Bolt Up Replacement Turbocharger Upgrade

[8.5MS3]

Hello all.

There is a big problem with the turbochargers on the MS3/6/cx7. I have taken apart a bunch of them and this is what I find...

The turbo is a KKK K04. The smoking problem is b/c of a combination of several things.

• weak crank case ventilation
• too much oil pressure
• not enough backpressure to equilize crank case pressure
• improper tolerances in turbocahrger

We all know mazdas fixes. CCV update, synthetic oil change, oil restriction, and also their turbo replacement. All of which is not going to solve their issues 100%.

I take apart these turbochargers and I see something right off the bat that is waaaay out of wack. The compressor seal is nearly .012"! This tolerance is supposed to be .0025-.003".

What is happening is the boost from the compressor housing is blowing into the bearing housing through that gap and causing the oil to not flow properly to the oil pan. The oil backs up and the level rises in the bearing housing of the turbocharger until it leaks through the turbine seal which is on the exhaust side that has a gap of .010". When it seaps through that gap, it enters the exhaust system causing your smoking...

I have a fix for the issue and it requires a build up of the turbocharger. It has a total seal on the compressor side so no boost enters the crank case! Not to mension a reliability increase and performance increase.

Bryan@BNR

Take it away Bryan....

 

[Bryan@BNR]

Thanks a bunch.

My name is Bryan Nickell and I am a Newbie to the mazdaforums. Some of you may have heard of BNR Supercars, some may have not.

I was approached by an RX7 person that had a Mazdaspeed 3. He told me about all their problems with turbochargers and companies offering an unreliable product. So I bought some turbocharger cores and determined cause of problems.

Since I joined S U F and also MS6F, I really saw a need that had to be met. Mazda really needs my help, but I have to be some establishment like Garrett, IHI, MHI or whatever to get contracts with Mazda. I can understand thier point but KKK isn't going to find or fix the existing problems. I went pretty high up in the Mazda Head Quarters but I have to be a big corp in order to get a manufacturing contract with them.

I guess Mazda will just have to replace millions of dollars worth of junk turbos, just to turn around and do it again. Then when warranty runs out, its on the consumer. Thats the point of them finding solutions, they hope they bandaid the real problem until its out of warranty...


Bryan@BNR

 

[pidass15]

wouldn't putting in a restrictor pill in the oil line going to the turbo that PT Performance sells solve the problem of too much oil pressure?

 

[BillTheCat]

Thanks for posting that info. Sounds like the compressor seal is basically FUBAR'ed from the factory. I'm suddenly feeling like my savings account should be re-named "turbo rehab account" now.

 

[byau]

interesting...

 

[ElGaspo]

awww Jeezum Crow! Whatta way to start a friday morning! (coffee) subbing to thread to read up on developments. guess the turbo might end being being the proverbial Damocles' sword...

 

[Speed3Rookie]

wow...for the $$ i'm having to spend on this pos i could've bought a vett.

 

[8.5MS3]

With the kit you proposed on the other thread, how will this affect spool up times? what is the new cfm rating, max rpm, etc? any efficiency curves?

 

[opt_ms3]

yeah sounds like something that Mazda would do. just trying to get out of paying every buck they can.

 

[Bryan@BNR]

With the kit you proposed on the other thread, how will this affect spool up times? what is the new cfm rating, max rpm, etc? any efficiency curves?

It shouldn't be hard to spool. I would estimate spool to be close to stock levels. I wouldn't want to hinder response at all. Since the engines are good for 400 HP, why not have a turbo capable of around that, and maximize its potential. Powerband will be impressive, mid range TQ will be great. It will make a great street car...

I just wanted to make a robust, reliable replacement. HP improvements just come with the package (pullup). Here are some pictures of the units.

 

[8.5MS3]

what about the top end? the k04 drops dead at around 5500, still got an extra grand on the tach thats useless.....would like to use that

 

[Bryan@BNR]

what is happening when the boost drops and the top end falls off, that means that either the turbine wheel, compressor wheel, or turbine housing is your problem. I know its not the turbine housing b/c it is a decent size. Its either the turbine or the compressor wheel that is holding you back.

The stage 2 would be your best bet...

 

[Tooch]

i've heard the motor is solid to around 350 then after that your likely to throw a rod/ blow up etc

 

[714ms3]

i've heard the motor is solid to around 350 then after that your likely to throw a rod/ blow up etc

Actually, Darrell Cox Racing believes that our internals on the stock motor are capable of way over 350 HP, we just need to fully crack the ECU to stop the BOOM!

 

[Bryan@BNR]

They already have forged internals from what I hear. Anything that runs 18 plus psi of boost stock has to have pretty strong bottom ends. Tuning is the key!

 

[Mid_Life_Crisis]

Garret makes a boltin performance replacement center section for the K4.

Of course the ad does say "select applications".
No I did not inquire. Turbo upgrades are out of my price range right now.

 

[Bryan@BNR]

Its not bolt in Garrett replacement. I have these CHRA's custom built using a bearing housing that is custom made for me by Garrett. They can't sell it to anyone else. I had it custom made for other applications which is very similar to these K04 builds. The turbo end housings endure lots of change to accept what I am putting in them. But they are even better quality than when they came new .

 

[bykeryder4life]

wouldn't putting in a restrictor pill in the oil line going to the turbo that PT Performance sells solve the problem of too much oil pressure?

Ya a guy that goes under the name bnoon has been making banjo bolts that work as a restrictor for the oil feed line to the turbo and they are proven to stop smoking. Ptp has some stuff in the works as well.

They already have forged internals from what I hear. Anything that runs 18 plus psi of boost stock has to have pretty strong bottom ends. Tuning is the key!

Yup, tuning is all its about. We dont need bigger/new turbos or more manifolds etc etc... to make power. not to crap on your thread introducing a new product but stopping smoking on this car you just need lower the oil pressure going into the turbo since mazda runs it too high. thats a small issue on this car IMO. but honestly, this car needs to be tuned in BOTH open and closed loop. Its the closed loop operation that kills this motor, running stoich with a s***-ton of timing on the threshold of knocking and being able to hit decent amounts of boost before the open loop transition are what weakens the bottom end and eventually breaks it.

 

[Bryan@BNR]

Ya a guy that goes under the name bnoon has been making banjo bolts that work as a restrictor for the oil feed line to the turbo and they are proven to stop smoking. Ptp has some stuff in the works as well.


Yup, tuning is all its about. We dont need bigger/new turbos or more manifolds etc etc... to make power. not to crap on your thread introducing a new product but stopping smoking on this car you just need lower the oil pressure going into the turbo since mazda runs it too high. thats a small issue on this car IMO. but honestly, this car needs to be tuned in BOTH open and closed loop. Its the closed loop operation that kills this motor, running stoich with a s***-ton of timing on the threshold of knocking and being able to hit decent amounts of boost before the open loop transition are what weakens the bottom end and eventually breaks it.

I am just stating that there is a huge problem with the turbochargers. It may run fine on one car but on another it could have the issues. When you restrict oil flow to a turbo that spins 220K RPM, that is very risky. The K04's turn about twiced as fast as a normal garrett turbo.

BTW there is no comparing the Garrett to the K04. The K04 has a puny shaft, and a tiny thrust bearing, small thrust collars. Not made to withstand any error. Would you like a picture to compare the component pieces?

 

[8.5MS3]

ive never understood why starving a journal bearing to stop smoking is a solution. IMO that reduces the life of the turbo drastically since it needs oil not only for lubrication, but cooling as well. metal fatigue will eventually cause droop, misshapen turbine blades and eventually imbalance and big failure. sure it may work short term but in the long run its still a bandaid fix and could cause major issues a couple thousand miles down the road...not to mention that now that your choking off oil, oil pressure before the restrictor pill has now been increased, and that cant be good either