give butt dyno reports...
It is completely feasible for a short ram to be just as effective as a cold air intake "IF" the short ram has proper ducting and shielding around it. If you provide a cool air source to the short ram, and if you provide some sort of shielding from the engine bay (many manufacturers provide some sort of enclosure so the filter isn't exposed to the engine bay), you can easily match the temps seen by cold air intakes without any of the side effects of a longer tube, or the exposure to possible water.
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Unoriginaluser
Member
there is a post somewhere (looking) that someone with a dashhawk comared the temps.... long story short at idle the SRI temps shot up higher but actually returned to the same when moving as the cai
In what scenario though? On the street? On the track? On the strip?
If you're cruising on the hwy at 65, using barely any engine hp whatsoever, with no turbo spool, and the temps are similar, I don't care. I want to see temps at 130+ mph on the main straight at VIR, pegged at redline, with the turbo screaming bloody pressurized fury.
In that situation, I've walked a similar spec'd mazda6 with a CAI vs an SRI. (Track, Virgina international raceway) Of course not the same car, but thats an example I have for reference. If the mazda 3 has insano engine bay turbulence, then maybe it doesn't matter for this particular application. Thus you'll never find me putting an Short ram in one of my cars, unless there is some way to shield and duct cool air to it. Thus when my White Sport Ms3 arrives soon, I'll be putting the CP-E intake in it. Of course I'm heavily biased towards CP-E. Their shop is down the street from me. I've met them all in person. I've watched them research, design, and test their products first hand. They are, IMHO, one of the best aftermarket companies in the business. I've seen the type of testing AEM, Injen, and other big name companies have done...it pales in comparison to their work.
I guarentee if anyone on this forum went to CP-E's shop, and talked to lou for just a few minutes, you'd never look at another aftermarket company the same way ever again. Those guys are frigging geniuses. Anyone who can find a junked cnc machine, repair it, and then completely reprogram it to take digital computerized inputs is worth my money any day of the week! I have no doubt they can do anything if they had 100% owner support.
If you're cruising on the hwy at 65, using barely any engine hp whatsoever, with no turbo spool, and the temps are similar, I don't care. I want to see temps at 130+ mph on the main straight at VIR, pegged at redline, with the turbo screaming bloody pressurized fury.
In that situation, I've walked a similar spec'd mazda6 with a CAI vs an SRI. (Track, Virgina international raceway) Of course not the same car, but thats an example I have for reference. If the mazda 3 has insano engine bay turbulence, then maybe it doesn't matter for this particular application. Thus you'll never find me putting an Short ram in one of my cars, unless there is some way to shield and duct cool air to it. Thus when my White Sport Ms3 arrives soon, I'll be putting the CP-E intake in it. Of course I'm heavily biased towards CP-E. Their shop is down the street from me. I've met them all in person. I've watched them research, design, and test their products first hand. They are, IMHO, one of the best aftermarket companies in the business. I've seen the type of testing AEM, Injen, and other big name companies have done...it pales in comparison to their work.
I guarentee if anyone on this forum went to CP-E's shop, and talked to lou for just a few minutes, you'd never look at another aftermarket company the same way ever again. Those guys are frigging geniuses. Anyone who can find a junked cnc machine, repair it, and then completely reprogram it to take digital computerized inputs is worth my money any day of the week! I have no doubt they can do anything if they had 100% owner support.
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Sacrilicious
boom boom!
- :
- Cosmic Blue MS3 of hawtness!
you can NOT compare a turbocharged car with a NA car when it comes to CAI/SRI comparisons. it's NOT a straight X degrees difference in temp after you go through our turbo and intercooler. remember, your intake air is:
1. compressed to 15-16PSI, which obviously raises temp by a whole hell of a lot to begin with.
2. cooled by the intercooler using air of ambient temp.
this means that the temp difference between ramming in intake air of differing temps gets reduced severely.
also, you do not need to be driving very fast (30+mph will easily do) before the SRI air temp is the same as CAI air temp because of all the air being pushed into the engine bay. cobb posted about this a while back, and said they really did not see a need to make anything other than a SRI for our car. the only reason they're even going to making the heat shield for this car is just because there are so many stubborn people out there that STILL categorically deny the possibility that they (cobb) may be right. cobb is definitely every bit as competent as CP-E, so don't even bother going there.
quite honestly, there's like a hundred threads on this topic throughout these and every other MS3 forum out there. i'm sick and tired of explaining things, so if you want more details, feel free to search for it.
1. compressed to 15-16PSI, which obviously raises temp by a whole hell of a lot to begin with.
2. cooled by the intercooler using air of ambient temp.
this means that the temp difference between ramming in intake air of differing temps gets reduced severely.
also, you do not need to be driving very fast (30+mph will easily do) before the SRI air temp is the same as CAI air temp because of all the air being pushed into the engine bay. cobb posted about this a while back, and said they really did not see a need to make anything other than a SRI for our car. the only reason they're even going to making the heat shield for this car is just because there are so many stubborn people out there that STILL categorically deny the possibility that they (cobb) may be right. cobb is definitely every bit as competent as CP-E, so don't even bother going there.
quite honestly, there's like a hundred threads on this topic throughout these and every other MS3 forum out there. i'm sick and tired of explaining things, so if you want more details, feel free to search for it.
Unoriginaluser
Member
+1 pretty much exactly what I would have said. I think either way you're getting a lot more performance for your money with the SRI. (at least w/ this car)
I'm not voting because I have both. I've enjoyed the CPE CAI for the better part of the year that I've had it. Once the AP is released, on goes the Cobb SRI.
If CPE ever comes out with something that is better than the Cobb AP + SRI + *insert other Cobb products here*, then the CPE goes back on.
I've been driving my '00 Mustang GT that is lowered on H&R Super Sports the past couple of days and I gotta say my back is killing me. Granted, being lowered on Cobb springs or whatever other springs may not be as harsh as the H&R Super Sports, but not lowering my car allowed me to have both intakes with money left over for when the AP is released.
It'll probably be another year before I even think about exhaust mods.
If CPE ever comes out with something that is better than the Cobb AP + SRI + *insert other Cobb products here*, then the CPE goes back on.
I've been driving my '00 Mustang GT that is lowered on H&R Super Sports the past couple of days and I gotta say my back is killing me. Granted, being lowered on Cobb springs or whatever other springs may not be as harsh as the H&R Super Sports, but not lowering my car allowed me to have both intakes with money left over for when the AP is released.
It'll probably be another year before I even think about exhaust mods.
