Article about diesel

[buckbumble]

Not at all. I'm assuming there will be an up to $2.8k premium for getting the diesel up front, which is what some others have speculated in previous diesel threads. If the diesel was the same price as the gas engine, why would I be talking about a break-even point? That would be like a dream come true. 30% greater fuel economy and 65% more torque for the same purchase price, who would turn that down?

As much as I want this CUV, in Canada the MSRP on a GT is $37,000 before freight and taxes not including the $1,600 tech package for Bose audio, satellite radio and hud, now add a few thousand to make this a diesel and it just priced me out of the market.

At least it was nice to dream for awhile.

 

[Xeler8ing]

As much as I want this CUV, in Canada the MSRP on a GT is $37,000 before freight and taxes not including the $1,600 tech package for Bose audio, satellite radio and hud, now add a few thousand to make this a diesel and it just priced me out of the market.

At least it was nice to dream for awhile.

Our top range CX-5 Akera Diesel AWD is AUD $54736.00

 

[xtrailman]

In the UK it is recommended you do around 20K miles a year to gain a financial advantage.
Diesel is more expensive, and the car is dearer to buy.

I buy one just for towing, but we don't even get the 2.5NA petrol in the UK. I would certainly look at the 2.5T petrol if it was offered as i only do 7K short trips a year.

Someone double check my math:

If you can get 10 more mpgs then that's about 150 more mils per Tank fill up.
If filling up your tank 2x per month that 3,600 more miles per year.
That's a little more than 3 months worth of mileage or about $240 worth of gas savings for me It would take about 10 years to break even for me.

Then again I wouldn't be buying it to save money anyhow but rather its 300lb torque. The fact it gets good real mileage numbers would be the side benefit.

 

[xtrailman]

In the UK all trims get the manual, auto is an extra option

Only model here that gets a manual transmission is base model 2.0L Maxx. Diesels come with auto transmissions.

 

[Xeler8ing]

In the UK all trims get the manual, auto is an extra option

Because manuals are more popular there

 

[xtrailman]

Not to mention a diesel engine requires a brake vacuum pump, which failed under warranty on my 2013 car.
And don't expect a ten year life out of a DPF.

More to go wrong could mean lower reliability.

One reason why the auto isnt popular in the UK, not to mention it costs another approx 1300 to buy, my model is now over 33,000 list for the new model!!

And that's assuming there's no extra cost for the diesel engine up front. Usually they are more expensive because they're more heavy duty in construction and have the extra emissions equipment.

 

[Ziggity]

Because manuals are more popular there

... And we're taught to drive properly

 

[xtrailman]

Stats are now out in the UK, new model is around 40kg heavier, slower and thirstier than my 2015, with no power increase.

 

[Xeler8ing]

... And we're taught to drive properly

(rofl2)

Stats are now out in the UK, new model is around 40kg heavier, slower and thirstier than my 2015, with no power increase.

Over here the diesel is 39-45kg heavier than the previous model.

Power is unchanged 129KW/420NM

0-100kmh for base model is 8.7 seconds

Fuel consumption up a little:

2016 model

City: 6.7 L/100km
Hwy: 5.1 L/100km
Combined: 5.7 L/100km

2017 model:

City: 7.0 L/100km
Hwy: 5.5 L/100km
Combined: 6.0 L/100km

 

[xtrailman]

That would be a neat trick increasing MPG by adding extra weight, these government figures are a joke in the UK, soon to be replaced, there about as honest as VW software.

 

[Alan444]

I see a few posts where people are offsetting the higher purchase cost of the diesel model against the slight fuel savings, thus taking 10 years to re-coup the extra cash - and you're probably correct if you intend to keep the car for that long. However, if you only intend to own the car for a couple/few years then bear in mind that it's re-sale value should be pro-rata increased too.

In the UK, a new (or newish) car loses around 25% of it's current value per year, so hypothetically (but bear in mind I haven't researched the prices or the depreciation rate in the US):

Buy a petrol model at $25k and lose $6250 in year one and $4687 in year two, a total loss of $10937. Sale price $14063
Buy the diesel at $28k and lose $7000 in year one and $5250 in year two, a total loss of $12250. Sale price $15750.

This means that when you sell - you get back $1687 of your original extra $3k cost, therefore it only cost an extra $1313 over the two years. Now add the fuel savings and perhaps the figures stack up a bit better.

However, FWIW I currently own a diesel model and there are so many horror stories around that I won't own it without a Mazda warranty. Mine had only done 6k miles since it's last service (the service intervals are 12500 miles here) when the oil pressure warning came on and it went to Mazda where they changed the oil & filter and updated the software. For me it doesn't instill much confidence of what's going to happen in 5900 miles from now. If the 2.5 petrol was available over here I'd probably own that instead, and have a better conscience of less problems.

edit... but on the plus side - the diesel is a fantastic car to drive, is refined, and has bags of grunt at every occasion. It's a pity I don't trust the longevity of the engine.

 

[Xeler8ing]

That would be a neat trick increasing MPG by adding extra weight, these government figures are a joke in the UK, soon to be replaced, there about as honest as VW software.

All official figures are a joke. Mazda say though real world consumption figures are better than before, at least for the petrol engine

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

[xtrailman]

Agree with your post re the oil dilution and not owning a mazda diesel out of warranty.
A couple of 2017 owners from Austrailia denied this was possible, and have since blocked my posts, probably because they can't take the fact that their engine choice may be flawed.

My dilution is at the moment less than the 2013 car i had, but still there at just over 8K miles from new, around a 4mm rise, problem is i have no idea if the engine has burnt any oil, which can happen on any engine, so the dilution could be worst than first appears.

At least you had the low oil pressure come up to warn you, hopefully no lasting damage has been done.

You also have a point re the residuals in the UK, not sure about the US, but there is as you know a lot of anti diesel publicity out there now, with people who tow caravans even looking at turbo petrol. Me included.

I see a few posts where people are offsetting the higher purchase cost of the diesel model against the slight fuel savings, thus taking 10 years to re-coup the extra cash - and you're probably correct if you intend to keep the car for that long. However, if you only intend to own the car for a couple/few years then bear in mind that it's re-sale value should be pro-rata increased too.

In the UK, a new (or newish) car loses around 25% of it's current value per year, so hypothetically (but bear in mind I haven't researched the prices or the depreciation rate in the US):

Buy a petrol model at $25k and lose $6250 in year one and $4687 in year two, a total loss of $10937. Sale price $14063
Buy the diesel at $28k and lose $7000 in year one and $5250 in year two, a total loss of $12250. Sale price $15750.

This means that when you sell - you get back $1687 of your original extra $3k cost, therefore it only cost an extra $1313 over the two years. Now add the fuel savings and perhaps the figures stack up a bit better.

However, FWIW I currently own a diesel model and there are so many horror stories around that I won't own it without a Mazda warranty. Mine had only done 6k miles since it's last service (the service intervals are 12500 miles here) when the oil pressure warning came on and it went to Mazda where they changed the oil & filter and updated the software. For me it doesn't instill much confidence of what's going to happen in 5900 miles from now. If the 2.5 petrol was available over here I'd probably own that instead, and have a better conscience of less problems.

edit... but on the plus side - the diesel is a fantastic car to drive, is refined, and has bags of grunt at every occasion. It's a pity I don't trust the longevity of the engine.

 

[Red MC]

However, FWIW I currently own a diesel model and there are so many horror stories around that I won't own it without a Mazda warranty. Mine had only done 6k miles since it's last service (the service intervals are 12500 miles here) when the oil pressure warning came on and it went to Mazda where they changed the oil & filter and updated the software. For me it doesn't instill much confidence of what's going to happen in 5900 miles from now.

Did it only happen once? How long have you owned the car?

Dilution of the lubricating oil with diesel fuel is one concern I have about buying a diesel car. I know it was a common problem with the Skyactiv-D in the beginning, but haven't heard much about it since the software change. I understand the fuel gets into the oil sump during the DPF regeneration cycle, and if DPF regeneration occurs infrequently the fuel will evaporate or flash off. But if your normal driving pattern consists of frequent short trips, in which the DPF doesn't have a chance to heat up to its self-cleaning temperature, then the regeneration cycle will kick in more frequently resulting in higher fuel consumption and more fuel contamination of the oil. The software change modified the control scheme for DPF regeneration, but I don't know specifically how.

I also know that the problem depends on the amount of biodiesel in the fuel blend. Biodiesel has a higher boiling point, flash point, and lower vapor pressure than petroleum diesel, so when it gets into the oiling system it won't evaporate or flash off. So if you're filling your vehicle with higher biodiesel blends, expect to see oil levels rising faster.

If/when the Skyactiv-D comes here, I'm waiting to see what Mazda says about biodiesel blends. VW's position used to be that they wouldn't honor the warranty on emissions equipment if you used fuel with more than 5% biodiesel (B5). But our government subsidizes diesel blends with >10% biodiesel, which is just another handout to farm states and incentive for farmers to grow fuel crops instead of food. If corn ethanol wasn't bad enough, now we subsidize soy and rapeseed farmed for biodiesel. Anyway, finding low biodiesel content fuel (B5) might become hard in the future. I see a lot of pumps now with a disclaimer saying 5-20%, and the biodiesel lobby is heavily promoting B20.

 

[CX-5um]

If doing oil changes at every 7k miles would you have "less" concerns about the oil rise?

 

[xtrailman]

Definitely or less if practical. I do 7K ayear and have never seen low pressure warning, the oil rise assuming I'm not burning oil, is around 8 mm by then. And regular weekly oil level checks, sounds an hassle but it's become routine for me now.

If doing oil changes at every 7k miles would you have "less" concerns about the oil rise?

 

[xtrailman]

Diesel oil does not evaporate like petrol does.
As for the software update i believe all it did was increase the time between the timed regens.
We do have bio fuel added.

Did it only happen once? How long have you owned the car?

Dilution of the lubricating oil with diesel fuel is one concern I have about buying a diesel car. I know it was a common problem with the Skyactiv-D in the beginning, but haven't heard much about it since the software change. I understand the fuel gets into the oil sump during the DPF regeneration cycle, and if DPF regeneration occurs infrequently the fuel will evaporate or flash off. But if your normal driving pattern consists of frequent short trips, in which the DPF doesn't have a chance to heat up to its self-cleaning temperature, then the regeneration cycle will kick in more frequently resulting in higher fuel consumption and more fuel contamination of the oil. The software change modified the control scheme for DPF regeneration, but I don't know specifically how.

I also know that the problem depends on the amount of biodiesel in the fuel blend. Biodiesel has a higher boiling point, flash point, and lower vapor pressure than petroleum diesel, so when it gets into the oiling system it won't evaporate or flash off. So if you're filling your vehicle with higher biodiesel blends, expect to see oil levels rising faster.

If/when the Skyactiv-D comes here, I'm waiting to see what Mazda says about biodiesel blends. VW's position used to be that they wouldn't honor the warranty on emissions equipment if you used fuel with more than 5% biodiesel (B5). But our government subsidizes diesel blends with >10% biodiesel, which is just another handout to farm states and incentive for farmers to grow fuel crops instead of food. If corn ethanol wasn't bad enough, now we subsidize soy and rapeseed farmed for biodiesel. Anyway, finding low biodiesel content fuel (B5) might become hard in the future. I see a lot of pumps now with a disclaimer saying 5-20%, and the biodiesel lobby is heavily promoting B20.

 

[CX-5um]

Definitely or less if practical. I do 7K ayear and have never seen low pressure warning, the oil rise assuming I'm not burning oil, is around 8 mm by then. And regular weekly oil level checks, sounds an hassle but it's become routine for me now.

No hassle for me as I live in an extreme environment anyways. Heat and sandstorms. I change oil and do rotations every 7k miles which for me is every 6 months. I've owned two other turbo cars in the past. Transitioning into a modern turbo diesel platform would be easy for me.

 

[Red MC]

If doing oil changes at every 7k miles would you have "less" concerns about the oil rise?

I would be somewhat less concerned about oil dilution, but also somewhat disappointed about wasting oil. 7k miles is a pretty short oil change interval by 2017 standards.

Diesel oil does not evaporate like petrol does.
As for the software update i believe all it did was increase the time between the timed regens.
We do have bio fuel added.

All liquids evaporate. Petrol has a high vapor pressure at room temperature and a low boiling point range (35-200C) so it evaporates quickly, even at low temperatures. Diesel has a low vapor pressure at room temperature and higher boiling point (180-350C), so it evaporates slowly at low temperatures. But oil temperature is typically maintained at around 105-110C (just above the boiling point of water) where it does evaporate somewhat quicker. Check out the graph at the end of this brochure, it illustrates what's going on between DPF regen cycles:

http://www.deltabeam.net/sites/default/files/pdfs/D-Lube_fuel-dilution_technical-brochure_DSi_june2012.pdf

What is your experience with oil level rise?

 

[CX-5um]

I would be somewhat less concerned about oil dilution, but also somewhat disappointed about wasting oil. 7k miles is a pretty short oil change interval by 2017 standards.

Aside from Amsoil I wouldn't go off of Oil Company claims. Take for example Mobil1's current campaign. Guaranteed to last 1 year but lets take a closer look into their FAQs for details.:

These claims relate to all typical consumer driving conditions, excluding those mentioned below. In other words, if you drive under normal conditions and use Mobil 1 Extended Performance synthetic oil in your vehicle, the oil is guaranteed to protect your engine for 15,000 miles. We also recommend that drivers consult their owners manual while their vehicle is under warranty, and follow the guidelines set forth there. Additionally, we recommend that if consumers drive routinely in severe conditions that they follow the oil change interval recommended in their owner's manual for severe conditions. We define "severe conditions" as:

Racing or commercial applications
Frequent towing or hauling
Extremely dusty or dirty conditions


So since I live in an extremely hot dusty environment plus I also rev and drive my cars hard. Mobil recommends me to consult Mazda's user manual and further refers me to the "severe condition" interval. Also too is Mobil1's labs do testing in a controlled indoor environment. It does not take into account dirt and other particles that enters the engine.

Blackstone labs results are very telling of real world oil lifespan.