Cobb AP Discussion Thread

[Blendercloud]

I have an 07 ms3 with forge bpv, mazdaspeed cai, test pipe, and pg tip. I am running the stage 1 + mscai2 93 map. my boost has been spiking to 22.2 psi. Is this caused by the test pipe? Should I be using the stage 2 map. Also, I have just received my 1 step colder plugs, but have not installed them yet (it has been cold as hell around here). Could this help? I have also been getting a lot of kr under light acceleration. Will the plugs help with the kr? Any advise you guys can give me is greatly appreciated.

Yes, plugs will help a little bit with the KR. Yes, you should probably be running a stage 2 map with that test pipe. And yes, the test pipe could be a contributing factor as it removes back pressure from the turbo and will cause it to spool a little bit more quickly. Do a datalog and review it to make sure that even though you are seeing a spike to 22.2psi that it is indeed only a spike. If you find yourself holding that boost pressure at WOT for more than 600-800 revs, you're overboosting.

You may also be experiencing that spike (as well as the added KR) because of how cold it has been in our area lately. The colder it is, the more condensed your air charge will be. More air needs more fuel and your fuel trims probably haven't quite adjusted (and their adjustment may not be enough without a fuel pump upgrade).

 

[spec2k5]

Yes, plugs will help a little bit with the KR. Yes, you should probably be running a stage 2 map with that test pipe. And yes, the test pipe could be a contributing factor as it removes back pressure from the turbo and will cause it to spool a little bit more quickly. Do a datalog and review it to make sure that even though you are seeing a spike to 22.2psi that it is indeed only a spike. If you find yourself holding that boost pressure at WOT for more than 600-800 revs, you're overboosting.

You may also be experiencing that spike (as well as the added KR) because of how cold it has been in our area lately. The colder it is, the more condensed your air charge will be. More air needs more fuel and your fuel trims probably haven't quite adjusted (and their adjustment may not be enough without a fuel pump upgrade).

Thanks Chris, I really appreciate the input. I tried the stage 2, but changed back to stage 1 when we got the snow. I will try it again, and after 50 to 100 miles I will do a data log. I will post here for input. When data logging, what is the best way to do it? Should I go easy for a while, then run it hard? I am trying to be safe with this car, since it is my dd, but still want to have fun.

 

[Mistersix]

same question. what should you do when datalogging. maybe a 3rd gear pull?

 

[Blendercloud]

First and second gears run off different boost tables than third. The boost values are lower for those gears to prevent over-revving, and snapping drivetrain components. You will not experience a "full boost" until third. That is why it is recommended that you start about about 2500-3000 revs in third and datalog the WOT run.

You can actually install the map, do a little bit of normal driving (5-10 miles) to make sure the car is running properly, then do a WOT pull. All that mumbo-jumbo we thought about the car having to "learn" the map was disproved by Cobb. Sure, your fuel trims are going to settle in a lot in those first miles, but in actuality it isn't going to change much in the long-run of having that map installed.

 

[coyfish]

What map are you running blend ?? We have the same mods.

 

[Mzumel]

Got the Cobb AP Monday 1/11/2010

MODS: Corksport 3" CAT-BACK, MSCAI, HKS SSQV
Elevation: 16ft
Temp of Data Log: 33-35deg f

Ok Guys, something "weird" is going on that I have never experience on my car. I felt this "nudge" ~5700rpm @ 3rd and ~6000rpm @4th. The best I can describe it is as if an ant lost it's way on the line for a split sec. and found the line back again and everything was normal. Like it stuttered, after the feeling it still climbed RPMs and power was still there on both ocassions.

I have higlighted in red where I felt the "hiccup" on the attached datalog, I want to hear your thoughts and any input.

View attachment 1-12-2010 806am-808am.xls

 

[Qwik6]

wish I could look at the datalog but my excel has expired. Seems like fuel cut from the sounds of it.

 

[Mzumel]

wish I could look at the datalog but my excel has expired. Seems like fuel cut from the sounds of it.

Is that a bad thing or a good thing?

 

[Qwik6]

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123753976&highlight=fuel+cut

 

[bova80]

i'm gonna go with spark blow out over fuel cut just because i don't see your pressure drop at all. but it could also be from the cold weather and be boost cut.

 

[Blendercloud]

What map are you running blend ?? We have the same mods.

Stage 2 TMIC 93-octane map.


Mzumel,

You've done a great job dissecting and labeling this datalog. However, it would help if the intervals recorded were more frequent. You can do that by removing some of the fields required to datalog. For next time, please do not datalog the vehicle speed and throttle position.

When I look at the first occurance (3rd gear), your fuel pressure drops by about 65psi. Around that same event your AFR spikes. However, in the second occurance (4th gear) none of those things are recorded. This leads me to believe they are either two different events, or that we are missing some vital information that would have been recorded within the intervals not shown on the datalog.

 

[FORZDA 1]

What I see is the OEM ECU trying to stay within boost/load parameters. Indeed it does look like a short fuel cut the first time and the recovery from the KR the second. What AP map are you running? There are some problems in the AFR tables that cause similar hesitations as the motor recovers from a WOT shift. Replace the vehicle speed parameter with LTFT in your logs. The LTFT is a great indicator of fueling activity and the LTFT clearly shows the transition from closed loop to open loop. You can set the data record rate in the AP Manager tools as well.

 

[Mzumel]

i'm gonna go with spark blow out over fuel cut just because i don't see your pressure drop at all. but it could also be from the cold weather and be boost cut.

Spark Blow out, what does that mean? Still learning I'm basically a blank canvas hehe...

Stage 2 TMIC 93-octane map.


Mzumel,

You've done a great job dissecting and labeling this datalog. However, it would help if the intervals recorded were more frequent. You can do that by removing some of the fields required to datalog. For next time, please do not datalog the vehicle speed and throttle position.

When I look at the first occurance (3rd gear), your fuel pressure drops by about 65psi. Around that same event your AFR spikes. However, in the second occurance (4th gear) none of those things are recorded. This leads me to believe they are either two different events, or that we are missing some vital information that would have been recorded within the intervals not shown on the datalog.

How do you do that? To acheive more interval you have to have less paramameters logging?

What I see is the OEM ECU trying to stay within boost/load parameters. Indeed it does look like a short fuel cut the first time and the recovery from the KR the second. What AP map are you running? There are some problems in the AFR tables that cause similar hesitations as the motor recovers from a WOT shift. Replace the vehicle speed parameter with LTFT in your logs. The LTFT is a great indicator of fueling activity and the LTFT clearly shows the transition from closed loop to open loop. You can set the data record rate in the AP Manager tools as well.

Ap Map: Stage1+SF 93 102v
What is KR, LTFT?
How do i set the data record rate in the AP Manager Tools?

 

[Mzumel]

1/14/2010 8:10-8:11am

Another one for you guys. After posting last night I stumbled into mzspd.com and found this map; Stage1+MSCAI 93 102v. (This datalog was prior to the post above so i just checked everything to see what everything is doing)

Here are the Parameters:

MODS: Corksport 3" CAT-BACK, MSCAI, HKS SSQV
Elevation: 16ft
Conditions: 47-49 deg
Map: Stage1+MSCAI 93 102v

The same "Hiccup" I felt on top of 3rd twice highlighted in RED. Seems like it only does it when I go through gears. I have not yet recorded

View attachment Datalog 2 WOT 1st-3rd 1-14-2010.xls

Does anyone know what is going on? I would like your opinions, comments , inputs, etc.

On a side note I have a ETS 3.25 TMIC ready to be installed this weekend, will the addition of this mod make the "hiccup" worse or make it go away?

 

[FORZDA 1]

Spark Blow out, what does that mean? Still learning I'm basically a blank canvas hehe...

Spark blowout is when the plug can't light the mixture due to a number of reasons, mainly from the plug gap too large.

What is KR, LTFT?

KR is Knock Retard and LTFT is Long Term Fuel Trim

How do i set the data record rate in the AP Manager Tools?

I forget the menu right now, but will reply this evening when I get on my home `puter.

 

[FORZDA 1]

.....Does anyone know what is going on? I would like your opinions, comments , inputs, etc.

Can't tell for sure based on the data log. Will need to review the log along side the AP map to see what might be goofy. I'll pull up the map tonight and see if anything jumps out. There is a known issue with the AFR (Air Fuel Ratio) in one of the tables.

On a side note I have a ETS 3.25 TMIC ready to be installed this weekend, will the addition of this mod make the "hiccup" worse or make it go away?

Can't say for sure, but no reason to wait if you have the parts. Go for it.

 

[Mzumel]

Can't tell for sure based on the data log. Will need to review the log along side the AP map to see what might be goofy. I'll pull up the map tonight and see if anything jumps out. There is a known issue with the AFR (Air Fuel Ratio) in one of the tables.



Can't say for sure, but no reason to wait if you have the parts. Go for it.

So you would download the Stage 1 +MSCAI 93 102v and study it with the most recent datalog?

 

[spec2k5]

Ok fellas. I was able to get a couple logs today. Not quite to redline, but should be enough. First is a 3rd gear pull. Second is second through fourth, and the last one is slow acceleration. Tell me what you guys think. This is a stage 2 mscai2 map.

 

[FORZDA 1]

So you would download the Stage 1 +MSCAI 93 102v and study it with the most recent datalog?

Yes...., but I didn't get to it last night.

 

[TheCampo]

So from reading these last couple posts it does not seem like purchasing an AP is going to alleviate my fuel cuts . Hate winter....

Thoughts and experiences with removing fuel cut issues?