AWD question

[bxpretzel]

Perhaps I should buy a Hummer?
This link is worth a read, its on the last page, but its all worth reading as it has easy to understand animations.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/four-wheel-drive4.htm

If you really do want to be able to go *anywhere* in a vehicle, get one of the original Hummers (H1). I've driven a heavily modified version of the H1 on a built trail in Montana (like, engineered to be a difficult-to-maneuver through trail) and it absolutely blew my mind the type of terrain we were able to pass over with ease. The driving instructor told us that if not for the front bumper, the H1 can scale a cement wall at a 90 degree angle.

But if you're not periodically driving through unpaved mountain passes...you probably don't need one.

 

[MikeM.]

But if you're not periodically driving through unpaved mountain passes...you probably don't need one.

When driving on icy roads the Hummer H1 suffers from the same downsides as most heavy duty 4WD's. It breaks traction too easily. And the slipperier the surface, the more dangerous it is. Scary dangerous.

When I say the CX-5 is excellent on winter roads because the AWD system is "sensitive", the Hummer is the exact opposite. Owners of these rigs can testify how inept they are on low traction surfaces. But they can tow well, just not on ice. The other limitation on Hummers is they are not exactly nimble. This is fine in a desert or rocky wasteland but not in the PNW where we actually have trees. The H1 is too wide to traverse old Forest Service roads my CX-5 can do with ease.

And talk about gutless on public highways, my 2.0L CX-5 can leave them in the dust!

Two completely different types of vehicles. One has very limited practicality.

 

[Chris_Top_Her]

So are those single wheel pogo sticks worth putting under the tow bar? I can't seem to find a picture, but I've seen them. It almost looks like a wheel jack attachment, except for road use.

 

[xtrailman]

Found this but unsure if its the present system or the revised one due out.

https://www.mazda.co.nz/innovation/driving-engine-technology/active-torque-split-ats-all-wheel-drive

 

[xtrailman]

Also this.
I does come across as an advert, and isn't very scientific but maybe worth watching.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HB...eature=iv&annotation_id=annotation_3162918585

 

[Kedis82ZE8]

Found this but unsure if its the present system or the revised one due out.

https://www.mazda.co.nz/innovation/driving-engine-technology/active-torque-split-ats-all-wheel-drive

If there are any AWD changes it could just be a modification of the programming and no new hardware.

 

[xtrailman]

I've read the changes are too increase efficiency.

 

[MikeM.]

Found this but unsure if its the present system or the revised one due out.

https://www.mazda.co.nz/innovation/driving-engine-technology/active-torque-split-ats-all-wheel-drive

The CX-5 shares AWD systems with the CX-9 and that video was out before Mazda announced any AWD improvements so it's the same system.

I agree, improvements are likely software tweaks. Mazda would be unlikely to announce it, even if you could get the same improvements with a software update, because they would rather sell you a new "improved" vehicle.

 

[MikeM.]

Also this.
I does come across as an advert, and isn't very scientific but maybe worth watching.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HB...eature=iv&annotation_id=annotation_3162918585

If you like watching Subaru commercials masquerading as a real test then it's worth watching.

The last test was almost exactly the same conditions I drove yesterday only the road I was on was more rugged (uneven), considerably steeper and the snow sloppier. The "test" in the video is primarily a test of the OEM tires of the different vehicles. I imagine the Subaru comes with tires better for snow. While my Goodyear IceGrip WRT's are about the last snow tire I would choose for sloppy corn snow, they, combined with the CX-5's Active Torque Split, handled the steeper deeper sections without drama.

Tires make more difference than any difference in the AWD systems.

 

[ALafya]

Subaru AWD are actually different systems whether you get a manual or an automatic transmission.
With the manual you get close to constant 50:50 distribution with viscous coupling and with the automatic you get a mechanical system which is very similar to that of the CX-5, where distribution is variable but is up to 50% to the back.

Regarding the system which comes with the AT, there are a few differences however:
* Subaru sends some power to the back all the time, not on demand and even is steady state of driving straight and in constant speed (at least, that's their claim).
* Subaru applies an individual wheel brake to introduce some friction and have some of the torque be sent to the other wheels, which have some traction. In the wet grass case, this would prevent all power to escape through the front wheels. I am not sure if Mazda has this feature or not.
* Subaru "X Mode" (not available on all trims) is probably a set of smarter logic which can be applied on low speed conditions. So, instead of deactivating traction control, which is to say that you know better than the system, you activate "X Mode" and let the system figure it out. "X Mode" is partly what helped the Forester get to the top of the incline without sliding.

However, Subaru does not have low gear setting, it does not have locking differentials and it can't send more than 50% to the back. I think it's system is slightly better, mostly because of better logic.

 

[Kedis82ZE8]

* Subaru applies an individual wheel brake to introduce some friction and have some of the torque be sent to the other wheels, which have some traction. In the wet grass case, this would prevent all power to escape through the front wheels. I am not sure if Mazda has this feature or not.
* Subaru "X Mode" (not available on all trims) is probably a set of smarter logic which can be applied on low speed conditions. So, instead of deactivating traction control, which is to say that you know better than the system, you activate "X Mode" and let the system figure it out. "X Mode" is partly what helped the Forester get to the top of the incline without sliding.

My Infiniti is similar to that. It will simulate a mechanical LSD on the rear by braking the spinning wheel. It also has a snow mode that desensitizes the accelerator and makes stability control extremely aggressive.

 

[xtrailman]

Ok finally got a reply from Mazda.

"
Mazda Information Centre‏
CIM@mazdaeur.com (CIM@mazdaeur.com)

10:50
CIM@mazdaeur.com
Dear Mr

Re: 1-1775868872

My technical team have now got back to me in regards to your enquiry, please see response below:

The AWD system in the CX-5 is not marketed as a full-time four wheel drive system, and is really only a device to assist the vehicle in getting off wet fields etc. As you would when towing a caravan.

The system has torque limitation, whereby it will cut off power to the electronically controlled rear AWD coupling if the level of wheel spin detected at the front wheels is too high, to prevent damage to the AWD system.

In normal driving conditions, all drive is supplied to the front wheels only, however, when wheel slip or wheel spin is detected, up to 50 of the torque can be transferred to the rear wheels by means of an electronically controlled rear coupling, although this is of course a maximum, which the amount of torque being transferred being constantly variable. The system may also not operate if the temperature of the oil in the rear differential is too high, or if the handbrake is applied – In the case of the video, it could well be that the handbrake has been applied to prevent the vehicle rolling back down the slope, which would also prevent any drive been sent to the rear electronic coupling

I have checked with the brand team, and also the technical information we have available to us, and there is no information relating to an upgrade or improvements to the AWD system on this model.

If you have any further questions feel free to call us on 03457 48 48 48. We are here between 9.00am to 6.00pm Monday to Friday.

Yours Sincerely

Martina Reed

Customer Relations Executive
_____________________________
Mazda Motors UK
Anchor Boulevard, Dartford, Kent DA2 6SL
Phone: 03457 484848"

 

[Conn]

Lol this had to be one of the most annoying threads I've ever read. The back and forth about what is what and how the AWD works. A lot of interesting points and facts about the system. Most of the videos seem to be nonsense, one should only take with a grain of salt. Granted Subaru's are known for their AWD systems, the videos really seem more like commercials than anything. The other video where a guy is comparing the CX-5, Subie and BMW on a wet grassy incline... All I have to say about any of these videos is REALLY?? REALLY, as in this is how people judge AWD capability?!?!? Go rent the cars your interested in getting, pay extra for insurance in case you total it and test it to the limits. IMO having driven in real world, NOT off-road conditions, getting through inclement weather and sub-par road conditions comes down to experience FIRST. With experience one can include common sense/understanding which some people lack. After those TWO main things comes equipment... Tires, AWD/4WD systems, ground clearance, the list goes on in differences of equipment. The bottom line is, everyone has a different style of driving or different technique. Only YOU can find out what works best by testing it for yourself. Look at what I drive. I drove in 4-6inches of what I'll say was tossed snow, not packed. Drove on the highway up inclines etc. It was a b**** and stressful as s***. Getting through it involved not going too slow, not going too fast and actively steering/correcting to maintain control of the vehicle. I have knock of all season tires on the car which are also in piss poor condition. All I am saying is driving in s*** weather on the road comes down to what I mentioned was most important: experience/common sense/understanding.
I know this thread was about a variation of conditions but s*** it was annoying to read. Sorry, end of rant.

 

[MikeM.]

I know this thread was about a variation of conditions but s*** it was annoying to read. Sorry, end of rant.

And your contribution was the shining example, the literary masterpiece at the end.

Good thing I read this thread all the way to the end or I would have missed the only worthwhile post.(yawn)

 

[Conn]

And your contribution was the shining example, the literary masterpiece at the end.

Good thing I read this thread all the way to the end or I would have missed the only worthwhile post.(yawn)

Forgive me that I could not add any true substance to the thread(2thumbs).. It is easy to get annoyed because some people get the idea that just because a vehicle is equipped with AWD or 4WD means that they can get through anything or over anything. And then when these systems fail them, they immediately rush to judgement about how the vehicle responded.

 

[xtrailman]

Forgive me that I could not add any true substance to the thread(2thumbs).. It is easy to get annoyed because some people get the idea that just because a vehicle is equipped with AWD or 4WD means that they can get through anything or over anything. And then when these systems fail them, they immediately rush to judgement about how the vehicle responded.

What are you rambling on about?

 

[Della1234]

Forgive me that I could not add any true substance to the thread(2thumbs).. It is easy to get annoyed because some people get the idea that just because a vehicle is equipped with AWD or 4WD means that they can get through anything or over anything. And then when these systems fail them, they immediately rush to judgement about how the vehicle responded.

I agree. A couple of years ago West Tennessee had a terrible snow/ice storm a few days before Christmas. I ended up taking my little Honda Civic on some fairly dicey rural back roads to my Aunt's house for a Christmas Eve party. I spent the whole trip figuring out the best angles and speed to take to get the car up and down small hills that were clearly covered in ice. I passed a couple of vehicles that had spun off into ditches. One was a big 4x4 truck that I am sure had AWD.

Is AWD a wonderful thing that will assist a driver during poor driving conditions? Maybe. Do you need to use your brain to determine how to drive in those conditions? Absolutely.

And yes, I made it to the party and back just fine in my little FWD car with no snow tires, but it took reasoning and judgement to do it.

 

[Conn]

I agree.

Thanks.. I didn't think I was being over the top by ranting about driving in conditions other than dry roadway. I see it may have bothered people (blah) but I did not intend that.

 

[vroom]

Bragging about driving in dangerous conditions on bad tires on public roads, using implied superior driving experience and skill to justify the irresponsible behavior and using the words common sense in the same paragraph...

You know, I actually agree, AWD is no substitute for a brain, but neither is being full of one's self...

 

[Conn]

Well it is rather sad and annoying that I should have to further explain myself and clarify BUT, I was neither bragging nor implying any type of superiority over anyone. I never put down anyone's driving style. Now for the irresponsible behavior by driving on less than top rated tires that have an unknown amount of miles on them. The tires are not bald but could use replacing soon. I could purchase new tires for the vehicle that I am getting rid of any day now but unfortunately I am trying to save the money and not buy tires, because like I said I am getting rid of the car.. Risky? Well that is debatable and good for you if you never had to stretch life out of something a little bit more to avoid throwing money away. Anyhow... full of myself or irresponsible, I am not. Thanks though. Maybe if I was driving at an unreasonable speed or attempting to pass people in such conditions yes then both of those things would apply. I wrote an opinion of how some people seem to interpret AWD vehicles. People think they are unstoppable because they have a feature which helps during slick driving conditions. I then explained how it takes more than just an AWD vehicle to get through said conditions. I am not sure how that is arguable?