197.6whp @ 8250 rpm...NA...
- Thread starter Installshield 2
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Installshield 2
Gothenburg Superiority
The headwork was done by some engineers at penn state for me...just some friends, but guys with more engine building experience than I had...I built the bottem end myself, they did the head...sk8007 said:
the cams were just uncut blanks from AWR that were customed lathed by those guys...I will have to dig up the specs, I don't remember if I ever posted them...they were well aware of my hp goals, and built the head accordingly...
the exhaust system is only temp right now, but it using a modified bosal header from a Probe 2.0...a 2.375" cat-less midpipe, and a 2.375" custom cat-back with a simple magnaflow muffle welded on the end...loud as s***...but I couldn't use the stock system with this...I have a Mazdaspeed 4-2-1 JDM factory header ordered, and a Racing beat was ordered on Wednesday... (which is why I used 2.375" custom piping in the first place...thats the RB size...that is the only exhaust I would consider because it is fairly quiet)...yet another example of how you do not need a 3" exhaust on an NA small displacement engine...
The only part I ordered for the head was the springs...so I am assuming they are utilizing the same locks, retainers, tappets, etc...but I will ask them in the morning just in case they came up with something custom in the lab...
gas used was 92 octane from Sheetz...a fairly large mid atlantic chain that seems to have decent gasoline. all dyno runs were done in 3rd gear, and the dyno is equipped with a torque converter...so we entered the exact third gear ratio/final drive into the computer and it adjusts the numbers according (torque is affected by gear ratio...hp is not...but on a machine that only measures torque and then derives hp, that is important...)
A/F was held tight around 12.7 near max v.e. , so roughly 4,000 rpm...then leaned out slightly up to 13.1:1 to redline...
Note though that this was utilizing a high load closed loop system by using a Wideband o2 sensor w/ a knock sensor too...since the computer was self learning, it sort of did that number on its own...it drastically shortened the tuning time...it pung once on the first pull when I first rolled onto the gas and the entire system went into a safe mode...we reset it with the laptop and the datalog showed that it was holding stoich until 3,000rpm!!! where the engine was already making over 100lb/ft of torque...I am lucky it didn't scatter right there...
but after some minor adjustments to the closed loop control, we were able to get it to immediately richen at least slightly with throttle input...being that this thing is very prone to detonation with bad tuning, anyone doing this setup I would recommend NOT using high load closed loop for the street...Any ecu only has so many load "points" so once you factor the fuel needed for each one...its a done deal...High load closed loop only changes something after it is registered in the exhaust gas...so if something is wrong, there is at least 3-4 engine cycles before it is read by the computer...that is what I ran into...for the street...I will not be doing that...
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Saint-Knight
Member
- :
- 2001 Protege ES
so are you driving this car right now? u should make this thread sticky and explain "how-to" and share with people.
P.s. I never expect that Fs-de can get such a good crazy number in N/A
How did you make own ECU?
P.s. I never expect that Fs-de can get such a good crazy number in N/A
How did you make own ECU?
zoomzoom02
Member
- :
- Protege ES
Bravo!! Man, thats a lot of work, keep it up! Definitely keeping tabs for the sheets and vids.
Installshield 2
Gothenburg Superiority
Saint-Knight said:
No I am not driving the car right now...The ECU is a regular M8 I believe, a type of motec standalone. It was an older model that a friend just had lying around for his EVO build...we just built a custom harness for it to use quickly for my car...Since the alternator and ignition systems our cars are equipped with are very tricky, we simply by passed all of that...he had an MSD 4 ignitor system...so we installed that which worked fine with the motec...
he is an electrical engineering major, so this wiring stuff is basically all he does all day...he figured out how to run our stock injectors, ran the wires with clips we cut from another stock wiring harness...and everything worked really well...again this custom harness only used something like 14 sensors total...and drained entirely off the battery...so it is no where near street ready yet...
I am getting a Microtech ECU soon enough to complete this...that is the last thing I need, which I will buy hopefully this May...then its just tuning...and hoping...
SilverBulletES
Member
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- '90 MX-5, '00 328i
(burnout) (crazy)
65racecoupe
Member
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- Turbo (soon) Yellow 2002 P5
Did you even port the head or mess with the cams? (edit - didn't read post 22)
That is pretty cool. Hopefully you can translate that power into something for the street.
That is pretty cool. Hopefully you can translate that power into something for the street.
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- '08 Jetta; '10 Wrangler Unlimited
nice thread going here.....will be nice when you get this engine street ready! i am impressed with your numbers!
-R
-R
twilightprotege
Member
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- 2001 323 Astina SP20 (P5)
very nice mate!
bout time you got it in the car
and do i hear 13's coming? 2.5 60ft and a 14.3.....get my launches happening (2.0's) and you're there already!
bout time you got it in the car
and do i hear 13's coming? 2.5 60ft and a 14.3.....get my launches happening (2.0's) and you're there already!
Very nice, can't wait to see the end product to this. To bad you couldn't use more store bought items (mam crank and pistons, rods). I would like to see what this little stroker kit would do with the head work you have. Why did you use the crown pistons?
Installshield 2
Gothenburg Superiority
Hughes412 said:
well I just made it myself to save money, and because it was part of a design class I had that semester...So I basically was graded on the rods and pistons...
the pistons have small crowns because of moving the wrist pin origin nearly 8 mm up...this left less room for the oil and compression rings...so the ring lands are very small (small is powerful, but can be unreliable)...the crown is thin because of the channel I needed to add under for the small end of the rod to pivot correctly...its not super super thin or anything...just thinner than stock...but whatever, the pistons are stronger anyway...
Hughes412 said:
It is not a stroker kit, it is a long-rod kit. Longer rods do not increase stroke. The crank throw has to be increased either with a new crank or offset grinding the stock crank. Long-rod kits are great as they increase TDC dwell time thus promoting more complete combustion and using more of the combustion power. They increase the rod-ratio (which reduces friction, increases piston dwell time [mentioned above], and reduces piston speed), and lighten piston mass, all of which are good for power. They usually promote a much broader power range. Also, more detonation resistance (even with crowned/domed pistons). My last engine in the 'Stang was a long-rod 302 with 11.5:1 compression and it felt more like a 351 than a 302. It was ran on pump gas. People were amazed at the broad power (and peak as well). It was a bear to degree the cam though, since the piston set a TDC for quite a long time (you could turn the crank for quite a few degrees before it dropped).
It had a rod-ratio of 1.80.Installshield 2
Gothenburg Superiority
good post man...but I disagree with two aspects...it is true that longer rods raise the rod ratio and therefore lowering piston acceleration...but this does not affect piston speed, as in MPS...if that is not what you meant I apologize...but MPS is simply stroke X rpm...and those are the only factors...I didn't address that problem with my build...and therefore my MPS is extremely high with 92mm of stroke...but the parts are light, and the acceleration of the pistons was cut back...and the acceleration is far more destructive on the bottom end than the average speed of it...PR5Matt said:It is not a stroker kit, it is a long-rod kit. Longer rods do not increase stroke. The crank throw has to be increased either with a new crank or offset grinding the stock crank. Long-rod kits are great as they increase TDC dwell time thus promoting more complete combustion and using more of the combustion power. They increase the rod-ratio (which reduces friction, increases piston dwell time [mentioned above], and reduces piston speed), and lighten piston mass, all of which are good for power. They usually promote a much broader power range. Also, more detonation resistance (even with crowned/domed pistons). My last engine in the 'Stang was a long-rod 302 with 11.5:1 compression and it felt more like a 351 than a 302. It was ran on pump gas. People were amazed at the broad power (and peak as well). It was a bear to degree the cam though, since the piston set a TDC for quite a long time (you could turn the crank for quite a few degrees before it dropped).
also, lower piston acceleration is created by longer dwell times (more degrees of crank rotation while the piston is parked at TDC, or BDC)...this translates into LESS detonation resistance as far as I can tell...thats why low rod ratio engines usually can handle a few more degrees of ignition advance than a high rod raito geometery...
other wise you were dead on...
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That's what I meant (in first bold). Sorry for the wording.Installshield 2 said:
(Second bold): Yes and right. A short rod can help detonation resistance, but more inital timing might be needed to help power an combustion. A lot of the Engine Masters guys have had to go to a short rod because they are trying to make power with pump gas and 12.5:1 compression +, but with a long rod, generally less intial an total timing is needed for good combustion and power, and a lot of times the gains from the rods offset this "equalling out." Now in the case of your compression ratio, I can see the problem you may have with detonation. Again, I should have explained more and worded it better. Thanks for pointing that out. Sorry.
It is all in the combo, but I am glad you chose to go with the long rods.
With my long-rod domed pistoned 306 I ran as much as 36 degrees total timing with 93 octane, but I was "only" 11.5:1 compression.
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