Poll 2.5T Coolant Leak/Engine Replacement

[youri]

The TSB clearly stated the possible cause of the cracked cylinder head. You drove over bumps too many times ⋯


DESCRIPTION
Some vehicles may have coolant leaks at the cylinder head around the exhaust manifold (as shown below). There may be cracks at the stud bolt hole (1) or at the outside of the exhaust manifold (2).

Cracks may be caused by:
• Deformation of the exhaust manifold during usage causing unexpected force to certain areas of the cylinder head.
• Residual stress generated during production in the cylinder head material may be greater than expected. The
external force from the exhaust system when driving over bumps may cause unexpected force to certain areas of the cylinder head.

To eliminate this concern, the design of the exhaust manifold gasket and the cylinder head has been modified to reduce the force on the cylinder head.
Customers having this concern should have their vehicle repaired using the following repair procedure.

That TSB has been slightly updated since. It seems like in addition to bumps on the road, the thermal cycle may have an impact. It now states:

DESCRIPTION
Some vehicles may have coolant leaks at the cylinder head around the exhaust manifold (as shown below). There may be cracks at the stud bolt hole (1) or at the outside of the exhaust manifold flange (2) on the cylinder head.

Cracks may be caused by:
• Expansion characteristics of the exhaust manifold during usage causing unexpected force to certain areas of the cylinder head.
• Residual stress generated during production in the cylinder head material may be greater than expected. The
external force from the exhaust system when driving over bumps may cause unexpected force to certain areas of the cylinder head.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2023/MC-10232269-0001.pdf

 

[carshark]

The TSB clearly stated the possible cause of the cracked cylinder head. You drove over bumps too many times ⋯


DESCRIPTION
Some vehicles may have coolant leaks at the cylinder head around the exhaust manifold (as shown below). There may be cracks at the stud bolt hole (1) or at the outside of the exhaust manifold (2).

Cracks may be caused by:
• Deformation of the exhaust manifold during usage causing unexpected force to certain areas of the cylinder head.
• Residual stress generated during production in the cylinder head material may be greater than expected. The
external force from the exhaust system when driving over bumps may cause unexpected force to certain areas of the cylinder head.

To eliminate this concern, the design of the exhaust manifold gasket and the cylinder head has been modified to reduce the force on the cylinder head.
Customers having this concern should have their vehicle repaired using the following repair procedure.

Well if it is caused by unexpected forces driving over bumps then it should not be covered by any warranty…. In my humble opinion the TSB is written by some legal team trying to avoid loosing in a class action lawsuit.

 

[yrwei52]

I have seen many 2021 Cx-5 and Cx-9 s in Autotrader that are in the affected range. probably they are early 2021 models manufactured around the end of 2020

The TSB says it’s applicable to 2020 CX-9’s and prior produced before Jun. 9, 2020. There can’t any 2021’s produced before that date. Hope @wineng can verify the assembly date of his 2021 CX-9.

I hope @wineng‘s 2021 CX-9 won’t be the case of cracked cylinder head with updated head and gasket!

 

[youri]

Well 2021 model started selling in September 2020, so it is not im possible that some 2021 were manufactured before 9 June 2020. But it is odd they wouldn’t have mentioned the 2021 model year if that was the case.

 

[salihss]

@wineng Hi Wineng If you don`t mind Could you share your CX9`s VIN or at least the last six digit of its VIN please?

 

[wineng]

The TSB says it’s for 2016 ~ 2020 CX-9, but you have a 2021 CX-9? What is your manufacture date on the door jamb label?

All 2.5T produced after Jun. 9, 2020 should have revised cylinder head and exhaust manifold gasket based on the TSB.

Sorry, you are correct, the TSB was for the oil consumption issue. The head replacement is being done under warranty.

 

[yrwei52]

Sorry, you are correct, the TSB was for the oil consumption issue. The head replacement is being done under warranty.

So you’re saying your 2021 CX-9 is in the VIN range of oil consumption TSB:

2021 CX-9 (US/Canada spec 2.5T with 10.25" center display) with VINS from JM3TC******509027 - 541070 (produced from October 6, 2020 to September 13, 2021)

But it is out of the VIN range of cracked head TSB:

2016-2020 CX-9 SKYACTIV-G 2.5T vehicles with VINs lower than JM3TC******422801 (produced before Jun. 9, 2020)

So this means your 2021 CX-9 with updated cylinder head and exhaust manifold on your 2.4T still encountered head cracking issue? That definitely isn’t a good news to Mazda and those 2.5aT owners. The “fix” isn’t good enough to prevent head cracking!

 

[carshark]

So you’re saying your 2021 CX-9 is in the VIN range of oil consumption TSB:

2021 CX-9 (US/Canada spec 2.5T with 10.25" center display) with VINS from JM3TC******509027 - 541070 (produced from October 6, 2020 to September 13, 2021)

But it is out of the VIN range of cracked head TSB:

2016-2020 CX-9 SKYACTIV-G 2.5T vehicles with VINs lower than JM3TC******422801 (produced before Jun. 9, 2020)

So this means your 2021 CX-9 with updated cylinder head and exhaust manifold on your 2.4T still encountered head cracking issue? That definitely isn’t a good news to Mazda and those 2.5aT owners. The “fix” isn’t good enough to prevent head cracking!

That is indeed bad news..

 

[yrwei52]

Well 2021 model started selling in September 2020, so it is not im possible that some 2021 were manufactured before 9 June 2020. But it is odd they wouldn’t have mentioned the 2021 model year if that was the case.

Based on the oil consumption TSB, the US 2021 CX-9 started assembling on Oct. 6, 2020.

 

[yrwei52]

@wineng, if you could, please post your dealer invoices on oil consumption TSB fix and cracked cylinder head TSB fix under warranty on your 2021 CX-5 GT with 42K km / 26,098 miles at your earliest convenience. Thank you!

 

[wineng]

So you’re saying your 2021 CX-9 is in the VIN range of oil consumption TSB:

2021 CX-9 (US/Canada spec 2.5T with 10.25" center display) with VINS from JM3TC******509027 - 541070 (produced from October 6, 2020 to September 13, 2021)

But it is out of the VIN range of cracked head TSB:

2016-2020 CX-9 SKYACTIV-G 2.5T vehicles with VINs lower than JM3TC******422801 (produced before Jun. 9, 2020)

So this means your 2021 CX-9 with updated cylinder head and exhaust manifold on your 2.4T still encountered head cracking issue? That definitely isn’t a good news to Mazda and those 2.5aT owners. The “fix” isn’t good enough to prevent head cracking!

This is correct. The only other explanation I can think of is when they replaced the head gasket (when they were fixing the oil issue), they did something to the head when assembling back... maybe weakened it?

I would not be surprised if eventually the TSB includes the 2021 year as well.

I just found out they need more time and I wont get it back until Monday or Tuesday.

 

[youri]

Based on the oil consumption TSB, the US 2021 CX-9 started assembling on Oct. 6, 2020.

That is not what the TSB says. It says that 2021 model produced between those dates (october 6 2020 to sept 13 2021) are affected by the problem, but 2021 models produced outside those dates are not.

 

[yrwei52]

That is not what the TSB says. It says that 2021 model produced between those dates (october 6 2020 to sept 13 2021) are affected by the problem, but 2021 models produced outside those dates are not.

Then why the cracked head TSB doesn’t include 2021 MY CX-9 if Mazda started selling 2021 CX-9 in Sep. 2020? It’s rare Mazda starts selling the new MY models in Sep. previous year. Usually it’s around Nov. or Dec. after the LA Auto Show. And remember if Mazda really started selling 2021 CX-9 in Sep: 2020, that means the actual car is assembled in July almost 2 months prior due to the transportation and custom time which usually would take 2 months from Japan.

 

[yrwei52]

This is correct. The only other explanation I can think of is when they replaced the head gasket (when they were fixing the oil issue), they did something to the head when assembling back... maybe weakened it?

I would not be surprised if eventually the TSB includes the 2021 year as well.

I just found out they need more time and I wont get it back until Monday or Tuesday.

Mazda has developed a special service tool so that they don’t need to remove the cylinder head to replace those inferior valve stem seals for oil consumption issue.

Your case on cracked head is unique. The cracked head TSB stated Mazda has updated cylinder head and exhaust manifold to prevent the head cracking after Jun. 9, 2020. Your 2021 CX-9 was built long after that, and should have updated head and gasket. A cracked head on your 2.5T could indicate Mazda’s fix isn’t effective to prevent head cracking.

Keep us posted.

 

[youri]

Then why the cracked head TSB doesn’t include 2021 MY CX-9 if Mazda started selling 2021 CX-9 in Sep. 2020? It’s rare Mazda starts selling the new MY models in Sep. previous year. Usually it’s around Nov. or Dec. after the LA Auto Show. And remember if Mazda really started selling 2021 CX-9 in Sep: 2020, that means the actual car is assembled in July almost 2 months prior due to the transportation and custom time which usually would take 2 months from Japan.

That’s what i said, it is odd that the TSB doesn’t mention 2021 MY, but the VIN and production date is what is important on the TSB. Even if they made a mistake on the model year in the TSB, they wouldn’t care that much, because the other factors are more important. All i am saying is don’t hold your hand on the fire for the model year on the TSB. If it is within the production date and the VIN range, then it is at risks. And like you said, it takes a lot of time sometimes from production date to arrival and sale at the dealer. I wouldn’t be that surprised if a September or October car was built in June.

As far as the start of model year sales, I am just going by the articles I found online:
Last sentence of this article: Mazda Canada has announced pricing, changes for 2021 CX-9 | Car News | Auto123

This article from 18 august 2020 that say the 2021 will be in dealership next month: 2021 Mazda CX-9: Exhilarating Elegance

The mazda america press release at the same date says the same thing 2021 Mazda CX-9: Exhilarating Elegance:


it arrived in September 2020.

 

[wineng]

@wineng, if you could, please post your dealer invoices on oil consumption TSB fix and cracked cylinder head TSB fix under warranty on your 2021 CX-5 GT with 42K km / 26,098 miles at your earliest convenience. Thank you!

I attached the invoice for the oil issue. Don't know why they did an alignment as well.

There was also coolant in the oil, so they changed the gasket head.

Once I get the cx9 back, I will post the invoice for the head.

 

[yrwei52]

I attached the invoice for the oil issue. Don't know why they did an alignment as well.

There was also coolant in the oil, so they changed the gasket head.

Once I get the cx9 back, I will post the invoice for the head.

Here is the related TSB for oil consumption issue on 2021 CX-9 with 2.5T:

TSB No. 01-003/23: Engine Oil Level Warning Light On with DTC P250F:00 Due To Low Engine Oil Level

On page 3 we’ll see 2 parts listed for the TSB job:

PY8W-10-1F5 Exhaust valve seal X 8
PY8W-10-235 Cylinder head cover gasket X 1

Your invoice is also listed these 2 parts and p/n 5555-CL-001R Anti-freeze X 4. There’s nothing on the invoice which indicates the cylinder head gasket has been replaced due to coolant in oil. In other words, your dealer has never removed the cylinder head and replaced the cylinder head gasket.

The other thing which is suspicious to me on this work order is the use of p/n 5555-CL-001R Anti-freeze. It’s a Mazda “Warr” coolant (? warranty coolant?) but it doesn’t say it’s a FL22 coolant. The price is so low comparing to normal FL22 which to me it isn’t the required FL22 coolant!

The real Mazda FL22 coolant:

This oil consumption repair based on the TSB for your 2021 CX-9 GT by your Mazda dealer is very disappointing and has full of question marks! And that 4-wheel alignment job is very strange and out of line!

BTW, do you mind to check the production date on the door jamb label?

 

[wineng]

Here is the related TSB for oil consumption issue on 2021 CX-9 with 2.5T:

TSB No. 01-003/23: Engine Oil Level Warning Light On with DTC P250F:00 Due To Low Engine Oil Level

View attachment 323403
View attachment 323404
View attachment 323406

On page 3 we’ll see 2 parts listed for the TSB job:

PY8W-10-1F5 Exhaust valve seal X 8
PY8W-10-235 Cylinder head cover gasket X 1

Your invoice is also listed these 2 parts and p/n 5555-CL-001R Anti-freeze X 4. There’s nothing on the invoice which indicates the cylinder head gasket has been replaced due to coolant in oil. In other words, your dealer has never removed the cylinder head and replaced the cylinder head gasket.

The other thing which is suspicious to me on this work order is the use of p/n 5555-CL-001R Anti-freeze. It’s a Mazda “Warr” coolant (? warranty coolant?) but it doesn’t say it’s a FL22 coolant. The price is so low comparing to normal FL22 which to me it isn’t the required FL22 coolant!

View attachment 323407
View attachment 323408
View attachment 323409


The real Mazda FL22 coolant:

View attachment 323410

This oil consumption repair based on the TSB for your 2021 CX-9 GT by your Mazda dealer is very disappointing and has full of question marks! And that 4-wheel alignment job is very strange and out of line!

BTW, do you mind to check the production date on the door jamb label?

Is there anyway to know the difference between the coolants? Different colour? The one they put in is a light green colour.

Can't check the door jam as the vehicle is still at the dealer for the head replacement.

 

[yrwei52]

Is there anyway to know the difference between the coolants? Different colour? The one they put in is a light green colour.

Can't check the door jam as the vehicle is still at the dealer for the head replacement.

For Mazda FL22 coolant i’d say it’s in green/bluish color so it’s hard to describe on paper. Since you’re in Canada the p/n for Mazda FL22 coolant is different from the US, 0000-88-AFFL-22A instead of 0000-77-508F-20.

If I were you I’d take the invoice and talk to the service manager or even general manager questioning the dealer why they didn’t replace the cylinder head gasket and cylinder head at the first place when they spotted the coolant in oil? And why they didn’t use required Mazda FL22 coolant and show them the difference on the part number. I’d also ask them why they did the 4 wheel alignment for unknown reason which isn’t mentioned in 2 TSBs.

It won’t hurt to contact Mazda Canada for the whole issues you’ve encountered. Ask them why your 2021 CX-9 GT is having cracked head problem even thought it has updated cylinder head and exhaust manifold gasket based on the TSB?

 

[Fruitwolf]

This cracked cylinder head stuff is starting to spook me. I’ve got a 2018 with 86k miles. So far, no issues other than water pump replaced and a new dash screen.